Jbot Do Something Already Off-season 2019

[Derrico]

I like that second line in your first lineup.  If Mitts can take a bit of a step and take pressure off by moving him to wing that has the potential of being an enormous upgrade from last year.

[Thorner]

8 minutes ago, Derrico said:

I like that second line in your first lineup.  If Mitts can take a bit of a step and take pressure off by moving him to wing that has the potential of being an enormous upgrade from last year.

I really like that second line, too, and I think we'd have a very good top-6. If VO gets rolling on the third line and we've got three lines humming combined with Larsson on the shut-down, I think the forwards would be in good shape. 

It's not even unrealistic. Need to get that stop-gap 2C and a top-9 RW. It's 2 moves, and we were promised "roster surgery". 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Thorny

[dudacek]

I really want to see jumps from Olofsson, Thompson, Mittelstadt, Nylander and Pilut. I know we can’t count on it, but it isn’t unrealistic to think at least one or two can make the jump.

If we could add Donskoi to the middle six and a good Centre to the top six I think we can make the playoffs.

I think three balanced pairs (Dahlin/Bogo, McCabe/Montour, Pilut/Risto) is a ticket worth exploring. I’m good with a first line of Jack, Jeff and the kid that wins the training camp battle and I’m fine with a 3rd line that includes 3 of ERod/Okposo/Sheary/Casey/Donskoi, with one of those 5 joining Larry and Zemgus on the checking line and one of them joining Sam on the second line.

But to make it all work, they need a Sam-level player on line 2 and I don’t know how they are going to make it happen.

[Randall Flagg]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I really want to see jumps from Olofsson, Thompson, Mittelstadt, Nylander and Pilut. I know we can’t count on it, but it isn’t unrealistic to think at least one or two can make the jump.

If we could add Donskoi to the middle six and a good Centre to the top six I think we can make the playoffs.

I think three balanced pairs (Dahlin/Bogo, McCabe/Montour, Pilut/Risto) is a ticket worth exploring. I’m good with a first line of Jack, Jeff and the kid that wins the training camp battle and I’m fine with a 3rd line that includes 3 of ERod/Okposo/Sheary/Casey/Donskoi, with one of those 5 joining Larry and Zemgus on the checking line and one of them joining Sam on the second line.

 But to make it all work, they need a Sam-level player on line 2 and I don’t know how they are going to make it happen.

Two of those guys will be good NHLers for the bulk of the season. And we could get lucky and have more.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Two of those guys will be good NHLers for the bulk of the season. And we could get lucky and have more.

You should add Ruotsalainen to he list. He may be ready for the NHL or need just a short stint in the AHL.

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I really want to see jumps from Olofsson, Thompson, Mittelstadt, Nylander and Pilut. I know we can’t count on it, but it isn’t unrealistic to think at least one or two can make the jump.

If we could add Donskoi to the middle six and a good Centre to the top six I think we can make the playoffs.

I think three balanced pairs (Dahlin/Bogo, McCabe/Montour, Pilut/Risto) is a ticket worth exploring. I’m good with a first line of Jack, Jeff and the kid that wins the training camp battle and I’m fine with a 3rd line that includes 3 of ERod/Okposo/Sheary/Casey/Donskoi, with one of those 5 joining Larry and Zemgus on the checking line and one of them joining Sam on the second line.

But to make it all work, they need a Sam-level player on line 2 and I don’t know how they are going to make it happen.

This all definitely "fits" with the line-up I posted, pretty much to a "T", so seems as though we are on the same page. Haula was a Sam level player two seasons ago (hurt last year) and seems to have been available for a CJ Smith level player, so, there are guys. Stastny would basically be ideal.

The one thing I disagree on slightly is Donskoi, I think with Eichel and Skinner doing to heavy lifting on line one, Donskoi could play capably beside them. I believe he played some top 6 last year. He also provides nice insulation for the kids you mentioned vying for that potential top line spot: Donskoi could hold it down until VO takes it over. Whichever doesn't take the top line spot would fit perfectly on line 3. 

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Two of those guys will be good NHLers for the bulk of the season. And we could get lucky and have more.

Mittelstadt and Olofsson should be, and Pilut should be once he's back from his injury. Thompson has a chance. 

Nylander electing to not attend camp is whatever. I think he's traded. 

[Curt]

Just now, Thorny said:

Mittelstadt and Olofsson should be, and Pilut should be once he's back from his injury. Thompson has a chance. 

