2019-2020 Lineup

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

There is still a very realistic chance that there are 2 more moves.  Granted, they'd be 2nd pairing and middle 6 moves, but not sure that it can be said that 95% of the roster is set nor that any remaining moves are only going to effect the lower levels.

If we acquire anyone that is "middle 6" that's another way of saying "third line". We need a bonafide top 6 forward addition to move the needle. 

20 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Not even close.  There is legit competition for 6 roster spots which about or about 25% of the roster.  There is also 6 forwards slots in the top 9 where we aren’t sure about linemates and position sloting.  Add that outside Miller Montour and Dahlin we have no idea who the other 3 starting 3 D are going to be and whom everyone will be paired with. 

That isn’t close to a 95% set roster.

95% of the players that will play hockey for the Buffalo Sabres this season are already here. And 90% of those guys were in the system last year. 

I don't give a rat's arse about how the competition among Girgensons, Larsson, Rodrigues, Sheary, Vesey, Okposo, Olofsson, CJ Smith, Ruotalainen, Nelson, McCabe, Scandella, Gilmour, etc etc etc etc for days shakes out as acquiring seemingly endless amounts of non-impact players hoping one will rise to the top of muck is not a very good strategy, in my estimation. 

Skinner - Eichel - X

Johansson - X - Reinhart

Olofsson - Rodrigues - Sheary

Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo

Dahlin - Montour

McCabe - Ristolainen

Scandella - Miller

Hutton

Ullmark

....thats the roster. X represents positions that cannot be adequately filled without further moves, and no player unlisted in this lineup has a realistic shot of usurping anyone else's spot for the better, unless it's in a marginal capacity in the lower half of the roster. Outside of Pilut and Jokiharju on the back-end. Olofsson and Johansson could trade places hypothetically. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Thorny

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

If we acquire anyone that is "middle 6" that's another way of saying "third line". We need a bonafide top 6 forward addition to move the needle. 

95% of the players that will play hockey for the Buffalo Sabres this season are already here. And 90% of those guys were in the system last year. 

I don't give a rat's arse about how the competition among Girgensons, Larsson, Rodrigues, Sheary, Vesey, Okposo, Olofsson, CJ Smith, Ruotalainen, Nelson, McCabe, Scandella, Gilmour, etc etc etc etc for days shakes out as acquiring seemingly endless amounts of non-impact players hoping one will rise to the top of muck is not a very good strategy, in my estimation. 

Skinner - Eichel - X

Johansson - X - Reinhart

Olofsson - Rodrigues - Sheary

Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo

Dahlin - Montour

McCabe - Ristolainen

Scandella - Miller

Hutton

Ullmark

....thats the roster. X represents positions that cannot be adequately filled without further moves, and no player unlisted in this lineup has a realistic shot of usurping anyone else's spot for the better, unless it's in a marginal capacity in the lower half of the roster. Outside of Pilut and Jokiharju on the back-end. Olofsson and Johansson could trade places hypothetically. 

Forgot Mitts

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

If we acquire anyone that is "middle 6" that's another way of saying "third line". We need a bonafide top 6 forward addition to move the needle.

95% of the players that will play hockey for the Buffalo Sabres this season are already here. And 90% of those guys were in the system last year. 

I don't give a rat's arse about how the competition among Girgensons, Larsson, Rodrigues, Sheary, Vesey, Okposo, Olofsson, CJ Smith, Ruotalainen, Nelson, McCabe, Scandella, Gilmour, etc etc etc etc for days shakes out as acquiring seemingly endless amounts of non-impact players hoping one will rise to the top of muck is not a very good strategy, in my estimation. 

Skinner - Eichel - X

Johansson - X - Reinhart

Olofsson - Rodrigues - Sheary

Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo

Dahlin - Montour

McCabe - Ristolainen

Scandella - Miller

Hutton

Ullmark

....thats the roster. X represents positions that cannot be adequately filled without further moves, and no player unlisted in this lineup has a realistic shot of usurping anyone else's spot for the better, unless it's in a marginal capacity in the lower half of the roster. Outside of Pilut and Jokiharju on the back-end. Olofsson and Johansson could trade places hypothetically. 

