2019-2020 Lineup

[LGR4GM]

22 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

That's funny coming from the guy still crying over Brock Boesner, in this very thread no less. Especially given that the guy you're mad at for passing on him already lost his job. Something something glass houses.

Also you said this:

Quote

Mr. Dart Thrower prefers to trade quality players for quantity so he has more darts to throw.

ROR yes, we traded quality for garbage and 100% that is on Botterill. It was a garbage trade then and still looks like one now. 

but let's move forward. Skinner, 4 pieces of nothing for a 30 goal scorer. 3 picks (2nd, 3rd, 5th) and Pu. 

Montour for I don't even remember the trade that's how little I cared for the lost pieces, I think Guhle and a 1st?

Miller for a bag of pucks ( a 2nd and a 5th round pick) 

Jokiharju for a forward prospect that might bust

 

In summary Botterill executed 1 trade that does in fact match your description, however the other trades he has made do not match up with what you describe as he has traded basically nothing for 3 good NHL players and 1 solid NHL prospect while trading away 2 okay prospects, 1 meh prospect, and a few draft picks. So sure, be mad about the ROR trade but Botterill isn't much of a dart thrower. 

[Drunkard]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't randomly say Brock Boeser when ever I mention our lineup. 

You however almost CONSTANTLY put in the "dart thrower" comment in a huge chunk of your posts. 

I stopped looking once I hit mid June. We get it. You don't like the GM. You don't have to say "Dart Thrower" in every breath in which you mention him. 

That's because when I referred to him as Mr. MBA somebody cried about that too. People ***** on Evander Kane constantly for being a volume shooter but he's just a player. Then they defend and/or make excuses for Botterill for taking a similar approach to team building. I would expect more from the guy who is supposed to be the subject matter expert and in charge of roster personnel. Botterill's approach is the same thing, throw everything at the wall and see what sticks and if that made Kane a stupid player then it definitely shouldn't speak well for Pugsley's older, fatter doppleganger.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

That's because when I referred to him as Mr. MBA somebody cried about that too. People ***** on Evander Kane constantly for being a volume shooter but he's just a player. Then they defend and/or make excuses for Botterill for taking a similar approach to team building. I would expect more from the guy who is supposed to be the subject matter expert and in charge of roster personnel. Botterill's approach is the same thing, throw everything at the wall and see what sticks and if that made Kane a stupid player then it definitely shouldn't speak well for Pugsley's older, fatter doppleganger.

Because as shown above that is not his approach. Other than the ROR what makes you think this? That might be the better question. 

[Drunkard]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Also you said this:

ROR yes, we traded quality for garbage and 100% that is on Botterill. It was a garbage trade then and still looks like one now. 

but let's move forward. Skinner, 4 pieces of nothing for a 30 goal scorer. 3 picks (2nd, 3rd, 5th) and Pu. 

Montour for I don't even remember the trade that's how little I cared for the lost pieces, I think Guhle and a 1st?

Miller for a bag of pucks ( a 2nd and a 5th round pick) 

Jokiharju for a forward prospect that might bust

 

In summary Botterill executed 1 trade that does in fact match your description, however the other trades he has made do not match up with what you describe as he has traded basically nothing for 3 good NHL players and 1 solid NHL prospect while trading away 2 okay prospects, 1 meh prospect, and a few draft picks. So sure, be mad about the ROR trade but Botterill isn't much of a dart thrower. 

I think Pugsley also botched the Kane trade with his volume fetish as well. Nothing seems to leak out of the Sabres office, but there were several reports about his 4 pieces including a first round pick demands for Kane which he never got close to getting. He did luck out that his conditional 2nd round pick turned into a 1st though and he did land another prospect. Unfortunately that spaghetti noodle (Danny O'Regan I think?) didn't stick.

