2019 Free Agency Thread (Non-Sabres)

[TrueBlueGED]

7 minutes ago, Taro T said:

1 bad GM overestimated how cheap another bad GM's owner actually was.  (Don't care that Waddell was a finalist for hardware this year; lots of bad GM's before him were as well.)

GM awards based on a single season might be the dumbest thing in all of sports. 

[PerreaultForever]

12 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Limbo in the sense Montreal doesn't know if they're going to get him or not. 

Carolina has to match and will. After matching they might try to trade him but no way they let him go for just those 3 picks. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

5 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Carolina has to match and will. After matching they might try to trade him but no way they let him go for just those 3 picks. 

They matched and can't trade him for a year, or so I'm told.

[Taro T]

24 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Carolina has to match and will. After matching they might try to trade him but no way they let him go for just those 3 picks. 

 

18 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

They matched and can't trade him for a year, or so I'm told.

Correct.  The Canes will have to keep him for at least 1 calendar year, so they will be required to pay next year's signing bonus as well before being able to move him.

So, he will be a Cane for at least the next 2 seasons.  (The cheapskates won't pay his bonus & THEN trade him leaving the other team to only pay actual pennies for that cap hit.)

[LTS]

4 hours ago, WildCard said:

Tampa?

 

3 hours ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

Well, if the agent he's referring to is Brayden Point's agent then sure I guess that getting Aho an offer sheet and setting his price at nearly 9M would possibly reset the conversation with Tampa if they were trying to get him to take a discount but that's pretty convoluted.

Yes,  Brayden Point and Sebastian Aho have the same agent, Gerry Johannson.

The word is that Montreal was looking at Point and Johannson steered them to Aho with the idea of the offer.  Johannson's agency (The Sports Corporation) represents Brendan Gallagher, Carey Price, Joel Armia, and a couple of other Canadiens.  They actually represent a lot of players (33 according to Forbes).  

So, Tampa is near the cap and wants to let Point sit (and hope there is no offer sheet).  In order to establish a comparable, the agent encourages Montreal to create a great offer sheet for Aho (and a fair one).  One that gets his client to UFA status in his prime.  Aho is happy with the money and signs.  Carolina agrees to the terms.  Aho wins no matter what, he gets paid and he hits UFA.

So, that leads to the agent returning to Tampa and telling them.  Hey, Aho just got this.  There's your comparable, step up.  Because if you don't, Montreal might be back knocking on the LIghtning's door with an offer sheet to Point.  Which, if Tampa matches, will put them over the cap ($7.9M).  They will need to move cash out somewhere in order to make it happen. and still will have very little to sign the rest of the RFAs.  It also handcuffs a division rival.

Now, if I were Montreal, I might threaten the offer sheet and see if I can't shake something else out of Tampa.  Tampa signed Schenn and McElhinney.  They have to be looking to ship out Domingue ($1.1M) and another D just to free up space.  That's still not much as I assume they aren't getting rid of Hedman/McDonagh. 

In any event, you have to figure Point is going to push for the same 5 year term... that's going to strap Tampa fierce unless they consider trading out a big gun.. because they are going to also have to sign Sergachev and Cirelli next year.

Anyway, the agent part of the theory comes from Twitter (@theFlopFIsh) and mentions by LeBrun, but it seems quite plausible given how easily Carolina matched the sheet.  And it certainly makes one think about how agents can also play in this game when they represent a few big names at the right time.

 

[shrader]

55 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Correct.  The Canes will have to keep him for at least 1 calendar year, so they will be required to pay next year's signing bonus as well before being able to move him.

So, he will be a Cane for at least the next 2 seasons.  (The cheapskates won't pay his bonus & THEN trade him leaving the other team to only pay actual pennies for that cap hit.)

Is it one calendar year from the date of the signing/date of the match or is it the one NHL calendar year (7/1-6/30)?

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, shrader said:

Is it one calendar year from the date of the signing/date of the match or is it the one NHL calendar year (7/1-6/30)?

1 year "from the date it exercises right of 1st refusal" .

[Scottysabres]

Does anyone think the reason Buffalo hasn't offer sheeted a guy like Point is because they don't have Reinhart or Dahlin locked up long term?

Edited July 3, 2019 by Scottysabres

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 minute ago, Scottysabres said:

Does anyone think the reason Buffalo hasn't offer a heated a guy like Point is because they don't have Reinhart or Dahlin locked up long term?

Not me.

[Sabel79]

3 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Does anyone think the reason Buffalo hasn't offer sheeted a guy like Point is because they don't have Reinhart or Dahlin locked up long term?

No.  There is more than $20 Million coming off the books next year in players who will, all going well, be told to not let the door hit them on the way out after this coming season.  Other moves can be made subsequently, I’d have to believe that if you can get a star player who makes sense for what JBots is trying to build, at no cost other than money, he’d do it.  