Nylander electing to not attend camp is whatever. I think he's traded. 

I don't think Nylander declined to attend.  I've heard that once you have 3 years North America pro experience, Sabres don't have you attend development camp.

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, Curtisp5286 said:

I don't think Nylander declined to attend.  I've heard that once you have 3 years North America pro experience, Sabres don't have you attend development camp.

I believe it's optional at that point. I read that he "elected" not to attend, given the option. I think he could have benefited from it. For one, prove an ability to stay on the ice. 

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I believe it's optional at that point. I read that he "elected" not to attend, given the option. I think he could have benefited from it. For one, prove an ability to stay on the ice. 

Hmm, if true, I'm not a fan of that.  Guy has not established himself as an NHL player, he probably shouldn't be turning down any opportunities to impress.  I agree that he very well could be moved.  I'm half expecting it.

[Thorner]

8 minutes ago, Curtisp5286 said:

Hmm, if true, I'm not a fan of that.  Guy has not established himself as an NHL player, he probably shouldn't be turning down any opportunities to impress.  I agree that he very well could be moved.  I'm half expecting it.

Ya, all the wording I've read from Vogl and others was that he "didn't need to" attend. He certainly could have, there are others there that have more than 3 camps. 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Thorny

[Curt]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ya, all the wording I've read from Vogl and others was that he "didn't need to" attend. He certainly could have, there are others there that have more than 3 camps. 

Well what I heard as a cut off was 3 pro seasons in North America, not 3 previous development camps.  I don’t think anyone else there has 3 or more such seasons.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Curtisp5286

[dudacek]

17 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This all definitely "fits" with the line-up I posted, pretty much to a "T", so seems as though we are on the same page. Haula was a Sam level player two seasons ago (hurt last year) and seems to have been available for a CJ Smith level player, so, there are guys. Stastny would basically be ideal.

The one thing I disagree on slightly is Donskoi, I think with Eichel and Skinner doing to heavy lifting on line one, Donskoi could play capably beside them. I believe he played some top 6 last year. He also provides nice insulation for the kids you mentioned vying for that potential top line spot: Donskoi could hold it down until VO takes it over. Whichever doesn't take the top line spot would fit perfectly on line 3. 

I think Donskoi can work on Jack’s line with his speed and defensive conscience. I don’t think he can produce more than 40ish points no matter where you put him and will frustrate us with his inability to convert. He just doesn’t have a high skill level.

Sam is a 1st line player, Haula is a 3rd liner, so I’d be shooting higher there. Stastny is more in line with where I was thinking, but I doubt he’s on the market. Haula, Miller and maybe one other support player dumped is more likely the Vegas move.

I know it’s a what have you done for me lately league, but is Stastny really better than Turris?

Turris is four years younger, a better skater and has been a better point producer prior to last year. Turris makes slightly less but has a longer term.

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ya, all the wording I've read from Vogl and others was that he "didn't need to" attend. He certainly could have, there are others there that have more 3 camps. 

Unless & until we hear directly from Botterill, Kreuger, or Nylander, my assumption will be that the Sabres asked him to / offered to let him attend and he declined.

Which is exactly how these things work according to the CBA.

[Thorner]

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think Donskoi can work on Jack’s line with his speed and defensive conscience. I don’t think he can produce more than 40ish points no matter where you put him and will frustrate us with his inability to convert. He just doesn’t have a high skill level.

Sam is a 1st line player, Haula is a 3rd liner, so I’d be shooting higher there. Stastny is more in line with where I was thinking, but I doubt he’s on the market. Haula, Miller and maybe one other support player dumped is more likely the Vegas move.

I know it’s a what have you done for me lately league, but is Stastny really better than Turris?

Turris is four years younger, a better skater and has been a better point producer prior to last year. Turris makes slightly less but has a longer term.

Ehh. 29 goals and 55 points in 76 games his last full year. Your bar for second line seems to be getting rather high, I think Haula is easily a 2nd line quality player, as a stop gap. Unless that year was a one-off. For CJ Smith or the like, I would have taken the chance. 

The second bolded, the term is what makes Stastny so appealing to me. I think what we need (desperately) is a stop-gap until our other young centres come along. I think we are strong organizationally at the position, just not for the coming season or two. 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Thorny

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

I think Donskoi can work on Jack’s line with his speed and defensive conscience. I don’t think he can produce more than 40ish points no matter where you put him and will frustrate us with his inability to convert. He just doesn’t have a high skill level.