I've said it before but I have no problem with him delving into the bargain bins with his volume approach when he's trying to acquire talent. It's a horrible approach to selling off talent though as witness by the Kane and O'Reilly deals. I'll take one good player, pick, or prospect over a handful of magic beans any day.

[LGR4GM]

25 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

I think Pugsley also botched the Kane trade with his volume fetish as well. Nothing seems to leak out of the Sabres office, but there were several reports about his 4 pieces including a first round pick demands for Kane which he never got close to getting. He did luck out that his conditional 2nd round pick turned into a 1st though and he did land another prospect. Unfortunately that spaghetti noodle (Danny O'Regan I think?) didn't stick.

I've said it before but I have no problem with him delving into the bargain bins with his volume approach when he's trying to acquire talent. It's a horrible approach to selling off talent though as witness by the Kane and O'Reilly deals. I'll take one good player, pick, or prospect over a handful of magic beans any day.

He traded 17 games of Kane for essentially Montour in the end but it was a 1st, 4th, and OReagan. So basically he traded Kane for a first. that first became Montour with the addition of Guhle. The Kane trade was fine. 

 

to the bolded, really? That's what you are now going with? 

36 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

That's because when I referred to him as Mr. MBA somebody cried about that too. People ***** on Evander Kane constantly for being a volume shooter but he's just a player. Then they defend and/or make excuses for Botterill for taking a similar approach to team building. I would expect more from the guy who is supposed to be the subject matter expert and in charge of roster personnel. Botterill's approach is the same thing, throw everything at the wall and see what sticks and if that made Kane a stupid player then it definitely shouldn't speak well for Pugsley's older, fatter doppleganger.

Edited September 9, 2019 by LGR4GM

[Brawndo]

 

[Randall Flagg]

Back on the ice as in skating for the first time, or ready for NHL action?

[shrader]

11 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Back on the ice as in skating for the first time, or ready for NHL action?

The difference in wording between the two is curious.

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

Back on the ice as in skating for the first time, or ready for NHL action?

I would think if Pulit is actually practicing already, he would have said it. My guess is Pulit isn’t even skating on the ice yet. With all the media, there’s no way Pilut will begin skating/practicing without everyone and their brother knowing about it. Another pure guess is he’ll begin skating and practicing sometime in October, and make it into the line up mid to late October.

?‍♂️

[Brawndo]

4 hours ago, Drunkard said:

Why would Bogosian take one for the team like that and completely destroy any chance he has at getting a good deal in free agency? It's not happening. He's already labeled as injury prone. There's zero chance he just decides to sit out on the last year of his contract unless our dart thrower/GM does something really stupid like sign him to a big money extension before hand.

He might not have a choice as it’s up to the Sabres Medical Staff when he is cleared to return to play and The Team’s Management does hold some of sway over these decisions. 

Bogosian can appeal to an independent arbitrator through the NHLPA, but the Sabres can mention that he has surgery on the same hip twice in as many offseasons  and that a full year of rehab is the best for him. They can also argue that he has not been able to play in more than 65 games in any of his full seasons with the Sabres and that they need his roster spot and cap space for someone who will be on the ice. 

In terms of his next FA Deal, look at Jake Gardiner who was labeled an injury risk after missing 20 games. He got a 4 year 16 Million Dollar deal despite being the the best UFA D Man on the market. He has played in 93% of his regular season games in the past four  years compared to 64% for Bogo. If Bogosian is expecting to cash in next summer, I believe he is in for a mild surprise. 

[Drunkard]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

He traded 17 games of Kane for essentially Montour in the end but it was a 1st, 4th, and OReagan. So basically he traded Kane for a first. that first became Montour with the addition of Guhle. The Kane trade was fine. 

 

to the bolded, really? That's what you are now going with? 