The Sabres do need 1-2 more quality 2nd liners.  Last I checked, guys that play on and top out at line 2 are "middle 6ers" (and yes, they are also "top 6ers" ).  But unless it becomes a very large trade, Ristolainen isn't landing a top end 2nd line guy that wouldn't be terribly out of place on the 1st line.  But he could land (Especially if it's a winger) a legit 2nd liner (or a young guy that's extremely close) or a 2nd/3rd line C that would be better than the other options at 2C.

And either of those guys in and of themselves makes this whole jumble doable as the Sabres now have a good 1st, 3rd, and 4th line and a serviceable 2nd line.  Combined with an improved (on paper) D and a goaltending tandem that won't be getting coached all year to overcompensate moving across the crease, provided Krueger is at least average as a coach (not necessarily a given) this team is in the mix legitimately this season.

And honestly, if this team DOESN'T have a better option at 2C, I give serious consideration to putting Olofsson (or other should Johansson or Sheary work better) -Eichel -Reinhart out as the top line with Skinner on an island driving the 2nd line (sorry Jeff, welcome back to Carolina for 1 final season) so they can have a very good top line, a good 3 & 4, and a 2nd line that is kind of dysfunctional but at least dangerous in both ends.

[dudacek]

I keep coming around to this team being only a good 2C from everything falling into place nicely as a playoff roster. We have most of the other pieces in place, including the most crucial, hardest to acquire.

Franchise centre: Eichel

Sniper: Skinner

1st line winger: Reinhart

2C: (Mittelstadt, Cozens)

2ndry scoring x4: Johansson Vesey, Sheary, Okposo (Olofsson, Thompson, Smith, Cozens)

3C Rodrigues (Cozens, Asplund, Ruotsalainen, Davidsson)

10th forward: Rodrigues (Davidsson, Ruotsalainen, Pekar)

Grinders x3: Larsson, Girgensons, Okposo, Wilson, Lazar (Asplund, Pekar, Davidsson, Smith)

Franchise defencemen: Dahlin

2nd pairing x2: Ristolainen, Montour (Jokiharju, Johnson, Samuelsson)

Defenders: McCabe, Bogosian, Scandella (Johnson, Samuelsson)

Attackers: Miller, Pilut (Laaksonen)

Starters: (Ullmark, Luukkonnen)

Backup: Hutton, Ullmark

3rd pairing x2

Starter

Backup

Edited September 3, 2019 by dudacek

[WildCard]

 

[Thorner]

 

 

[triumph_communes]

This is going to be an exciting training camp. 

 

I also still think Risto is moved for more forwards, making camp even crazier. 

[dudacek]

This is quite interesting.

The Sabres apparently have a top 10 D corps

https://thehockeywriters.com/ranking-nhl-teams-by-defencemen/

Edited September 3, 2019 by dudacek

[SwampD]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This is quite interesting.

The Sabres apparently have a top 10 D corps

https://thehockeywriters.com/ranking-nhl-teams-by-defencemen/

But, but, but,... solo zone exits...

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, SwampD said:

But, but, but,... solo zone exits...

What about them?

[North Buffalo]

So looks hockey writers see a lot of talent, just no idea how all the moving parts fit together... yup...

[Curt]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

This is quite interesting.

The Sabres apparently have a top 10 D corps

https://thehockeywriters.com/ranking-nhl-teams-by-defencemen/

But they also have Toronto in the top 10 and ahead of Buffalo.  I don’t see how the 7th best D unit in the league can have Cody Ceci in the top 4.  I guess I’m just saying that I’m not taking this list too seriously.

Sabres D looks much improved over last season though, of course.

[Thorner]

14 hours ago, dudacek said:

This is quite interesting.

The Sabres apparently have a top 10 D corps

https://thehockeywriters.com/ranking-nhl-teams-by-defencemen/

If we move Ristolainen, maybe we can get that up to top 5. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Thorny

[triumph_communes]

14 hours ago, dudacek said:

This is quite interesting.