Sam is a 1st line player, Haula is a 3rd liner, so I’d be shooting higher there. Stastny is more in line with where I was thinking, but I doubt he’s on the market. Haula, Miller and maybe one other support player dumped is more likely the Vegas move.

I know it’s a what have you done for me lately league, but is Stastny really better than Turris?

Turris is four years younger, a better skater and has been a better point producer prior to last year. Turris makes slightly less but has a longer term.

The Sabres need a player not on last year's roster to play C for what likely is 2 more seasons before Mittelstadt can take on that role.

Stastny may not be better than Turris, but he's signed for exactly that window and how to move on 3 seasons from now can be determined then.

Turris had a bad year last year and is under contract for 5 years (3 more than what the Sabres need).  If that fall off wasn't an aberration, that contract.could be a Moulson/Okposo level albatross.  Hoping we don't see Turris picked up this week unless a LOT of salary is retained.

[Thorner]

20 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Unless & until we hear directly from Botterill, Kreuger, or Nylander, my assumption will be that the Sabres asked him to / offered to let him attend and he declined.

Which is exactly how these things work according to the CBA.

I don't think we've seen him on the ice since that injury he had near the end of last year that was supposedly supposed to be short-term? Would have liked to see him. Wonder if he's healthy yet.

[Derrico]

Personally I’m fine with nylander assumingky training in Sweden than fly over for camp.  This is such a great week for rookies and second year guys to get a taste of what it takes and all of the resources available at their disposal.  Not sure what benefit that would really be for nylander.  It’s make it or break it time and if he feels training in Europe is best for his development in order to be ready for October than so be it.

[dudacek]

12 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ehh. 29 goals and 55 points in 76 games his last full year. Your bar for second line seems to be getting rather high, I think Haula is easily a 2nd line quality player, as a stop gap. Unless that year was a one-off. For CJ Smith or the like, I would have taken the chance. 

The second bolded, the term is what makes Stastny so appealing to me. I think what we need (desperately) is a stop-gap until our other young centres comes along. I think we are strong organizationally at the position, just not for the coming season or two. 

You know that Haula scored as many goals in that season as he did in any two other seasons combined?

He’s 28 and has 151 points in 357 games. I think there is less evidence that he is a 2nd line centre than there is Turris, who is 29 and who tends to average what Haula put up in an extreme outlier year.

Id rather the Sabres had picked up Haula at his contract for the price he went for than Turris at his contract for the same price, but I don’t think Haula has proven himself to be a 2nd line centre yet.

The Stastny argument is a good one. I hope he’s available on the cheap, but I doubt he’s available at all.

[Curt]

24 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Stastny is more in line with where I was thinking, but I doubt he’s on the market. Haula, Miller and maybe one other support player dumped is more likely the Vegas move.

 I know it’s a what have you done for me lately league, but is Stastny really better than Turris?

 Turris is four years younger, a better skater and has been a better point producer prior to last year. Turris makes slightly less but has a longer term.

 

15 minutes ago, Taro T said:

The Sabres need a player not on last year's roster to play C for what likely is 2 more seasons before Mittelstadt can take on that role.

Stastny may not be better than Turris, but he's signed for exactly that window and how to move on 3 seasons from now can be determined then.

Turris had a bad year last year and is under contract for 5 years (3 more than what the Sabres need).  If that fall off wasn't an aberration, that contract.could be a Moulson/Okposo level albatross.  Hoping we don't see Turris picked up this week unless a LOT of salary is retained.

I honestly think that we can give up on the idea of acquiring Stastny.  Vegas currently has Stastny, Karlsson, Eakin, and Glass at C.  They have Stanley Cup aspersions.  I don’t see how they can remove Stastny from that group and be ok at C.

They moved Haula.  They can get Clarkson on LTIR.  They can move Miller maybe (seems to be what might happen).  I think they would be under the cap then.  Right?

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Curtisp5286 said:

 

I honestly think that we can give up on the idea of acquiring Stastny.  Vegas currently has Stastny, Karlsson, Eakin, and Glass at C.  They have Stanley Cup aspersions.  I don’t see how they can remove Stastny from that group and be ok at C.

They moved Haula.  They can get Clarkson on LTIR.  They can move Miller maybe (seems to be what might happen).  I think they would be under the cap then.  Right?

That’s how I see it.

