2019-2020 Lineup

[sabresparaavida]

What do you guys think about...

Skinner-Eichel-Vessey

VO-Johansson-Reinhart 

Sheary-Mitts-Erod

Girgs-Larsson-Okposo

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, sabresparaavida said:

What do you guys think about...

Skinner-Eichel-Vessey

VO-Johansson-Reinhart 

Sheary-Mitts-Erod

Girgs-Larsson-Okposo

I think it's a fairly likely and reasonable lineup. 

[darksabre]

God I hope Olofsson turns out to be like... Kotalik or something. We really need that to happen. It would change the entire landscape of this roster.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

Still didn't listen to the interview, but someone on twitter makes it sound like Botts talked about Sheary/Johansson playing either wing, without mentioning center. Which I think is good, I was dubious about the idea of 90 at center. That could help us a bit though. 
Skinner - Jack - Johansson
Olofsson - Mitts - Reinhart
Vesey - Rodrigues - Sheary
Zem - larry - Kyle

At least makes sense for the bulk of the players. Vesey would probably start in Olofsson's spot but I'm being optimistic. Take some of Mitts' sheltering and give it to the 3rd line so they don't give up a hundred goals themselves. That's what I'd do I think, hoping that Johansson fits in stylistically. 

Or something different
Skinner - Jack - VO 
Vesey - Rodrigues - Reinhart
Johansson - Mitts - Sheary
Zemgus - Larry - Kyle

Another thing that Botterill suggested today (it was a good interview, long and relaxed) was that Jack needs to elevate his linemates the way Sidney Crosby typically elevates his.

Which is sort of why I have been increasingly leaning towards Johansson (who can do a lot of things Reinhart does) and Vesey (a pale echo of Skinner) flanking Jack. I could see MJ putting up 50 points and Vesey netting 25 goals.

And that frees up our best two wingers to ride with Mitts, giving him his best chance to succeed. 

Olofsson puts the heat in Vesey, and Rodrigues bumps Casey if Casey fails.

Until Botterill gets us a centre, doesn’t that give us our best chance of 2 decent scoring lines?

Edited August 7, 2019 by dudacek

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

God I hope Olofsson turns out to be like... Kotalik or something. We really need that to happen. It would change the entire landscape of this roster.

He gon' be better than that just you watch 

[Randall Flagg]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Another thing that Botterill suggested today (it was a good interview, long and relaxed) was that Jack needs to elevate his linemates the way Sidney Crosby typically elevates his.

Which is sort of why I have been increasingly leaning towards Johansson (who can do a lot of things Reinhart does) and Vesey (a pale echo of Skinner) flanking Jack. I could see MJ putting up 50 points and Vesey netting 25 goals.

And that frees up our best two wingers to ride with Mitts, giving him his best chance to succeed. 

Olofsson puts the heat in Vesey, and Rodrigues bumps Casey if Casey fails.

Until Botterill gets us a centre, doesn’t that give us our best chance of 2 decent scoring lines?

I would think so. I'm a little worried  that turns Jack's line into what he and Kane were though - plenty of goals completely neutralized by plenty more goals against

Edited August 7, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[darksabre]

3 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

He gon' be better than that just you watch 

That would be tremendous.

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

That would be tremendous.

I was also this confident that the Canadiens got obliterated in the Domi trade so take that for what it's worth lol 

[GASabresIUFAN]

33 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Another thing that Botterill suggested today (it was a good interview, long and relaxed) was that Jack needs to elevate his linemates the way Sidney Crosby typically elevates his.

Which is sort of why I have been increasingly leaning towards Johansson (who can do a lot of things Reinhart does) and Vesey (a pale echo of Skinner) flanking Jack. I could see MJ putting up 50 points and Vesey netting 25 goals.

And that frees up our best two wingers to ride with Mitts, giving him his best chance to succeed. 

Olofsson puts the heat in Vesey, and Rodrigues bumps Casey if Casey fails.

Until Botterill gets us a centre, doesn’t that give us our best chance of 2 decent scoring lines?

Depending on how the wingers are allocated, I think the goal is to have 3 solid scoring lines (in theory).