The Sabres apparently have a top 10 D corps

https://thehockeywriters.com/ranking-nhl-teams-by-defencemen/

Toronto has the 7th best with top-pairing Cody Ceci; You sure this isn't a satire piece?

Edited September 3, 2019 by triumph_communes

[Randall Flagg]

It's pretty crazy that they had us in the top ten with Scandella in their top six. 

I like our defense, I think it's league average with the potential for Dahlin to pull it higher. 

The real crime is Columbus at 11 and Minnesota at 16 - the stats indicate that Minnesota's defense is the one closest to St. Louis in terms of shot/quality shot suppression. And Spurgeon/Dumba can move pucks all day. 

[Thorner]

Skinner - Eichel - Sheary

Johansson - Rodrigues - Reinhart

Olofsson - Mittelstadt - Vesey

Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo

To me this represents the not too hot, not too cold, just right configuration for the pieces we have here right now. Our best chance of success. We aren't expecting Eichel to be Crosby, we still have the Skinner - Eichel dynamic duo. 

Reinhart and Johansson should represent a good winger combination and seem to mesh stylistically, and the relatively steady nature of Rodrigues may give us a solid yet unspectacular line 2. Importantly, we shouldn't be deathly afraid to put lines 1, 2, and 4 out there in any situation, hopefully allowing us to heavily shelter line 3 with offensive zone starts, allowing them the best chance to add something to this team.

Mittelstadt's development won't be stunted in this scenario, we have the wings now to give him some firepower to play with (Olofsson), and we are combining the players we most need sheltered onto one line. They would at least have some offensive firepower. 

If we can get a Roslovic or a Kase in here, put that guy on line 1 for a truly balanced line and find a place for either Sheary, Vesey, or Okposo in the press box. Risto goes out the door in that move allowing us to maximize the D corps with Jokiharju. 

Dahlin - Miller

Pilut - Montour

McCabe - Jokiharju

Edited September 3, 2019 by Thorny

[SABRES 0311]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Skinner - Eichel - Sheary

Johansson - Rodrigues - Reinhart

Olofsson - Mittelstadt - Vesey

Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo

To me this represents the not too hot, not too cold, just right configuration for the pieces we have here right now. Our best chance of success. We aren't expecting Eichel to be Crosby, we still have the Skinner - Eichel dynamic duo. 

Reinhart and Johansson should represent a good winger combination and seem to mesh stylistically, and the relatively steady nature of Rodrigues may give us a solid yet unspectacular line 2. Importantly, we shouldn't be deathly afraid to put lines 1, 2, and 4 out there in any situation, hopefully allowing us to heavily shelter line 3 with offensive zone starts, allowing them the best chance to add something to this team.

Mittelstadt's development won't be stunted in this scenario, we have the wings now to give him some firepower to play with (Olofsson), and we are combining the players we most need sheltered onto one line. They would at least have some offensive firepower. 

If we can get a Roslovic or a Kase in here, put that guy on line 1 for a truly balanced line and find a place for either Sheary, Vesey, or Okposo in the press box. Risto goes out the door in that move allowing us to maximize the D corps with Jokiharju. 

Dahlin - Miller

Pilut - Montour

McCabe - Jokiharju

I’d keep Mitts on the second line. I’d rather he work with Johansson and Sam than Vesey and Olofsson in terms of developing. Olofsson has little experience and Vesey hasn’t lived up to expectations yet.

ERod’s steady nature might also help Olofsson’s development.

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Skinner - Eichel - Sheary

Johansson - Rodrigues - Reinhart

Olofsson - Mittelstadt - Vesey

Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo

To me this represents the not too hot, not too cold, just right configuration for the pieces we have here right now. Our best chance of success. We aren't expecting Eichel to be Crosby, we still have the Skinner - Eichel dynamic duo. 

Reinhart and Johansson should represent a good winger combination and seem to mesh stylistically, and the relatively steady nature of Rodrigues may give us a solid yet unspectacular line 2. Importantly, we shouldn't be deathly afraid to put lines 1, 2, and 4 out there in any situation, hopefully allowing us to heavily shelter line 3 with offensive zone starts, allowing them the best chance to add something to this team.