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

You know that Haula scored as many goals in that season as he did in any two other seasons combined?

He’s 28 and has 151 points in 357 games. I think there is less evidence that he is a 2nd line centre than there is Turris, who is 29 and who tends to average what Haula put up in an extreme outlier year.

Id rather the Sabres had picked up Haula at his contract for the price he went for than Turris at his contract for the same price, but I don’t think Haula has proven himself to be a 2nd line centre yet.

The Stastny argument is a good one. I hope he’s available on the cheap, but I doubt he’s available at all.

Comes down to this for me, too.

It'll also depend on who exactly Botterill does have in mind. I'd certainly take an unproven Haula over a run back of Mittelstadt or whoever at 2C. 

[Taro T]

26 minutes ago, Curtisp5286 said:

 

I honestly think that we can give up on the idea of acquiring Stastny.  Vegas currently has Stastny, Karlsson, Eakin, and Glass at C.  They have Stanley Cup aspersions.  I don’t see how they can remove Stastny from that group and be ok at C.

They moved Haula.  They can get Clarkson on LTIR.  They can move Miller maybe (seems to be what might happen).  I think they would be under the cap then.  Right?

Would agree that with them moving Haula and their other moves, the likelihood of moving Stastny is slim.

Maybe we'll get lucky and McPhee will pull a Regier and be so locked into a plan to move Stastny that he doesn't notice that conditions on the ground have changed and that move us no longer necessary.  Hey, we can hope, right?

[dudacek]

From Tim Graham’s Q&A in the atheletic

here is a feeling that Terry Pegula did not want an experienced GM and did not hire a hockey president because he wants to have the last word in all the player matters (trades, salary, etc). With a first-time GM and no president, Pegula is the guy who takes the last decision, and I think the abrupt and unfortunate Ryan O’Reilly trade it is on Pegula, not on Botts. What is your insight? — Sergiu S.

People I trust tell me this is inaccurate. In fact, Terry Pegula has been increasingly hands-off over the years with both the Sabres and Bills. He hires executives to do those jobs and lets them work without meddling.

Pegula has final say over every personnel move; that is any owner’s prerogative. But insight from those who know insist Pegula provides Sabres GM Jason Botterill and Bills GM Brandon Beane all the latitude and resources they wish.

Many folks are upset the Pegulas haven’t installed a hockey or football czar above Botterill or Beane, or haven’t hired another president since Russ Brandon’s firing. I don’t understand why this is a controversial issue. The term “president” isn’t consistently applied throughout sports. A president with one club might be what another team calls its general manager or its vice president of hockey operations. Some presidents handle only the business and carry zero sway on sports decisions. Botterill and Beane are in charge, so there’s no need for a president, no purpose for another layer in between either GM and the Pegulas

[Drunkard]

22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

From Tim Graham’s Q&A in the atheletic

There is a feeling that Terry Pegula did not want an experienced GM and did not hire a hockey president because he wants to have the last word in all the player matters (trades, salary, etc). With a first-time GM and no president, Pegula is the guy who takes the last decision, and I think the abrupt and unfortunate Ryan O’Reilly trade it is on Pegula, not on Botts. What is your insight? — Sergiu S.

People I trust tell me this is inaccurate. In fact, Terry Pegula has been increasingly hands-off over the years with both the Sabres and Bills. He hires executives to do those jobs and lets them work without meddling.

Pegula has final say over every personnel move; that is any owner’s prerogative. But insight from those who know insist Pegula provides Sabres GM Jason Botterill and Bills GM Brandon Beane all the latitude and resources they wish.

Many folks are upset the Pegulas haven’t installed a hockey or football czar above Botterill or Beane, or haven’t hired another president since Russ Brandon’s firing. I don’t understand why this is a controversial issue. The term “president” isn’t consistently applied throughout sports. A president with one club might be what another team calls its general manager or its vice president of hockey operations. Some presidents handle only the business and carry zero sway on sports decisions. Botterill and Beane are in charge, so there’s no need for a president, no purpose for another layer in between either GM and the Pegulas

Thanks for posting this but it makes everything clear as mud. If Pegula really is hands off and Botterill and Beane basically have autonomy as suggested they why was Botterill in such a hurry to trade Eeyore before the bonus was paid on July 1st? That contract was perfectly structured (by Tim Murray) to make it easy to move and extremely attractive to any and all budget teams each year after the bonus was paid on July 1st.