GASabresIUFAN Posted October 20, 2020 Report Posted October 20, 2020 44 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said: Yes -- I had listed the 7 years we've been rebuilding and figured I should include something of Murray's as well to show it's not just JBott handing out high picks in an effort to improve the current roster. Actually Jbot only traded away 1 st and 2 2nds, while acquiring 2 1sts and a 2nd. Jbot ultimately swapped many 3rd rd picks for 4th rd picks. It's TM who traded away a ton of top picks including 2 1sts in the deep 2015 draft and 5 2nd rd picks. TM acquired some of the picks at the tail end of the tank, but trading away 2 1st rd picks and 2 2nd rd picks in 2015 will haunt this franchise forever. He cost us an opportunity to draft Colin White, Brock Boeser, Travis Konecny, Anthony Beauvillier, in the first and Sebastian Aho, Brandon Carlo. MacKenzie Blackwood and Eric Cernak in the second. Colin White and Eric Cernak were actually drafted with our former picks. 1 Quote
dudacek Posted October 21, 2020 Report Posted October 21, 2020 48 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Actually Jbot only traded away 1 st and 2 2nds, while acquiring 2 1sts and a 2nd. Jbot ultimately swapped many 3rd rd picks for 4th rd picks. It's TM who traded away a ton of top picks including 2 1sts in the deep 2015 draft and 5 2nd rd picks. TM acquired some of the picks at the tail end of the tank, but trading away 2 1st rd picks and 2 2nd rd picks in 2015 will haunt this franchise forever. He cost us an opportunity to draft Colin White, Brock Boeser, Travis Konecny, Anthony Beauvillier, in the first and Sebastian Aho, Brandon Carlo. MacKenzie Blackwood and Eric Cernak in the second. Colin White and Eric Cernak were actually drafted with our former picks. Can we not go over this again? its been well-documented that Murray acquired nearly as many picks as he traded away; the difference was like minus a 2nd. Botterill was a bigger net minus but that was mostly in 3rds or lower. Quote
Thorner Posted October 21, 2020 Report Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Jbot drafted 18 players. You could have as many as 5 players from year 1, 3 from year 2 including Pekar, 4 or 5 from year 3 depending if Huglen develops. I think 8 of the 12 have a very good shot at being NHL players or are already NHLers including Dahlin, Cozens, Mitts, Samuelsson, Johnson, Pekar, Bryson and Laaksonnen. Add at least one of the 2 goalies and that's averaging 3 players per draft. TM and DR didn't come close. However, it will be years before we know for sure. Wow, this is a glass overflowing view of some of the prospects mentioned. Are you Kris Baker? 😋 I guess it depends on what your definition of "very good shot" is. Like, relative to the average pick taken in that spot? Better than 50/50? Pekar, Bryson, and Laaksonnen are all long shots to be mainstay NHL players, still, at this point. Pekar maybe 30%? Who are the other 5 players you think have a reasonable shot, that "could" you referred to? - - - In another thread I said, I don't think it's an issue though, at all. Cozens buoys the pool. Odds are one of Samuelsson or Johnson at least makes it. UPL still looks ok, right? So I'm not worried about the "pool". Edited October 21, 2020 by Thorny Quote
Thorner Posted October 21, 2020 Report Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, dudacek said: Hot take: Next year the Sabres prospect pool takes a big leap in the eyes of prospect watchers because nobody graduates, Peterka and Quinn chew up the WJCs and Lukkonnen is in the conversation for the AHL's best goalie. Also, players that are either being discounted or ignored as top prospects around the league (Kubalik, Olofsson) will emerge, while others that are being highly-touted (Tolvanen, Mittelstadt) will flop. Guaranteed. These things are cyclical and these lists rarely correspond to reality. There might be too much recency bias for us to jump that much (the biggest thing will be the current draft) but those things would definitely help, as we've seen. 38 minutes ago, dudacek said: Can we not go over this again? its been well-documented that Murray acquired nearly as many picks as he traded away; the difference was like minus a 2nd. Botterill was a bigger net minus but that was mostly in 3rds or lower. Literally counted them all up a bit ago, you are correct. Edited October 21, 2020 by Thorny Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 21, 2020 Report Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, dudacek said: Can we not go over this again? its been well-documented that Murray acquired nearly as many picks as he traded away; the difference was like minus a 2nd. Botterill was a bigger net minus but that was mostly in 3rds or lower. Except that the year we needed those picks is the year he flung them away as if they were worthless. You simply don't trade away 4 top 2 round picks in the deepest draft in decades. Keeping those picks would have likely changed the course of this franchise long-term. Simply saying he gave away as many as he acquired is not the whole story. Keeping those picks would have likely allowed a proper rebuild of this team, with good depth and a reasonable and manageable payroll. Edited October 21, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN Quote