Mittelstadt's development won't be stunted in this scenario, we have the wings now to give him some firepower to play with (Olofsson), and we are combining the players we most need sheltered onto one line. They would at least have some offensive firepower. 

If we can get a Roslovic or a Kase in here, put that guy on line 1 for a truly balanced line and find a place for either Sheary, Vesey, or Okposo in the press box. Risto goes out the door in that move allowing us to maximize the D corps with Jokiharju. 

Dahlin - Miller

Pilut - Montour

McCabe - Jokiharju

Barring additional moves (which still can happen, there are well over a handful of quality RFAs waiting to get deals which can definitely open stuff up) really believe that Rodrigues supported (led) by Reinhart (or Skinner) gives them the best chance of having more than just an effective 1st line and 4th line.

Rodrigues ISN'T a 2C, but he's most likely significantly closer than Mittelstadt at this time.  Having Reinhart (or Skinner) there would still force other teams to at least play them honestly as they'd be able to overmatch the other team's bottom line (while that team was looking to overmatch the Mitts line).

Best case, barring trade, Johansson shows he can at C like he did in Washington but it doesn't seem like that's the plan as most any talk of him from management was that he's a wing.

 

[Thorner]

38 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I’d keep Mitts on the second line. I’d rather he work with Johansson and Sam than Vesey and Olofsson in terms of developing. Olofsson has little experience and Vesey hasn’t lived up to expectations yet.

ERod’s steady nature might also help Olofsson’s development.

Mittelstadt in my estimation is just not ready for the minutes the Reinhart line must command. And I'm not sacrificing the good of the team for Mittelstadt's development, especially when he'd be in line for more sheltered, offensive minutes should he play on line 3, and still with a talented player with a potential Olofsson pairing. 

I'd rather one solid, reliable line, and one in-need-of-sheltering line in the middle 6 than two slightly below average lines. Rodrigues on line 2 gives us the most lines (3) I'd be comfortable out there in most situations. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Thorny

[Thorner]

33 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Barring additional moves (which still can happen, there are well over a handful of quality RFAs waiting to get deals which can definitely open stuff up) really believe that Rodrigues supported (led) by Reinhart (or Skinner) gives them the best chance of having more than just an effective 1st line and 4th line.

Rodrigues ISN'T a 2C, but he's most likely significantly closer than Mittelstadt at this time.  Having Reinhart (or Skinner) there would still force other teams to at least play them honestly as they'd be able to overmatch the other team's bottom line (while that team was looking to overmatch the Mitts line).

Best case, barring trade, Johansson shows he can at C like he did in Washington but it doesn't seem like that's the plan as most any talk of him from management was that he's a wing.

 

I'm not totally opposed to moving Skinner to line 2 instead of Reinhart, but I think moving Reinhart provides the most balance. A configuration of:

Johansson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - Rodrigues - Sheary

...leaves 2 non-top 6 quality players on the same line in Rodrigues and Sheary. 

I mean I'm thinking, HOPEFULLY, there's a bigger difference between Reinhart and Sheary than Skinner and Johansson. 

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

I'm not totally opposed to moving Skinner to line 2 instead of Reinhart, but I think moving Reinhart provides the most balance. A configuration of:

Johansson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - Rodrigues - Sheary

...leaves 2 non-top 6 quality players on the same line in Rodrigues and Sheary. 

I mean I'm thinking, HOPEFULLY, there's a bigger difference between Reinhart and Sheary than Skinner and Johansson. 

If Skinner and Eichel are separated, the 1st guy I'd try with Eichel and Reinhart would be Olofsson. 

That would allow them to put Johansson on the 2nd line making it close to a legit 2, or keep that 2nd line you proposed with Johansson & Vesey supporting Mittelstadt.

And based on comments by Botterill this off season, I'd guess that Botterill & Krueger are with most of SS in that they'll have Reinhart "driving" the 2nd line.

