2019-2020 Lineup

[Taro T]

To answer the Q from the thread title: no.

[Zamboni]

The roster won’t be what anyone thinks it will be here in August. That’s why I stay away from this exercise ?‍♂️

Summer line combos galore! 

[Zamboni]

3 hours ago, inkman said:

Mitts doesn't need to gain weight, he needs strength. Cut down on the donuts and Fortnight and start hitting the gym. He's a professional athlete, he could at least look like one. Not the kid handing me tacos and the TB drivethru.  

It worked for Kessel, Brodeur, and many many other pro athletes thru the years ?

 

in all seriousness, Mitts will be fine. No need to assume he doesn’t take being a pro athlete seriously. Any hand wringing concern is very premature at this point.

[Thorner]

More likely than not. 

There were 8 NHL trades total from August 12th until before the season began on Oct 3 last year. Only 1 in August from that date on, 3 total in September.

Only two significant moves, the Pacioretty deal and the Karlsson deal. Only one of which was a "hockey trade"  (Pacioretty/Tatar) where true starters went between teams, which is what we are looking for if we move Ristolainen. 

Maybe there will be a bit more action due to the RFAs, but who knows. With so few moves generally taking place between now and when the season starts league wide, I think the betting odds are that this is pretty much our roster. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Thorny

[thewookie1]

I'm getting the sense that this massive number of RFA's is causing anything that may have been done since the Draft to be put on the back burner. 

Is this our roster come opening night; I'm certain a guy will be sent to Rochester to get under the cap at least.

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

On 8/10/2019 at 9:23 AM, Curt said:

That should definitely be a pretty good 4th line.  We have watched it be a pretty good 4th line for like half a season+ already.

What are the chances Okposo is healthy and can play on a 3rd line with Rodriguez and Sheary instead of Girgs and Larry on the 4th?  

The (at least) 3 concussions in 3 years took a toll on his cardio and speed the past few seasons, but he was a 50-60pt player before that, and 45/44pt player in 16-17/17-18.  

I can see him being a 20g/50pt player again if healthy and playing with speedy guys like eRod and Sheary.  

Kyle isn’t playing in da beauty league this year so we have to wait for camp to see, but I think that would give us a strong bottom 6 with Sobotka playing on the 4th line. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

What are the chances Okposo is healthy and can play on a 3rd line with Rodriguez and Sheary instead of Girgs and Larry on the 4th?  

The (at least) 3 concussions in 3 years took a toll on his cardio and speed the past few seasons, but he was a 50-60pt player before that, and 45/44pt player in 16-17/17-18.  

I can see him being a 20g/50pt player again if healthy and playing with speedy guys like eRod and Sheary.  

Kyle isn’t playing in da beauty league this year so we have to wait for camp to see, but I think that would give us a strong bottom 6 with Sobotka playing on the 4th line. 

KO has been Ko’d by the concussions.  He probably shouldn’t be playing at all.  At best we’ll be lucky to get 15g 20a out of him with some 2nd line pp time.  

Honestly for him and the team, it would be best if he hung up the skates and went on LTIR.  I worry about the damage one more bad hit would cause.  

I know he has been cleared, but I think about guys like Savard, Connolly, and LaFontaine and the effects of concussions on their careers

[Tondas]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

KO has been Ko’d by the concussions.  He probably shouldn’t be playing at all.  At best we’ll be lucky to get 15g 20a out of him with some 2nd line pp time.  

Honestly for him and the team, it would be best if he hung up the skates and went on LTIR.  I worry about the damage one more bad hit would cause.  

I know he has been cleared, but I think about guys like Savard, Connolly, and LaFontaine and the effects of concussions on their careers

I'm not saying I disagree, but can a player that's been cleared medically voluntarily opt to be put on LTIR due to the future concern of another concussion?

[steveoath]

The longer this goes on the more my brain is trying to convince me that we're lining up with 3D and 2Fwds ?

[Tondas]

9 minutes ago, steveoath said:

The longer this goes on the more my brain is trying to convince me that we're lining up with 3D and 2Fwds ?

Can't say we don't have experience playing that system:

 

[Weave]

44 minutes ago, Tondas said:

I'm not saying I disagree, but can a player that's been cleared medically voluntarily opt to be put on LTIR due to the future concern of another concussion?