Thorner Posted October 21, 2020 Report Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, dudacek said: Another list. This one rates the Sabres #7 despite disagreeing with the Quinn pick. For the record, Quinn is ranked as our #5 guy here, between Casey and Tage. Dahlin, Cozens and Jokiharju are 1,2,3 https://theathletic.com/2135405/2020/10/20/nhl-org-rankings-2-0-pronmans-post-draft-rating-of-every-teams-young-talent/ Sabres got passed by the Hurricanes, Kings and Senators, and jumped ahead of the Canucks on the strength of this draft. People REALLY disliked the Quinn pick. Sure hope it's KA, and us, who get the last laugh. 3 hours ago, tom webster said: You can’t complain about qualifying picks and then do it yourself. Dahlin was his pick. Also, you know better then most that you can’t make a blanket statement about number 8. Some years yes, most years no. Still believe three years out, we MIGHT, have a different view of JBOT’s draft. Making a judgement based on prospect list, while good conversation, especially with nothing else going around, is in my opinion, of little value. No, 8 always freaking sucks. But we got Cozens at lucky number 7 😎 16 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Except that the year we needed those picks is the year he flung them away as if they were worthless. You simply don't trade away 4 top 2 round picks in the deepest draft in decades. Keeping those picks would have likely changed the course of this franchise long-term. Simply saying he gave away as many as he acquired is not the whole story. Who were the players selected with the picks? Roslovic, Colin White..anyone of any merit, nevermind franchise changing merit? Looks like Cernak? Pretty decent player, who even knows if he would have been the pick. Jeremy Roy, AHL d-man. Calling Jeremy Roy, Jack Roslovic, Colin White, and Erik Cernak course changers is a pretty big leap. Especially considering he brought in picks for the ones he sent out. Those players aren't special, somehow better for being in a "deep" draft. Edited October 21, 2020 by Thorny Quote
dudacek Posted October 21, 2020 Report Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Except that the year we needed those picks is the year he flung them away as if they were worthless. You simply don't trade away 4 top 2 round picks in the deepest draft in decades. Keeping those picks would have likely changed the course of this franchise long-term. Simply saying he gave away as many as he acquired is not the whole story. Keeping those picks would have likely allowed a proper rebuild of this team, with good depth and a reasonable and manageable payroll. Instead, do want the Bruins did, hanging on to their picks and taking Debrusk, Zboril, Senyshyn and Forsbacka-Karlsson? Or Tampa, who used their three on Mitchell Stephens, Matthew Spencer and Braydon Coburn? They’re certainly paying for it. 😜 Edited October 21, 2020 by dudacek Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 21, 2020 Report Posted October 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Thorny said: People REALLY disliked the Quinn pick. Sure hope it's KA, and us, who get the last laugh. No, 8 always freaking sucks. But we got Cozens at lucky number 7 😎 Who were the players selected with the picks? Roslovic, Colin White..anyone of any merit, nevermind franchise changing merit? Colin White (with Boeser & Konecny also still on the board), Roslovic (with Beauvillier still available), Eric Cernak, and Jeremy Roy (with Fischer, Aho, Carlo, and Dermott all available) Still had we come away with White, Cernak and Roslovic as drafted, we'd be much better off then we are now. 2 minutes ago, dudacek said: Instead, do want the Bruins did, hanging on to their picks and taking Debrusk, Zboril, Senyshyn and Forsbacka-Karlsson? Or Tampa, who used their three on Mitchell Stephens, Matthew Spencer and Braydon Coburn? Coburn was a Trashers pick. TB had no 1st in 2015 and failed on both seconds, but unlike us, they got Cirelli in the 3rd. I'd say their happy. I notice you left off Carlo for the Bruins and last I looked Debrusk is a pretty good player. They went 2 for 5, not great, but a top 4 D and a top 6 forward is certainly helping them. All we have to show is the no brainer pick in Eichel. We entered 2015 with 3 1sts and 3 2nds and walked away with only Eichel. Quote