(And at $9MM/yr, yes, Jeff should be able to score 30 goals even with Rodrigues & Sheary providing support.  (And playing w/ Jack all year makes anything less than 40 a disappointment.))

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

If Skinner and Eichel are separated, the 1st guy I'd try with Eichel and Reinhart would be Olofsson. 

That would allow them to put Johansson on the 2nd line making it close to a legit 2, or keep that 2nd line you proposed with Johansson & Vesey supporting Mittelstadt.

And based on comments by Botterill this off season, I'd guess that Botterill & Krueger are with most of SS in that they'll have Reinhart "driving" the 2nd line.

(And at $9MM/yr, yes, Jeff should be able to score 30 goals even with Rodrigues & Sheary providing support.  (And playing w/ Jack all year makes anything less than 40 a disappointment.))

I’m good with the first half of that bolded but not really the second, if you are referring to the Skinner - Rodrigues - Sheary line I proposed. Didn’t really like that as a second line. 

I’d prefer moving Reinhart to line 2 but a Skinner - Rodrigues - Johansson line could work. Although that leaves us with Sheary - Mittelstadt - Vesey (if Olofsson goes to line 1) and I’m not much a fan of that. I’d rather let Mittelstadt keep Olofsson or Johansson. And that means Sheary on line one hopefully buoyed up by Eichel and one of Skinner/Reinhart. 

Skinner - Eichel - Sheary

Johansson - E-Rod - Reinhart 

Olofsson - Mitts - Vesey

or

Sheary - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - E-Rod - Johansson

Olofsson - Mitts - Vesey 

..where Johansson and Olofsson can switch in either scenario. 

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Thorny

[dudacek]

18 hours ago, Curt said:

But they also have Toronto in the top 10 and ahead of Buffalo.  I don’t see how the 7th best D unit in the league can have Cody Ceci in the top 4.  I guess I’m just saying that I’m not taking this list too seriously.

Sabres D looks much improved over last season though, of course.

If you define 1st pairing offensive defencemen as defencemen who finish in the top 62 in scoring, we have four of them.

Dahlin 23, Ristolainen 26, Montour 41, Miller 60

9 hours ago, Thorny said:

. 

If we can get a Roslovic or a Kase in here, put that guy on line 1 for a truly balanced line and find a place for either Sheary, Vesey, or Okposo in the press box. Risto goes out the door in that move allowing us to maximize the D corps with Jokiharju. 

This always surprises me. Roslovic put up 9 goals and 24 points last year.

That’s worse than the worst full seasons any of Okposo, Sheary, Vesey and Mittelstadt have ever put up.

I get that he’s young and has upside, but I don’t understand the idea that is a clear upgrade over those guys this season.

Edited September 4, 2019 by dudacek

[#freejame]

I’d like to see:

Olofsson-Eichel-Mantha

Skinner-Mitts-Reinhart

Johansson-Rodriguez-Vesey

Zemgus-Larry-KO

 

Dahlin-Montour

Gardiner-Miller

McCabe-Joker

 

I think we would need to move about a million in salary to become cap compliant, but I’m sure there’s ways around that (cough cough Sobotka)

 

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, Thorny said:

I’m good with the first half of that bolded but not really the second, if you are referring to the Skinner - Rodrigues - Sheary line I proposed. Didn’t really like that as a second line. 

I’d prefer moving Reinhart to line 2 but a Skinner - Rodrigues - Johansson line could work. Although that leaves us with Sheary - Mittelstadt - Vesey (if Olofsson goes to line 1) and I’m not much a fan of that. I’d rather let Mittelstadt keep Olofsson or Johansson. And that means Sheary on line one hopefully buoyed up by Eichel and one of Skinner/Reinhart. 

Skinner - Eichel - Sheary

Johansson - E-Rod - Reinhart 

Olofsson - Mitts - Vesey

or

Sheary - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - E-Rod - Johansson

Olofsson - Mitts - Vesey 

..where Johansson and Olofsson can switch in either scenario. 

 

Sheary on the top line makes me want to barf. He is the very definition of an offensive passenger.