Jbot basically said that Erod, Jack and Mitts are our 3 top centers with Jack obviously no 1. I got the impression that he wants HCRK to be able to allocate the wingers as he sees fit.  Jbot was very clear that the ability of guys to play multiple positions was important.  He talked about Sheary's time playing RW and Johansson playing RW in the playoffs for Boston.  He also mentioned that depth forwards Larsson, Z and Sobotka play C and W (although we can debate if Sobatka plays either of them well).  

As of today's I'd argue the spine is Jack, Mitts Erod and Larsson.  Now let the battle royal begin for the 8 wing slots.  Good luck boys.

One note on Vesey.  I'm so much happier with the Vesey trade then prior to today.  Jbot was very clear that Vesey was acquired because he scores even strength goals and scores them around the net.  He also adds size to the wing group.  He pointed out that he has 16/17 goals at even strength each of the last two seasons.  Last season our top EVG scorers were Skinner 32 (5th in the NHL), Jack 20, Sam 20, Pommers 15 and then Sheary at 10.  Vesey had 16 in 2017/18 and 16 in 2018/19.  Put him with Jack and maybe give him PP time and you could get 25 goals.  

I also liked the shot Jbot took at Capfriendly and really all of us projecting the lineup.  He said that capfriendly and others are projecting their lineup for the Sabres not his and in August.  He has 2 more months to make decisions and what their projecting isn't necessarily what he and his staff are.  They have reviewed thousands for scenarios about the roster and he reiterated that all he has to do is send someone to the minors to get cap compliant.

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

WGR has transcribed a number of the quotes from the interview:

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/botterill-we-have-have-four-lines-can-contribute

[Thorner]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

Another thing that Botterill suggested today (it was a good interview, long and relaxed) was that Jack needs to elevate his linemates the way Sidney Crosby typically elevates his.

Which is sort of why I have been increasingly leaning towards Johansson (who can do a lot of things Reinhart does) and Vesey (a pale echo of Skinner) flanking Jack. I could see MJ putting up 50 points and Vesey netting 25 goals.

And that frees up our best two wingers to ride with Mitts, giving him his best chance to succeed. 

Olofsson puts the heat in Vesey, and Rodrigues bumps Casey if Casey fails.

Until Botterill gets us a centre, doesn’t that give us our best chance of 2 decent scoring lines?

No wonder he didn't add anyone. He just had to tell Eichel to be Crosby! Just go ahead an elevate your line mates like the best player in the world does, Jack. 

I kid. 

?

Edited August 8, 2019 by Thorny
Although I'm a little worried if our GM is literally expecting Jack to elevate to the degree Sid does, like your phrasing implies.

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I would think so. I'm a little worried  that turns Jack's line into what he and Kane were though - plenty of goals completely neutralized by plenty more goals against

Ya. I mean going back to Mark Scheifele being in the top 10 for C lists, look at the wingers he plays with. I'm not sure it's fair to ask Eichel to do with Vesey and Johansson what Scheifele does with Ehlers and Wheeler. 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Depending on how the wingers are allocated, I think the goal is to have 3 solid scoring lines (in theory).

Jbot basically said that Erod, Jack and Mitts are our 3 top centers with Jack obviously no 1. I got the impression that he wants HCRK to be able to allocate the wingers as he sees fit.  Jbot was very clear that the ability of guys to play multiple positions was important.  He talked about Sheary's time playing RW and Johansson playing RW in the playoffs for Boston.  He also mentioned that depth forwards Larsson, Z and Sobotka play C and W (although we can debate if Sobatka plays either of them well).  

 

From that Instigators interview it sounds like he wants 4 scoring lines. Suppose it depends on how you interpret "contribute."  Also he clearly said Johanson can play left or right wing, no mention of playing center.  So if that is to be believed there will not be any more moves. Somebody will be sent to the minors and/or put on long term injury to comply with the cap and Mitts will be 2C again with ERod 3 and ? (I guess) Larsson as 4. 

potentially that would mean our D might be pretty good this year but forward depth is a big question imo. maybe Vesey clicks with someone. maybe Johanson is great. It's possible, but I have my doubts. 

and we are definitely too small and soft. 