Thorner Posted October 21, 2020 Report Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) And Guhle and then Montour And the goals Kane scored. I have less a problem with criticizing Murray for WHEN he made the trades. Tried to jumpstart too quick. I just dislike when the scenario is incorrectly applied to why we shouldn't trade picks, NOW, for example. Botterill made as many dumb value propositions with his picks. And we made way more picks under Murray - you'd think he'd deal away a greater Net since he had so many to work with, but Botterill's was about even like dudacek mentioned. Edited October 21, 2020 by Thorny Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 21, 2020 Report Posted October 21, 2020 45 minutes ago, Thorny said: Wow, this is a glass overflowing view of some of the prospects mentioned. Are you Kris Baker? 😋 I guess it depends on what your definition of "very good shot" is. Like, relative to the average pick taken in that spot? Better than 50/50? Pekar, Bryson, and Laaksonnen are all long shots to be mainstay NHL players, still, at this point. Pekar maybe 30%? Who are the other 5 players you think have a reasonable shot, that "could" you referred to? - - - In another thread I said, I don't think it's an issue though, at all. Cozens buoys the pool. Odds are one of Samuelsson or Johnson at least makes it. UPL still looks ok, right? So I'm not worried about the "pool". Dahlin and Cozens are locks, Mitts already has 100+ games. Samuelsson and Johnson will both have NHL careers. That's 5. Bryson, Pekar and Laaksonen should all have NHL careers of various duration. That's the 8 I mentioned previously. UPL (2018 OHL Goalie of the year and MVP) and Portillo (USHL goalie of the year in 2019-20) are both tracking toward NHL careers as well. That's 10. The longer shots are Rousek (think 4th line Energy play who kills penalties and adds some scoring), Weissbach (3 strong years as Wis) and Davidsson (kind of a lesser Asplund). Jbot goes even 8 for 18 that will be a huge performance relative to his predecessor, but 11 or more is reasonably possible. Quote
Thorner Posted October 21, 2020 Report Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Dahlin and Cozens are locks, Mitts already has 100+ games. Samuelsson and Johnson will both have NHL careers. That's 5. Bryson, Pekar and Laaksonen should all have NHL careers of various duration. That's the 8 I mentioned previously. UPL (2018 OHL Goalie of the year and MVP) and Portillo (USHL goalie of the year in 2019-20) are both tracking toward NHL careers as well. That's 10. The longer shots are Rousek (think 4th line Energy play who kills penalties and adds some scoring), Weissbach (3 strong years as Wis) and Davidsson (kind of a lesser Asplund). Jbot goes even 8 for 18 that will be a huge performance relative to his predecessor, but 11 or more is reasonably possible. No, it's not. You think it's *reasonably* possible that ALL of Samuelsson, Johnson, Bryson, Pekar, Laaksonnen, Portillo, and UPL make it as mainstay NHLers, in addition to one further player from the long shots group? That's just not how math works. Even if they were all 75% likely it would be quite unlikely they'd all pan out. Edited October 21, 2020 by Thorny Quote
nfreeman Posted October 21, 2020 Report Posted October 21, 2020 Especially because Mitts is 50/50 to wash out and it’s likely that one of Samuelsson or Johnson does the same. 1 Quote
Thorner Posted October 21, 2020 Report Posted October 21, 2020 Just now, nfreeman said: Especially because Mitts is 50/50 to wash out and it’s likely that one of Samuelsson or Johnson does the same. I didn't even include Mitts. Or Cozens. Just including the 8 I did, and putting them ALL at 75% (unheard of), leaves the odds at around 13%. Quote
Thorner Posted October 21, 2020 Report Posted October 21, 2020 Include all 10 and give them all 50% odds and it's 9 in 10 000. Quote
