2019-2020 Lineup

[nfreeman]

Pominville has been done like dinner for a couple of years now IMHO.  I will be pretty surprised, and disappointed, if the Sabres sign him.

[darksabre]

6 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

You quoted the wrong person if you take exception to the use of the word “slow”.

Hitting the "brick wall" is the same as slow. 

[Zamboni]

Just now, darksabre said:

Hitting the "brick wall" is the same as slow. 

Not in my vocabulary. I typed what I meant. 

For clarity (because it needs it I guess) ... his speed is average. Not fast, not slow. He absolutely loses a gear as the season wears on. It’s noticeable. That also doesn’t mean he’s slow. He noticeably hits a wall with awareness and sharpness as the season wears on. And his stamina  throughout his shifts suffer noticeably too. There’s a obvious reason the Wild had him on the 3rd line and sometimes 4th in his last year there. Same goes for last year in Buffalo. I like Pomms, I do. But it’s just time to walk away from his services.

[darksabre]

4 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Not in my vocabulary. I typed what I meant. 

For clarity (because it needs it I guess) ... his speed is average. Not fast, not slow. He absolutely loses a gear as the season wears on. It’s noticeable. That also doesn’t mean he’s slow. He noticeably hits a wall with awareness and sharpness as the season wears on. And his stamina  throughout his shifts suffer noticeably too. There’s a obvious reason the Wild had him on the 3rd line and sometimes 4th in his last year there. Same goes for last year in Buffalo. I like Pomms, I do. But it’s just time to walk away from his services.

That's called slowing down. Slow.

And I don't agree with it. I think he was misused by not placing him on the 1st line where he could actually contribute.

[Zamboni]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

That's called slowing down. Slow.

And I don't agree with it. I think he was misused by not placing him on the 1st line where he could actually contribute.

And I don’t agree with saying hitting a brick wall and saying a player is slow is the same thing. Touché. Agree to disagree. 

[darksabre]

Just now, Zamboni said:

And I don’t agree with saying hitting a brick wall and saying a player is slow is the same thing. Touché. Agree to disagree. 

It's not agree to disagree. You're just using words wrong.

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, darksabre said:

That's called slowing down. Slow.

And I don't agree with it. I think he was misused by not placing him on the 1st line where he could actually contribute.

The biggest issue with the forwards last year was too many of them (Sheary, Thompson, Okposo, Mittelstadt, Pominville) needed to be carried by good players to be at all effective.

Pominville is the least likely of that bunch to get better.

Edited August 23, 2019 by dudacek

[darksabre]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The biggest issue with the forwards last year was too many of them (Sheary, Thompson, Okposo, Mittelstadt, Pominville) needed to be carried by good players to be at all effective.

Pominville is the least likely of that bunch to get better.

For sure. It's why it made no sense to push him down the roster and stick Reinhart on Jack's wing. Pominville was not the ideal choice, but he was the only choice.

I also think Pominville is still better than Okposo. It's too bad we're stuck with Kyle's contract for 4 more years. One year of Pommers would be way better.

[Zamboni]

22 minutes ago, darksabre said:

It's not agree to disagree. You're just using words wrong.

Nope. I typed what I meant.

[darksabre]

9 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Nope. I typed what I meant.

Yes you did.

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

This narrative about Pominville looking slow last year is one I'm tired of hearing because it's false. He should have played on Eichel's wing all season.

In his second stint with Jack, that lasted ten games, he had 3 points. In the last 7 games of the first stint, he also I had 3 points, if I'm comparing the hockey viz lineup pairs to his game log correctly. I don't know a smoother way to do this, but that's 6 points in his last 17 games with Jack while being a slow-skating anchor the way he was for him in 17-18. If these numbers are wrong, they're only a game or so off, because for some reason Micah doesn't, like, label his game columns.

This team doesn't have roster spots to spend on Jason Pominville. Who I adore. But we need to be real here. Fancy stats can't see how plays that should materialize never do because of Jason's footspeed - sure, he can make the "right play" given his own circumstances, which are severely limited by the weakened physical skills/abilities, but too often that "correct decision" happening is worse for the team than the array of options an able-bodied player in his place would have at his disposal instead. When you point out that Jason basically needs to be stapled to Jack to have production, well, it's more critical than ever that Jack's wings are able to win those races and puck battles, rather than just be capable of meekly picking spots and being pragmatic. 

It really was a great run that line had in November, but I'm already having trouble shoving Vesey into a roster spot when projecting a defenseman-for-forward move, I just don't see any serious reason for bringing Pominville back to this team

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

This narrative about Pominville looking slow last year is one I'm tired of hearing because it's false. He should have played on Eichel's wing all season.

I would also argue that Pomminstein was not alone in his back half of the year slide. Skinner, Eichel, Reinhart, Dahlin every single one of these players had a horrid January and February. (I did not specifically check the numbers but I know they slipped after November). 

I think Pominville holds more value playing on the 4th line than Sobotka. I also think Okposo gets 3rd line duties. I would cut Sobotka and sign Pommers today and tomorrow. 

[nfreeman]

26 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I also think Pominville is still better than Okposo. It's too bad we're stuck with Kyle's contract for 4 more years. One year of Pommers would be way better.

 

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think Pominville holds more value playing on the 4th line than Sobotka.