[triumph_communes]

If Botterill wants four scoring lines, Ruostalainen is making the team as a center and Okposo will be in the press box. 

[Drunkard]

2 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

If Botterill wants four scoring lines, Ruostalainen is making the team as a center and Okposo will be in the press box. 

4 scoring lines seems pretty ambitious considering we only had 1 last year. At this point we'll be lucky to get back to having 2 of them.

[Randall Flagg]

Damn I forgot all about that guy

[Huckleberry]

19 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

What do you guys think about...

Skinner-Eichel-Vessey

VO-Johansson-Reinhart 

Sheary-Mitts-Erod

Girgs-Larsson-Okposo

Not really putting him up for success though.    I'm expecting more something like this.

 

Skinner - Eichel - Vessey

Johansson - Mitts - Reinhart

VO - Erod - Thompson

Girgs - Larsson - Okposo

Sheary

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Has anyone done research on how 2nd year talented centers do in year two? It would be interesting to see how Casey’s production at his age compares to top 6  enters around the league and that might give us a place to start numerically to project Mitts’ performance in year 2.

For Example: Jack went from .69 p/gp to .93 p/gp

I looked at Courturier and it took him 6 full seasons before blossoming offensively in year 7. He was a 30 pts guy before then.  It took William Karlsson until year 4.  Zibanejad had a first bump in year 3 to the mid 40s and a second bigger jump in year 7 to the 70+ pts range.

Hertl had 25 points in year 1 and slowly developed until he had 74 pts w 35 goals this past season in year 6. I think he is a pretty good proxy for Mitts.  Playing with a top winger, I can see him jump up to 40 this coming season and continuing to grow from there.

 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

Damn I forgot all about that guy

That’s because he has about as much of a shot of making an impact as Viktor Antipin did.

29 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Has anyone done research on how 2nd year talented centers do in year two? It would be interesting to see how Casey’s production at his age compares to top 6  enters around the league and that might give us a place to start numerically to project Mitts’ performance in year 2.

For Example: Jack went from .69 p/gp to .93 p/gp

I looked at Courturier and it took him 6 full seasons before blossoming offensively in year 7. He was a 30 pts guy before then.  It took William Karlsson until year 4.  Zibanejad had a first bump in year 3 to the mid 40s and a second bigger jump in year 7 to the 70+ pts range.

Hertl had 25 points in year 1 and slowly developed until he had 74 pts w 35 goals this past season in year 6. I think he is a pretty good proxy for Mitts.  Playing with a top winger, I can see him jump up to 40 this coming season and continuing to grow from there.

 

I’ve looked into it and I’ve found there are too many outliers for a clear path to emerge.

The one thing that used to be fairly common was a forward making a relatively steady progression and emerging as his “real” self in year three or four, like Jack and Sam did.

A lot of it really depends on the maturity of the player and the situation he is used in.

Tyler Seguin went from 22 points in his first season to 67 in his second

[bob_sauve28]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Not really putting him up for success though.    I'm expecting more something like this.

 

Skinner - Eichel - Vessey

Johansson - Mitts - Reinhart

VO - Erod - Thompson

Girgs - Larsson - Okposo

Sheary

 

If Okposo can generate some offense for that line I think they might be a pretty good fourth line. And if Grigs and Larry and put a few more in the net that would be really great 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Who the heck is VO?

[Huckleberry]

7 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Who the heck is VO?

Victor Oloffson

[Sabres Fan in NS]

6 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Victor Oloffson

Sent you a beer.  Now you only need 19 more.

?

[PerreaultForever]

I think it's impossible to predict. We have to think outside the box. This team was bad, and we have a new coach, so the idea that lines will resemble lines from last year is questionable at best. An awful lot depends on how good Mitts and Olofsson look coming out of camp. They want them to be the guys, but will they be what they (and we) want? 

When I look at the line ideas I don't see enough snipers, trigger men, goal scorers. We seem out of balance. As such i have to wonder if they wont' try to pair Johannson with Eichel. Johannson is a playmaker and is capable of making that fake and pass back to Jack allowing Jack to shoot more and be more of a goal scorer as well as a puck carrier. All depends on Mitts developing though.

Johansson - