2019-20 Sabres Prospects

[Stoner]

Build from the goal on out?

Better add UPL to the timeline theory.

[LGR4GM]

16 hours ago, dudacek said:

Maybe it’s just a false impression, but don’t defenders picked 25-40 have a much better hit rate than forwards taken in the same area?

Anecdotally yes. Actually, I haven't run the numbers. Would be nice if Berggren or Ylonen were in the system though because I see no path to Samuelsson ever playing a game in Buffalo. Johnson at least is a lefty. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Anecdotally yes. Actually, I haven't run the numbers. Would be nice if Berggren or Ylonen were in the system though because I see no path to Samuelsson ever playing a game in Buffalo. Johnson at least is a lefty. 

Why not? Miller will be gone soonish, probably in Seattle expansion.  McCabe is gone when his contract expires.  Scandy is an UFA. Bogo is a UFA. Risto is likely to be traded this season.  That leaves 3 open slots longterm assuming Montour is re-signed with Dahlin and Joker.  

There is no certainty that Pilut earns a longterm job and we are going to need some physical presences on the back end. Borgen is also not a certainty although I’d like to see him get a shot.  

It also could be another 2-3 years before both Johnson and Samuelsson are ready.  To many factors at play to determine if and when he gets a shot.

That said, I still worry about his skating.

Edited November 20, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Why not? Miller will be gone soonish, probably in Seattle expansion.  McCabe is gone when his contract expires.  Scandy is an UFA. Bogo is a UFA. Risto is likely to be traded this season.  That leaves 3 open slots longterm assuming Montour is re-signed with Dahlin and Joker.  

There is no certainty that Pilut earns a longterm job and we are going to need some physical presences on the back end. Borgen is also not a certainty although I’d like to see him get a shot.  

It also could be another 2-3 years before both Johnson and Samuelsson are ready.  To many factors at play to determine if and when he gets a shot.

That said, I still worry about his skating.

Because he is a righty. Joki, Montour, and then Borgen, Fitzgerlad, Samuelsson, Laskoonen. 

I think his agility in his skating with be his downfall. I haven't seen him in a couple months though so maybe it will improve. It just bothers me that in back to back years we ignored offensive talent to take defense even though we have so much defense we are starting them at forward. Even though scoring is a problem, we still seem to ignore our offense. 

[shrader]

The NHL landscape is littered with prospects who never wound up seeing time with the team that drafted them.  That could be guys who weren't NHL level, but it also includes those that wound up being traded.  Let's not forget that each of these picks is an asset.  There's far more value than just will he or won't he skate for this team.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Anecdotally yes. Actually, I haven't run the numbers. Would be nice if Berggren or Ylonen were in the system though because I see no path to Samuelsson ever playing a game in Buffalo. Johnson at least is a lefty. 

Mattias Samuelsson, is a lefty who generally plays LD

Edited November 20, 2019 by Curt

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, Curt said:

Mattias Samuelsson, is a lefty who generally plays LD

Well that makes this even better. We drafted 3 LHD in 2 years with 3 out of our 4 first picks. Fanfreakingtastic. 

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Well that makes this even better. We drafted 3 LHD in 2 years with 3 out of our 4 first picks. Fanfreakingtastic. 

From my point of view, that’s fine as long as you can make moves for what the NHL team needs, which is the real problem here.  A forward drafted at 30-32 in 2018 or 19 wouldn’t be helping the NHL team yet anyway.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

From my point of view, that’s fine as long as you can make moves for what the NHL team needs, which is the real problem here.  A forward drafted at 30-32 in 2018 or 19 wouldn’t be helping the NHL team yet anyway.

Name a forward other than Cozens who can come in and help next year that is in the Sabres prospect pool. Asplund is already here. Tage is already here. I come up with exactly 1 name, Pekar. There's no one in development that has top 6 potential with the exception of Cozens. That's a major problem. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Because he is a righty. Joki, Montour, and then Borgen, Fitzgerlad, Samuelsson, Laskoonen. 