I think they call that gaming the system.  You’re talking about retirement.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Tondas said:

I'm not saying I disagree, but can a player that's been cleared medically voluntarily opt to be put on LTIR due to the future concern of another concussion?

Just get a second opinion saying to continue play with be detrimental to your health and go on LTIR.  

We saw LaFontaine do the opposite after the Sabres told him to quit.  He went and got a second opinion saying he could still play and the Sabres were essentially forced to trade him.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Tondas said:

I'm not saying I disagree, but can a player that's been cleared medically voluntarily opt to be put on LTIR due to the future concern of another concussion?

Considering a violent sneeze can give a concussion prone individual a mild concussion, and considering the willingness the league shows to look the other way when questionable BF-LTIR claims are made; how would anyone ever prove Okposo hasn't suffered another concussion (or even merely a setback from a prior one) should he claim he's been concussed?

Would anyone even try to dispute it beyond following the existing procedures to verify such claims?

[Tondas]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Just get a second opinion saying to continue play with be detrimental to your health and go on LTIR.  

We saw LaFontaine do the opposite after the Sabres told him to quit.  He went and got a second opinion saying he could still play and the Sabres were essentially forced to trade him.

Either you're cleared to play or you're not cleared to play.  A second opinion may get you not cleared to play, and I think that's valid.  But to use a future injury that may never happen to use LTIR is gaming the system.  All players could claim that playing in the NHL COULD lead to a career ending injury.  It's harsh, but the injury has to occur before you can claim LTIR (with a doctor's certification).

[GASabresIUFAN]

13 minutes ago, Tondas said:

Either you're cleared to play or you're not cleared to play.  A second opinion may get you not cleared to play, and I think that's valid.  But to use a future injury that may never happen to use LTIR is gaming the system.  All players could claim that playing in the NHL COULD lead to a career ending injury.  It's harsh, but the injury has to occur before you can claim LTIR (with a doctor's certification).

Disagree.  Cody McCormick was out on LTIR because of future blood clots.  Toronto has gamed the system for years with various injuries.   A long history of concussions is much different then a healthy player going on LTIR because he fears an injury in the future.  Why play?

However, my understanding is that once a player has had a concussion or three the odds of getting another concussion greatly increases s does the odds of a disabling injury.  

Edited August 13, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[Tondas]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Disagree.  Cody McCormick was out on LTIR because of future blood clots.  Toronto has games the system for years with various injuries.  

OK.  Then why don't the Sabres do it with Okposo?  You think they wouldn't do it if they had the chance?  "Kyle, we're going to waive you and have you ride the bus for the next four years in Rochester or you could get paid in full to not play and go on LTIR and live life on a beach?"  Why would Kyle not agree to the LTIR? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, Tondas said:

OK.  Then why don't the Sabres do it with Okposo?  You think they wouldn't do it if they had the chance?  "Kyle, we're going to waive you and have you ride the bus for the next four years in Rochester or you could get paid in full to not play and go on LTIR and live life on a beach?"  Why would Kyle not agree to the LTIR? 

Because he is a competitor and wants to play and earn his $.  I respect this but just don’t think it’s in his longterm interest. 

[Tondas]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Because he is a competitor and wants to play and earn his $.  I respect this but just don’t think it’s in his longterm interest. 

He can get concussed in Rochester just as easily as in Buffalo.  I think there's more to it than Kyle just wants to play.  And if it were the Sabres choice, they would LTIR him tomorrow if that was at all possible.

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, Tondas said:

He can get concussed in Rochester just as easily as in Buffalo.  I think there's more to it than Kyle just wants to play.  And if it were the Sabres choice, they would LTIR him tomorrow if that was at all possible.

Jbot is a former player and respects that KO wants to play and unlike Moulson he can still contribute in places.  That said, he slows anymore and Jbot may just give him the go to Rochester or retire option.

[Curt]

54 minutes ago, Tondas said:

OK.  Then why don't the Sabres do it with Okposo?  You think they wouldn't do it if they had the chance?  "Kyle, we're going to waive you and have you ride the bus for the next four years in Rochester or you could get paid in full to not play and go on LTIR and live life on a beach?"  Why would Kyle not agree to the LTIR? 

I think if it got to the point where he was actually going to be sent to the AHL, then maybe he would consider it.  Who knows.  Thats not the current situation though.  

He is still good enough to play in the NHL.  Chances are that he wants to remain an NHL player as long as he can because he loves hockey and loves the competition of playing at the highest level.  It’s about what he wants in this situation, at this point.  He isn’t yet at the point where choice is being taken out of his hands.