I think all of the following can be true and are true:

- Pommer is better than Sobotka

- Pommer on a 1-year deal is preferable to KO on a 4-year deal

- Pommer is not good enough to be on the Sabres this year

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

In his second stint with Jack, that lasted ten games, he had 3 points. In the last 7 games of the first stint, he also I had 3 points, if I'm comparing the hockey viz lineup pairs to his game log correctly. I don't know a smoother way to do this, but that's 6 points in his last 17 games with Jack while being a slow-skating anchor the way he was for him in 17-18. If these numbers are wrong, they're only a game or so off, because for some reason Micah doesn't, like, label his game columns.

This team doesn't have roster spots to spend on Jason Pominville. Who I adore. But we need to be real here. Fancy stats can't see how plays that should materialize never do because of Jason's footspeed - sure, he can make the "right play" given his own circumstances, which are severely limited by the weakened physical skills/abilities, but too often that "correct decision" happening is worse for the team than the array of options an able-bodied player in his place would have at his disposal instead. When you point out that Jason basically needs to be stapled to Jack to have production, well, it's more critical than ever that Jack's wings are able to win those races and puck battles, rather than just be capable of meekly picking spots and being pragmatic. 

It really was a great run that line had in November, but I'm already having trouble shoving Vesey into a roster spot when projecting a defenseman-for-forward move, I just don't see any serious reason for bringing Pominville back to this team

I don't want him on Jack's wing. I want his defensive skills and occasional scoring skills on the 4th line. Then I don't have Sobotka playing on the wrong side on the 4th line or even worse, Sobotka taking Erod's spot on the 3rd line because until proven otherwise, coaches favor veterans (bias). Until Krueger shows that isn't who he is I will continue to assume Sobotka with his faceoff skills (overrated) gets preference and that is the worst. Cut  him the second you can and send him to Rochester. He's a locker room malcontent and piss poor on the ice. 

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

I think all of the following can be true and are true:

- Pommer is better than Sobotka

- Pommer on a 1-year deal is preferable to KO on a 4-year deal

- Pommer is not good enough to be on the Sabres this year

Than Okposo and Sobotka are not good enough to be on the Sabres this year and should be waived. 

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

 

I think all of the following can be true and are true:

- Pommer is better than Sobotka

- Pommer on a 1-year deal is preferable to KO on a 4-year deal

- Pommer is not good enough to be on the Sabres this year

Works for me.

[LGR4GM]

Personally I would like to see Okposo in camp with a new coach before I say that about him. Sobotka was bad in ST Louis and was bad here. He is at best a 4th line fringe NHL player. 

[nfreeman]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Than Okposo and Sobotka are not good enough to be on the Sabres this year and should be waived. 

Waiving Sobotka is a real possibility IMHO.

KO still brings more to the table than Pommer and probably enough to have an NHL roster spot (although I'd be perfectly happy with, say, CJ Smith or Asplund in that spot instead).  I don't think waiving KO this year is realistic, although I can see him getting the Moulson treatment in KO's 2nd-last and last year.

[Randall Flagg]

Skinner - Jack - Vesey
Johansson - Mitts - Reinhart
Olofsson - Rodrigues - Sheary
Zemgus - Larry - Okposo

There's twelve, and I don't think anyone believes we are done making moves, since we have 10 defensemen capable of playing in the NHL. It's time for guys like Smith, Asplund to be injury call-ups too.

It's not a choice of Pominville over Sobotka. I'd rather have Jason than Sobotka too, as our 15th forward. But neither of those guys should see a second of ice time for us in 19-20.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[darksabre]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Skinner - Jack - Vesey
Johansson - Mitts - Reinhart
Olofsson - Rodrigues - Sheary
Zemgus - Larry - Okposo

There's twelve, and I don't think anyone believes we are done making moves, since we have 10 defensemen capable of playing in the NHL. It's time for guys like Smith, Asplund to be injury call-ups too.

It's not a choice of Pominville over Sobotka. I'd rather have Jason than Sobotka too, as our 15th forward. But neither of those guys should see a second of ice time for us in 19-20.

Man, this lineup just isn't inspiring. 

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Man, this lineup just isn't inspiring. 

But somehow Pominville improves it appreciably?

[Randall Flagg]

6 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Man, this lineup just isn't inspiring. 

That's why every opportunity I get I'm adding copious amounts of assets to Ristolainen in trade proposals lol

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

But somehow Pominville improves it appreciably?

I don't think he hurts it either. Which is kinda the problem.

[Doctor of Philhousley]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

That's why every opportunity I get I'm adding copious amounts of assets to Ristolainen in trade proposals lol

Yup. If Botts isn't getting a 2C in offers now, would you go as far as Mitts + Risto for a decent 2C?  

[darksabre]

Listen, all I'm saying with Pominville is that I wouldn't be mad if he was inserted into this roster to fill a hole left by some major surgical changes that *could* happen. 

[Taro T]

Just now, darksabre said:

I don't think he hurts it either. Which is kinda the problem.

Considering there is an elephant on that roster (besides the obvious lack of a 2C) which is the contract of Okposo (not even Kyle himself, his contract) there is no way they should bring back Moulson, er, Pominville as the only place he comes close to fitting on this roster after the end of October is 4RW & designated press box sitter.