The reason it was only 17 games of Kane was because fatter Pugsley decided to stick to his ridiculous demand of 4 pieces including a first for Kane for 5 months or so. He didn't even get his price anyway and he was fortunate that the conditional first came to fruition with the Sharks extending him. Once he knew he wasn't going to extend him (likely before the season even started) he should have traded him then. 82 games of Kane likely would have netted a better price than 17 games of him. More teams likely would have held interest as well given that come deadline time only teams battling for playoff spots are looking to acquire rentals.

I think the trade ended up as Kane and Guhle for Montour and scraps (a 4th and Danny O'Reagan).

[Drunkard]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

He might not have a choice as it’s up to the Sabres Medical Staff when he is cleared to return to play and The Team’s Management does hold some of sway over these decisions. 

Bogosian can appeal to an independent arbitrator through the NHLPA, but the Sabres can mention that he has surgery on the same hip twice in as many offseasons  and that a full year of rehab is the best for him. They can also argue that he has not been able to play in more than 65 games in any of his full seasons with the Sabres and that they need his roster spot and cap space for someone who will be on the ice. 

In terms of his next FA Deal, look at Jake Gardiner who was labeled an injury risk after missing 20 games. He got a 4 year 16 Million Dollar deal despite being the the best UFA D Man on the market. He has played in 93% of his regular season games in the past four  years compared to 64% for Bogo. If Bogosian is expecting to cash in next summer, I believe he is in for a mild surprise. 

I think it's a pipe dream. No way he let's himself get shelved to buy the Sabres cap space. The only times things like that usually happen are when the player is on board like when Hossa's skin condition magically got too unbearable to deal with at the exact same time than his annual salary dropped to relative peanuts. If they tried this and he has any brain cells in his head, he'll scream bloody murder to the players association and his attorney and create a PR nightmare that the stewards of hockey heaven would want to avoid.

[Ho-Chi-Sock]

1 hour ago, Drunkard said:

The reason it was only 17 games of Kane was because fatter Pugsley decided to stick to his ridiculous demand of 4 pieces including a first for Kane for 5 months or so. He didn't even get his price anyway and he was fortunate that the conditional first came to fruition with the Sharks extending him. Once he knew he wasn't going to extend him (likely before the season even started) he should have traded him then. 82 games of Kane likely would have netted a better price than 17 games of him. More teams likely would have held interest as well given that come deadline time only teams battling for playoff spots are looking to acquire rentals.

I think the trade ended up as Kane and Guhle for Montour and scraps (a 4th and Danny O'Reagan).

Try "Big Dumm DooDooHead." That tested really when in my focus group.

[Randall Flagg]

Saw on twitter that Skinner had more rebound goals than any other NHL player last year. Twitter Chad made the salient point that we should't be so quick to get mad if Jack's early season goal totals aren't where we'd want them to be while that is happening. Remember how he was pacing for like 10 goals for about two months before a three game stretch where he upped that pace to the ~30 he finished with

 

[Thorner]

^ Ya and I remember when Jack was shooting for rebounds and Skinner was cashing, especially earlier in the season, some were lamenting Jack’s lower goal totals. Never made sense because he was getting the important points. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

^ Ya and I remember when Jack was shooting for rebounds and Skinner was cashing, especially earlier in the season, some were lamenting Jack’s goal lower totals. Never made sense because he was getting the important points. 

And Jack's always been a streaky goal scorer. Two goals in four weeks, and then he sees Toronto and Philly consecutively and pumps in 5 real quick

[Brawndo]

4 hours ago, Drunkard said:

I think it's a pipe dream. No way he let's himself get shelved to buy the Sabres cap space. The only times things like that usually happen are when the player is on board like when Hossa's skin condition magically got too unbearable to deal with at the exact same time than his annual salary dropped to relative peanuts. If they tried this and he has any brain cells in his head, he'll scream bloody murder to the players association and his attorney and create a PR nightmare that the stewards of hockey heaven would want to avoid.