I think his agility in his skating with be his downfall. I haven't seen him in a couple months though so maybe it will improve. It just bothers me that in back to back years we ignored offensive talent to take defense even though we have so much defense we are starting them at forward. Even though scoring is a problem, we still seem to ignore our offense. 

Fitz isn’t an NHL player and Laaksonen has yet to step foot in NA.  I agree on the skating but we’ll know more at the World Jrs when he and Johnson team up as a pair.  
 

I think he is a bigger Borgen with more O.  The only question is his skating but if it’s adequate then he has a very good shot at the NHL here or as a trade piece. Don’t under-estimate his NHL bloodlines. 
 

I have zero problem with Jbot’s drafting of D considering the holes he found in the pipeline at C, D and G when he got here. 

Also when he got here most of the young talent here was at forward.  Reinhart and Jack were in the NHL (ages 20 & 21).  Nylander and Asplund were our top picks in 2016 and people were hi on 3rd pick Pu, while Guhle was our only legit D prospect.  Then Olofsson blossomed adding F depth to the prospect pool.  Since then he has had 7 top 2 round picks and drafted 3 centers including 2 top picks in Cozens and Mitts, 3 D and 1 G UPL. 

Considering our needs this looks fine to me.  I agree we still lack scoring wingers.  Thompson and Olofsson were supposed to help here and so far only VO has delivered.  Nylander was also supposed to help here but didn’t. I would have liked to see a scoring winger instead of Davidsson in 2017 but there doesn’t appear to be any snipers drafted after him so far.  

Borgen and Laaksonen developing into legit prospects is a huge bonus but neither is an NHL player yet and may never be.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Fitz isn’t an NHL player and Laaksonen has yet to step foot in NA.  I agree on the skating but we’ll know more at the World Jrs when he and Johnson team up as a pair.  
 

I think he is a bigger Borgen with more O.  The only question is his skating but if it’s adequate then he has a very good shot at the NHL here or as a trade piece. Don’t under-estimate his NHL bloodlines. 
 

I have zero problem with Jbot’s drafting of D considering the holes he found in the pipeline at C, D and G when he got here. 

Also when he got here most of the young talent here was at forward.  Reinhart and Jack were in the NHL (ages 20 & 21).  Nylander and Asplund were our top picks in 2016 and people were hi on 3rd pick Pu, while Guhle was our only legit D prospect.  Then Olofsson blossomed adding F depth to the prospect pool.  Since then he has had 7 top 2 round picks and drafted 3 centers including 2 top picks in Cozens and Mitts, 3 D and 1 G UPL. 

Considering our needs this looks fine to me.  I agree we still lack scoring wingers.  Thompson and Olofsson were supposed to help here and so far only VO has delivered.  Nylander was also supposed to help here but didn’t. I would have liked to see a scoring winger instead of Davidsson in 2017 but there doesn’t appear to be any snipers drafted after him so far.  

Borgen and Laaksonen developing into legit prospects is a huge bonus but neither is an NHL player yet and may never be.

And he has brought in 3 defenders and Mojo in the last 6 months. That's it for impact forwards. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

And he has brought in 3 defenders and Mojo in the last 6 months. That's it for impact forwards. 

Ok, so what.  Samuelsson is 19 and Johnson 18.  They are 5-8 years younger then the guys on the NHL roster ahead of them except Jokiharju and Dahlin and 4-5 years younger then Pilut. 

Borgen, 22, and Pilut, 23 are much more likely to be blocked by Jbot’s recent moves then Johnson or Samuelsson.  

Also Dahlin can play either side although he is a L shot.

Here is your depth chart (not including Scandy and Bogo who are UFAs after this season)

LHD (contracts include this season)

Dahlin 19 NHL on ELC

McCabe 26 NHL 2 years then UFA

Pilut 23 AHL 1yr RFA

Johnson 18 NCAA

Samuelsson 19 NCAA

RHD

Risto 25 NHL 3 years UFA

Montour 25 NHL 1yr RFA

Jokiharju 20 NHL ELC

Miller 27 NHL 3 years UFA

Borgen 22 AHL 2 years RFA

Laaksonen 20 Euro

I’m sorry but there is nothing blocking either Johnson’s or Samuelsson’s path to the NHL is they are good enough.