Frankly, if Point costs us Samson, oh well.  Dahlin goes nowhere.  Either JBots has reached out and been told no thanks, he’s working on some sort of madness in the trade department, or he should be... wait for it... FIRED IMMEDIATELY.  

[Curt]

7 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Does anyone think the reason Buffalo hasn't offer sheeted a guy like Point is because they don't have Reinhart or Dahlin locked up long term?

Based on the frequency of offer sheets in general, I would say it probably wouldn’t happen regardless.  

Also need to keep in mind that signing Point to an offer sheet means that Point has to agree to and sign it.  An offer sheet is something that a team does along with a player, not something that a team does to a player.  He has to decide that he would like to leave Tampa and come to Buffalo.  That in itself is pretty unlikely at the moment.

[apuszczalowski]

19 hours ago, Derrico said:

They must of believed this is all it would have taken to get it done.  Still shocking they didn't go a bit higher.  In this offer Carolina would barely get any assets back.  You're right in that I bet if it was a deal that involved 4 1st the thinking would have changed.  Question is: did Montreal try calling their bluff and got it wrong?  Why wouldn't they have made this more difficult to match with more dollars/higher cap hit?  Worried about their own cap situation too I guess.

Montreal probably didn't want to give up the extra picks for him while also having to pay more.

They could always take those picks and use it in a deal with another team in a cap crunch looking to move someone and get a good player at possibly a lower salary. With RFA offer sheets, the GMs/teams also have to factor draft pick compensation into their offer of what they are comfortable paying a young player without a long track record. The Canadians probably felt that the best move to make to get Carolina to pass was to make the owner have to spend a ton of cash in the first year that he may not have to give 

It does seem stupid/crazy to basically be in a position where you let other GMs negotiate a deal for one of your star players for you, but this owner is different and doesn't necessarily sound like he is very good with money (he did invest a big chunk into a football league that was about to fold and then did fold a few weeks later) he seems like one of those guys who makes a ton of money quickly and easily and thinks the gravel train will keep rolling so he throws it away doing things for fun. He isn't your typical team owner and just wants to do things his way/the fun way which usually leads them to bankruptcy very quickly.....

[shrader]

33 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

Montreal probably didn't want to give up the extra picks for him while also having to pay more.

They could always take those picks and use it in a deal with another team in a cap crunch looking to move someone and get a good player at possibly a lower salary. With RFA offer sheets, the GMs/teams also have to factor draft pick compensation into their offer of what they are comfortable paying a young player without a long track record. The Canadians probably felt that the best move to make to get Carolina to pass was to make the owner have to spend a ton of cash in the first year that he may not have to give 

It does seem stupid/crazy to basically be in a position where you let other GMs negotiate a deal for one of your star players for you, but this owner is different and doesn't necessarily sound like he is very good with money (he did invest a big chunk into a football league that was about to fold and then did fold a few weeks later) he seems like one of those guys who makes a ton of money quickly and easily and thinks the gravel train will keep rolling so he throws it away doing things for fun. He isn't your typical team owner and just wants to do things his way/the fun way which usually leads them to bankruptcy very quickly.....

He's also suing that football league right now.  He's always doing something to try to grab people's attention.  I realize this is one hell of a generalization, but I feel like the better ownership situation is the one that tends to stay under the radar.

[LTS]

1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said:

Montreal probably didn't want to give up the extra picks for him while also having to pay more.

They could always take those picks and use it in a deal with another team in a cap crunch looking to move someone and get a good player at possibly a lower salary. With RFA offer sheets, the GMs/teams also have to factor draft pick compensation into their offer of what they are comfortable paying a young player without a long track record. The Canadians probably felt that the best move to make to get Carolina to pass was to make the owner have to spend a ton of cash in the first year that he may not have to give 

It does seem stupid/crazy to basically be in a position where you let other GMs negotiate a deal for one of your star players for you, but this owner is different and doesn't necessarily sound like he is very good with money (he did invest a big chunk into a football league that was about to fold and then did fold a few weeks later) he seems like one of those guys who makes a ton of money quickly and easily and thinks the gravel train will keep rolling so he throws it away doing things for fun. He isn't your typical team owner and just wants to do things his way/the fun way which usually leads them to bankruptcy very quickly.....

It's not like that really happened here.  The two sides had met and were reportedly off by $2M and the term was a factor.  Aho's option is to not sign any offer Carolina gives him and sit out.  The Canes know this, but the only way to make sure another GM does not offer sheet him is to give him the contract he wants to sign.  So, the Canes would have had to offer up $9.5M at 5 years.  