DarthEbriate Posted October 23, 2020 Report Posted October 23, 2020 On 10/20/2020 at 4:58 PM, GASabresIUFAN said: Actually Jbot only traded away 1 st and 2 2nds, while acquiring 2 1sts and a 2nd. Jbot ultimately swapped many 3rd rd picks for 4th rd picks. Sorry -- been so busy with work I hadn't had time to research. I stand corrected. The sum total of the 1+2+1+1 (wrong film!) exchanges was essentially: ROR + Kane + 2nd ==> Skinner + Montour + Miller + Johnson (1st #31). Which isn't bad. With JBot it was the lower rounds, especially this gem: 2018 BUF 6th for 2019 TOR 6th (trading back in the 6th round), which was then packaged with 2019 BUF 7th to trade into the 5th round with Detroit to draft Cederqvist (after trading our own 5th to Detroit for Scott Wilson the previous season. On 10/20/2020 at 4:29 PM, JohnC said: It's fair to criticize Botts for deals he made on his watch. It's not fair to include him for criticism for transactions made on someone else's watch. What's fair is fair. Nah, I criticize them both for different reasons. I also like certain things each of them did. My proceeding post was more attempting to be encompassing of each of the previous GMs than to call out JBott over Murray. Quote
JohnC Posted October 24, 2020 Report Posted October 24, 2020 4 hours ago, DarthEbriate said: Sorry -- been so busy with work I hadn't had time to research. I stand corrected. The sum total of the 1+2+1+1 (wrong film!) exchanges was essentially: ROR + Kane + 2nd ==> Skinner + Montour + Miller + Johnson (1st #31). Which isn't bad. With JBot it was the lower rounds, especially this gem: 2018 BUF 6th for 2019 TOR 6th (trading back in the 6th round), which was then packaged with 2019 BUF 7th to trade into the 5th round with Detroit to draft Cederqvist (after trading our own 5th to Detroit for Scott Wilson the previous season. Nah, I criticize them both for different reasons. I also like certain things each of them did. My proceeding post was more attempting to be encompassing of each of the previous GMs than to call out JBott over Murray. My proceeding post was not attempting to be encompassing of each of the GMs. It responded to what each did and intentionally did not intermingle their actions. Quote
LGR4GM Posted April 30, 2021 Report Posted April 30, 2021 Eric Portillo will be taking over as starting GT for Michigan. There was some concern that Strauss would stay for his senior year limiting the number of games Portillo started. 3 Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted April 30, 2021 Report Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) This is good news for Portillo and the Sabres. Maybe worth signing Mann as well. He kept Portillo on the bench. There must be some talent there. Edited April 30, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN 1 Quote
LGR4GM Posted April 30, 2021 Report Posted April 30, 2021 1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said: This is good news for Portillo and the Sabres. Maybe worth signing Mann as well. He kept Portillo on the bench. There must be some talent there. He was also a the Captain according to Elite Prospects so some leadership there as well. Quote
LabattBlue Posted April 30, 2021 Report Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) On 4/30/2021 at 3:37 PM, GASabresIUFAN said: This is good news for Portillo and the Sabres. Maybe worth signing Mann as well. He kept Portillo on the bench. There must be some talent there. Mann would be a worthwhile signing, and considering the lack of goaltending depth, the Sabres organization would probably be a good place for him to land. Sabres 1A - Ullmark(2 or 3 year deal) Sabres 1B - Solid UFA vet good for 30 games(or more when Ullmark gets hurt again) Amerks 1A - UPL Amerks 1B - Mann Cincinnati - Houser or Tokarski Edited May 2, 2021 by LabattBlue 1 Quote
Crusader1969 Posted May 1, 2021 Report Posted May 1, 2021 Was Murray one of the guys they want to see get some NHL games? If so, time is running short Quote
Norcal Posted May 10, 2021 Report Posted May 10, 2021 https://thehockeywriters.com/sabres-prospects-watch-winger-aaron-huglen/ Quote
Norcal Posted May 10, 2021 Report Posted May 10, 2021 Chicago Steel and Fargo Force to Meet in Clark Cup Final Aaron Huglen (Fargo, 2-4-6) is 6th in the league in Playoff scoring. How do I watch these games? Game 1: Fargo Force @ Chicago Steel – Friday, May 14 (7:05 p.m. CT at Fox Valley Ice Arena) Game 2: Fargo Force @ Chicago Steel – Saturday, May 15 (7:05 p.m. CT at Fox Valley Ice Arena) Game 3: Chicago Steel @ Fargo Force – Friday, May 21 (7:05 p.m. CT at Scheels Arena) Game 4: Chicago Steel @ Fargo Force – Saturday, May 22 (6:05 p.m. CT at Scheels Arena) * Game 5: Fargo Force @ Chicago Steel – Tuesday, May 25 (7:05 p.m. CT at Fox Valley Ice Arena) * Quote
Norcal Posted May 10, 2021 Report Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) Watch or skip till the end of the second clip for the close up! Edited May 10, 2021 by Norcal Quote
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