I have no doubt that a player who has suffered multiple concussions and almost died from complications of one could find many doctors to agree that they are not fit to play a highly physical contact sport professional.  

[Tondas]

5 minutes ago, Curt said:

I think if it got to the point where he was actually going to be sent to the AHL, then maybe he would consider it.  Who knows.  Thats not the current situation though.  

He is still good enough to play in the NHL.  Chances are that he wants to remain an NHL player as long as he can because he loves hockey and loves the competition of playing at the highest level.  It’s about what he wants in this situation, at this point.  He isn’t yet at the point where choice is being taken out of his hands.

I have no doubt that a player who has suffered multiple concussions and almost died from complications of one could find many doctors to agree that they are not fit to play a highly physical contact sport professional.  

OK, but shouldn't the Sabres be able to get a 2nd and/or 3rd opinion on that fact?   If a doctor says Kyle is not fit to play, the Sabres get out of a 4 year albatross contract.  Are the Sabres just stupid?  Is it up to Kyle entirely?  Do the Sabres have a say in his medical clearance?  All I hear is that the Kyle contract  is a drain on resources.  Then why not get a doctor to certify this and put him on LTIR?

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Tondas said:

OK, but shouldn't the Sabres be able to get a 2nd and/or 3rd opinion on that fact?   If a doctor says Kyle is not fit to play, the Sabres get out of a 4 year albatross contract.  Are the Sabres just stupid?  Is it up to Kyle entirely?  Do the Sabres have a say in his medical clearance?  All I hear is that the Kyle contract  is a drain on resources.  Then why not get a doctor to certify this and put him on LTIR?

I don’t think it’s really Buffalo’s decision to make.  They can’t force a player onto LTIR.  The player has to agree to it.

[Tondas]

4 minutes ago, Curt said:

I don’t think it’s really Buffalo’s decision to make.  They can’t force a player onto LTIR.  The player has to agree to it.

Curt, you said, "I have no doubt that a player who has suffered multiple concussions and almost died from complications of one could find many doctors to agree that they are not fit to play a highly physical contact sport professional."  Why can Kyle get doctors to certify that but not the team?  Didn't the Sabres walk away from LaFontaine because of the same situation.  I think I'm trying to say that the Sabres are uncomfortable putting Kyle's health at risk, being a good employer. but Kyle is saying, I'll take my chances.  Can the Sabres say they won't take that risk (from their doctors) as they did with LaFontaine?

[Curt]

23 minutes ago, Tondas said:

Curt, you said, "I have no doubt that a player who has suffered multiple concussions and almost died from complications of one could find many doctors to agree that they are not fit to play a highly physical contact sport professional."  Why can Kyle get doctors to certify that but not the team?  Didn't the Sabres walk away from LaFontaine because of the same situation.  I think I'm trying to say that the Sabres are uncomfortable putting Kyle's health at risk, being a good employer. but Kyle is saying, I'll take my chances.  Can the Sabres say they won't take that risk (from their doctors) as they did with LaFontaine?

I have no idea what happened with LaFontaine.  I was 10 and not following the situation.  Whatever was the case then,  I’m sure the rules have changed in the past 20+ years.

I honestly don’t know what happens if a team refuses to clear a player to play, but the player refuses to retire.  I guess trade him like they did with LaFonaine???  Whatever the case, I’m pretty sure that going on LTIR is something that a player agrees to do, not something that a team can force upon a player.  

The whole LTIR thing seems very complicated and some aspects of it are not public knowledge or even in the CBA.  I have to believe that if there was a readily available magic bullet to dissolve Okposo’s cap hit, Buffalo would do that.  I don’t believe that they are complete idiots.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Curt

[Tondas]

5 minutes ago, Curt said:

I have no idea what happened with LaFontaine.  I was 10 and not following the situation.  Whatever was the case then,  I’m sure the rules have changed in the past 20+ years.

I honestly don’t know what happens if a team refuses to clear a player to play, but the player refuses to retire.  I guess trade him like they did with LaFonaine???  Whatever the case, I’m pretty sure that going on LTIR is something that a player agrees to do, not something that a team can force upon a player.

I'm sorry I'm so old.  ?  Fair enough.  But I think LTIR has less to do with the player's wishes than it is has to do with the doctors. lawyers and the players union.