 

 

 

[shrader]

And on top of all of that, draft forwards instead of those two guys and the team is still in the exact same place that they are today.  Fixing the offense 3-5 years down the road does nothing for the inability to score today.  What does?  Trades.

 

Players drafted at any point after Samuelsson have a combined 18 games played with a stat line of 0-0-0.  Those after Johnson?  No games yet.  The moves are going to come at some point to reshuffle this prospect pool.  Sadly for the mental health of this board, I don't see it coming until the offseason at the earliest.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Name a forward other than Cozens who can come in and help next year that is in the Sabres prospect pool. Asplund is already here. Tage is already here. I come up with exactly 1 name, Pekar. There's no one in development that has top 6 potential with the exception of Cozens. That's a major problem. 

I think it’s a little unfair to exclude Asplund and Thompson, guys who were only recalled due to injury.  Yes, in addition to them I would say Cozens and Pekar.

Its true that the D prospect depth is better right now.  I’m just saying that’s ok, IF you can use that, or find some way, to adequately address the forward position on the NHL team.

[LGR4GM]

So that the solution then? Asplund and Tage. That gives us a 3c along with Mitts at 3c and a 3rw. Still don't see how our op 6 is going to be improved by anyone currently in development outside of Cozens. 

[Curt]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

So that the solution then? Asplund and Tage. That gives us a 3c along with Mitts at 3c and a 3rw. Still don't see how our op 6 is going to be improved by anyone currently in development outside of Cozens. 

Probably not the solution.  The team needs more quality up front.  Even the near best case scenario of development from the young forwards is not going to be good enough for this year or next year.  They need outside additions.  Most agreed with this in the off-season though, so it’s not news.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Curt

[freester]

Samuelson needs to be traded for a good forward prospect 

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 minutes ago, freester said:

Samuelson needs to be traded for a good forward prospect 

And how does this help us now?

[freester]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

And how does this help us now?

It doesn’t but we need forwards in the pipeline 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, freester said:

It doesn’t but we need forwards in the pipeline 

We could use a sniper or two but we have forwards.

Asplund, Thompson, Routsalainen, Davidsson, Cozens, and Pekar make up 50% of our top 12 prospects with Cozens are no 1 prospect.  Admittedly only Cozens currently projects as a top 6 forward, but to say we lack NHL quality forward prospects is incorrect.  

We also have Mitts, Reinhart, Olofsson and Eichel who are 24 and under and in the NHL.  

 

[freester]

Mitts is mediocre and only Cozens projects as top 6. We have plenty of 4th line players already.  If we get rid of Okposo Girgensons, Larson then we’ll have room for more garbage 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, freester said:

Mitts is mediocre and only Cozens projects as top 6. We have plenty of 4th line players already.  If we get rid of Okposo Girgensons, Larson then we’ll have room for more garbage 

I don't think Pekar, Asplund or Thompson are garbage.  I think they have the potential to be the core of a very good 2 way third line with some attitude.  

[freester]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I don't think Pekar, Asplund or Thompson are garbage.  I think they have the potential to be the core of a very good 2 way third line with some attitude.  

On a good team they are 4th liners 

[Curt]

11 minutes ago, freester said:

On a good team they are 4th liners 

Possibly, but we can’t be certain about how young players will improve.  They could be better or worse than that.

[Thorner]

On 11/20/2019 at 4:19 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

I don't think Pekar, Asplund or Thompson are garbage.  I think they have the potential to be the core of a very good 2 way third line with some attitude.  

It's more likely Pekar never becomes an NHL player than that he becomes a good 3rd line player. Not being negative, it's just the way these things usually go with 4th round picks.