You might want to delve a little deeper into Bogosian’s Injury History particularly the fact both of his hips have required surgery in the past two off seasons. Doctors can begin to use the term chronic and degenerative when describing conditions such as this, an easier pathway to justifying LTIR.  Ryan Kesler is expected to spend the whole season on LTIR after undergoing hip surgery.  Albeit a different type of surgery I believe. 

Bogosian could raise hell, but the Sabres would have a defensible position. Besides the Pegula’s are known league wide for treating their players and families quite well and he has been treated well to the tune of 25.5 Million Dollars over the past five years, for a lot of missed time. So there might be at least some hesitation to push back. 

In terms of a PR Nightmare, let’s review what has happened since 2015.

A center who drove his car into a Tim Horton’s less than a week after becoming the highest paid Sabre in team history. 

A winger who got into a bar fight while all of the NHL’ s Media was assembled in your city for the draft. 

The brother of said Center treating a first round draft choice like crap the whole season he lived with him. 

Your Former GM shouting obscenities at Swedish Hockey Federation Officials, after a presentation to the GMs Meetings about why Swedish Players should return to the SHL for development rather than the AHL. ( See Above) 

The same GM calling one of the owners a *unt. 

A player saying He lost his love for the game.

The trade of said player. 

Seven consecutive bottom ten finishes. 

This organization has become well versed in difficult PR situations. 

A disgruntled, injury prone defenseman who is upset about spending a year on LTIR after collecting over 25 Million Dollars for 5 years, would be a walk in the park for them. Sabres Fans are already looking forward to him being off the books in 2020-21. 

Do I expect this to happen? Nope, as there does appear to be any other UFAs the Sabres would be interested in signing after Gardiner. Bogosian will probably be back playing games by November and be out again come January. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Bravo @Brawndo

Honestly Okposo and Bog should go on LTIR and stay there.  Bogo because I believe he does have degenerate hip issues and Okposo because one more bad concussion and his life is ruined.  

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

12 hours ago, Drunkard said:

I think it's a pipe dream. No way he let's himself get shelved to buy the Sabres cap space. The only times things like that usually happen are when the player is on board like when Hossa's skin condition magically got too unbearable to deal with at the exact same time than his annual salary dropped to relative peanuts. If they tried this and he has any brain cells in his head, he'll scream bloody murder to the players association and his attorney and create a PR nightmare that the stewards of hockey heaven would want to avoid.

Pipe dream?

isn't it possible that the bolded is happening? Chronic condition that has hampered his playing time over his career. Now, after surguries and years of missing games (not to mention that he'll be 30 next summer) who would want to pay him anywhere near $5Mil /yr to play? Might he be considering retiring? I don't think it's a pipe dream at all, Zach is a competitor though, so do I think he will let it happen? Maybe not. Might it be the best thing for him LT? Maybe.

Whatever happens I wish him the best. I always liked what he brought to the table when healthy.

[Drunkard]

44 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Pipe dream?

isn't it possible that the bolded is happening? Chronic condition that has hampered his playing time over his career. Now, after surguries and years of missing games (not to mention that he'll be 30 next summer) who would want to pay him anywhere near $5Mil /yr to play? Might he be considering retiring? I don't think it's a pipe dream at all, Zach is a competitor though, so do I think he will let it happen? Maybe not. Might it be the best thing for him LT? Maybe.

Whatever happens I wish him the best. I always liked what he brought to the table when healthy.

Yes, pipe dream. There are tons of differences between the cases. Hossa was much older (38) when he pulled his scam and because his contract was set up under the previous CBA it was severely front loaded and the lion's share of the money was already paid out. He never had any intention of playing those last 4 years for $1 million per season, they were only put in to artificially lower the AAV of the contract.

Bogosian is 29 and his contract pays more in the later seasons than it did in the later part. As slim as his chances are right now that he's going to land some long term lucrative deal (say a 10% chance) those chances drop to basically zero if he agreed to let them just shelve him on the last year of his deal. On the other hand if he can someone manage to defy the odds and his personal history and actually stay healthy enough to play and perform, his odds of landing a better deal increase.