Now, a GM knows that for THAT offer sheet to happen, a team is going to have to give up 4 1sts.  That might be tempting to take.  As much as you like Aho, you don't want to pay him $9.5M for 5 years and then really have to pony up in UFA.  Instead, you might take the 4 1st rounders.  But that did not happen.

No GM wanted to give Aho $9.5M for 5 years.  So Aho's camp was effectively backed down into accepting a deal that was more than what the Canes offered but less than what he wanted.  Why?  Because no one was giving him $9.5M.  The Canes, while having to pay more, now have the player under a contract they found acceptable because it's better to have 5 years of Aho at $8.5M than 3 more picks in next years draft.

 

[shrader]

43 minutes ago, LTS said:

It's not like that really happened here.  The two sides had met and were reportedly off by $2M and the term was a factor.  Aho's option is to not sign any offer Carolina gives him and sit out.  The Canes know this, but the only way to make sure another GM does not offer sheet him is to give him the contract he wants to sign.  So, the Canes would have had to offer up $9.5M at 5 years.  

Now, a GM knows that for THAT offer sheet to happen, a team is going to have to give up 4 1sts.  That might be tempting to take.  As much as you like Aho, you don't want to pay him $9.5M for 5 years and then really have to pony up in UFA.  Instead, you might take the 4 1st rounders.  But that did not happen.

No GM wanted to give Aho $9.5M for 5 years.  So Aho's camp was effectively backed down into accepting a deal that was more than what the Canes offered but less than what he wanted.  Why?  Because no one was giving him $9.5M.  The Canes, while having to pay more, now have the player under a contract they found acceptable because it's better to have 5 years of Aho at $8.5M than 3 more picks in next years draft.

 

So in other words, Aho compromised, but with another team and not Carolina.  That's just plain strange.

[Sabre fan]

actually apparently Carolina are pissed cause they wanted to give Aho 6 or 7 years...now he hits free agency first year contract expires. Has anybody looked at what's left in UFA's? Not too much...obviously if we are to get anybody to fill 2nd center it'll have to be via trade. Do find it strange that hockey has gone the way of life in the real world...no more middle-class. Just th ehave's and the have not's. You have the big contract guys and then the guys barely making scale. Strange but there really isn't much in the way of 4 to 7 million guys much anymore

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

It's not like that really happened here.  The two sides had met and were reportedly off by $2M and the term was a factor.  Aho's option is to not sign any offer Carolina gives him and sit out.  The Canes know this, but the only way to make sure another GM does not offer sheet him is to give him the contract he wants to sign.  So, the Canes would have had to offer up $9.5M at 5 years.  

Now, a GM knows that for THAT offer sheet to happen, a team is going to have to give up 4 1sts.  That might be tempting to take.  As much as you like Aho, you don't want to pay him $9.5M for 5 years and then really have to pony up in UFA.  Instead, you might take the 4 1st rounders.  But that did not happen.

No GM wanted to give Aho $9.5M for 5 years.  So Aho's camp was effectively backed down into accepting a deal that was more than what the Canes offered but less than what he wanted.  Why?  Because no one was giving him $9.5M.  The Canes, while having to pay more, now have the player under a contract they found acceptable because it's better to have 5 years of Aho at $8.5M than 3 more picks in next years draft.

 

Except the $9.5/ for 5 was a negotiating position with the $9.5 being the negotiable part, just like the $7.5/ for 7 (8?) was.  How do we know that?  Because he backed off it on day 1 of FA when he got an offer close to that included the 5 year term.

Also, with him getting ~$9MM in signing bonus next year rather than just getting paid per game, with a lockout looming, he might have just added ~$4MM to his total haul (assuming ~45% of that season gets lost).  So, he originally asked for ~$47.5MM over 5 years nominally but would've realistically received ~$43.5MM due to the lockout (assuming, safely IMHO, no salary rollback in the next CBA) and will end up actually getting ~$42MM over 5 years.  Not even looking at the time value of money by having $11MM of that now and another $10MM within a year.  Did he REALLY not get exactly what his original ask was?

And did Waddell not effectively let Bergevin do his negotiating for him?

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, Sabre fan said:

actually apparently Carolina are pissed cause they wanted to give Aho 6 or 7 years...now he hits free agency first year contract expires. Has anybody looked at what's left in UFA's? Not too much...obviously if we are to get anybody to fill 2nd center it'll have to be via trade. Do find it strange that hockey has gone the way of life in the real world...no more middle-class. Just th ehave's and the have not's. You have the big contract guys and then the guys barely making scale. Strange but there really isn't much in the way of 4 to 7 million guys much anymore

Reduction of the mid level player salary.  Which was (easily) predicted to be a side effect of enacting a salary cap back in '05.

[shrader]

35 minutes ago, Sabre fan said:

actually apparently Carolina are pissed cause they wanted to give Aho 6 or 7 years...now he hits free agency first year contract expires. Has anybody looked at what's left in UFA's? Not too much...obviously if we are to get anybody to fill 2nd center it'll have to be via trade. Do find it strange that hockey has gone the way of life in the real world...no more middle-class. Just th ehave's and the have not's. You have the big contract guys and then the guys barely making scale. Strange but there really isn't much in the way of 4 to 7 million guys much anymore

My guess is that Carolina actually would have preferred a bridge deal.  That fits their MO perfectly.

[LTS]

2 hours ago, shrader said:

So in other words, Aho compromised, but with another team and not Carolina.  That's just plain strange.

Aho didn't want to compromise.  He would take $9.5M over 5 years.  However, no one was offering that because in order for Aho to get it the team would give up four 1sts.  So, Aho's value in the RFA market was not worth $9.5M for 5 years.  He wasn't going to get it by holding out with Carolina and he wasn't getting it from any team in the NHL.  Since he couldn't get what he wanted, he did the next best thing, force Carolina to give him a contract on terms he's willing to accept.

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Except the $9.5/ for 5 was a negotiating position with the $9.5 being the negotiable part, just like the $7.5/ for 7 (8?) was.  How do we know that?  Because he backed off it on day 1 of FA when he got an offer close to that included the 5 year term.

Also, with him getting ~$9MM in signing bonus next year rather than just getting paid per game, with a lockout looming, he might have just added ~$4MM to his total haul (assuming ~45% of that season gets lost).  So, he originally asked for ~$47.5MM over 5 years nominally but would've realistically received ~$43.5MM due to the lockout (assuming, safely IMHO, no salary rollback in the next CBA) and will end up actually getting ~$42MM over 5 years.  Not even looking at the time value of money by having $11MM of that now and another $10MM within a year.  Did he REALLY not get exactly what his original ask was?

And did Waddell not effectively let Bergevin do his negotiating for him?

There was negotiation prior to July 1.  At least so far in each side made an offer.  Once July 1 hit, Waddell is effectively handcuffed.  He's not letting someone else negotiate for him, the negotiation no longer involves him.

Aho negotiated with 30 other NHL teams.  He negotiated with Bergevin to get a deal he liked and Waddell is forced to accept or take the compensation.  Waddell cannot be said to let something happen if he has no ability to stop it from happening.  Well, of course, he could stop it from happening, if he agrees to the players terms.  In which case there is still no negotiation that occurs.  There is just accepting the players terms and its done.

 

 

 

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, LTS said:

Aho didn't want to compromise.  He would take $9.5M over 5 years.  However, no one was offering that because in order for Aho to get it the team would give up four 1sts.  So, Aho's value in the RFA market was not worth $9.5M for 5 years.  He wasn't going to get it by holding out with Carolina and he wasn't getting it from any team in the NHL.  Since he couldn't get what he wanted, he did the next best thing, force Carolina to give him a contract on terms he's willing to accept.

There was negotiation prior to July 1.  At least so far in each side made an offer.  Once July 1 hit, Waddell is effectively handcuffed.  He's not letting someone else negotiate for him, the negotiation no longer involves him.

Aho negotiated with 30 other NHL teams.  He negotiated with Bergevin to get a deal he liked and Waddell is forced to accept or take the compensation.  Waddell cannot be said to let something happen if he has no ability to stop it from happening.  Well, of course, he could stop it from happening, if he agrees to the players terms.  In which case there is still no negotiation that occurs.  There is just accepting the players terms and its done.

 

 

 

Except Waddell is the same weenie that claimed Regier wouldn't negotiate with him because he kept asking for more for a goalie than Waddell was willing to give up.  Quite certain that the term "negotiate" does not mean what Donnie boy thinks it means. ?

(Also, the $9.5MM per season was only worth 2-1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd in compensation.  Doesn't affect your points; merely clarifying that. ? )

[apuszczalowski]

But if he wanted $9.5 for 5 years, and they knew no team was going to offer that because of the draft pick compensation, he did let the other GM do the negotiating for them if it was their plan to match any offer that was less than that. They gambled that no one would give up 4 1sts (or 2 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd or whatever for him) and they let him negotiate with another team for a lesser offer he wasn't accepting until he was able to negotiate elsewhere.

It's a risk that there's another GM out there willing to be crazy that they took. But it let Aho have the opportunity to test his market and see if someone would give him what he wanted while also giving the Canes the ability to get compensation back if someone agrees with what he wanted.

[Brawndo]

Per Dreger Cody Ceci will sign one year 4.5 Million as well 

[Brawndo]

 

[dudacek]

14 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

That’s interesting - essentially they replaced Benn for a lot more money.

I keep expecting the Habs to sign Gardiner and wonder why it hasn’t happened yet. Gardiner’s camp should have a firm handle on his options and must be waiting for another contract or trade to drop first.