It's much easier to pull a scam like the Blackhawks did when both parties are on board. I don't see the financial upside for Bogosian whatsoever. Sure it's probably better for his health to retire, but if he valued his health over his income he either wouldn't have ever played in the NHL to begin with or he would have retired 17 injuries ago.

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/arizona-coyotes/marian-hossa-2021/

[nfreeman]

I agree with @Drunkard that Bogo is pretty unlikely to agree to LTIR.  If he plays 65+ games this year and has a decent season (2 big ifs, to be sure), someone is likely to give him a 3-year deal, which could easily be the last NHL contract he gets.  OTOH, if he is on LTIR all year, he's looking at training camp tryouts the following year.

However, @Brawndo is certainly right IMHO that the Sabres have a strong case if they want to push for LTIR.

[Brawndo]

From Friedman's 31 Thoughts 

27. There’ve been rumblings that Sabres players have been pleasantly surprised by their meetings with new coach Ralph Krueger. Eichel confirmed that in Chicago. 

 

“I’ll tell you, I went to meet him for a cup of coffee in Slovakia (World Championships) and ended up going to dinner for three hours,” the captain said. “I was extremely blown away by my meeting with him. If he says that he does something, it makes you want to do it. He started talking to me about Bikram Yoga and how much he loved it, so I went and tried Bikram Yoga.”

 

 

Eichel joked that he sweats a lot, so he fit in nicely. 

 

“He brings the best out of people. I don’t think we had one negative conversation the whole summer. He’s very calculated. He knows what he wants to do and has a plan for it. Nothing’s spur of the moment. Nothing emotional for him, he’s very thought out. I think it will be very good for us.” 

 

Eichel said their conversations spanned more than just hockey, with topics including “rock and roll, cars, travelling, everything.”

He confirmed that Krueger has good taste in music as he likes 70’s Rock 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

8 hours ago, Drunkard said:

Yes, pipe dream. There are tons of differences between the cases. Hossa was much older (38) when he pulled his scam and because his contract was set up under the previous CBA it was severely front loaded and the lion's share of the money was already paid out. He never had any intention of playing those last 4 years for $1 million per season, they were only put in to artificially lower the AAV of the contract.

Bogosian is 29 and his contract pays more in the later seasons than it did in the later part. As slim as his chances are right now that he's going to land some long term lucrative deal (say a 10% chance) those chances drop to basically zero if he agreed to let them just shelve him on the last year of his deal. On the other hand if he can someone manage to defy the odds and his personal history and actually stay healthy enough to play and perform, his odds of landing a better deal increase.

It's much easier to pull a scam like the Blackhawks did when both parties are on board. I don't see the financial upside for Bogosian whatsoever. Sure it's probably better for his health to retire, but if he valued his health over his income he either wouldn't have ever played in the NHL to begin with or he would have retired 17 injuries ago.

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/arizona-coyotes/marian-hossa-2021/

I'm not suggesting anything like a scam or "playing the system" and am only suggesting that the timing for him to get out may be now. He's likely already risked be in a wheelchair later on and I don't mean at 85. He's not likely to get a great contract so why risk any further damage. He keeps in great shape and yet still has these problems. 

[Weave]

32 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I'm not suggesting anything like a scam or "playing the system" and am only suggesting that the timing for him to get out may be now. He's likely already risked be in a wheelchair later on and I don't mean at 85. He's not likely to get a great contract so why risk any further damage. He keeps in great shape and yet still has these problems. 

That is exactly what Brawndo is suggesting though.

[Eleven]

19 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Your Former GM shouting obscenities at Swedish Hockey Federation Officials, after a presentation to the GMs Meetings about why Swedish Players should return to the SHL for development rather than the AHL. ( See Above) 

I don't remember this.  (I also don't want to derail the thread.) What happened here?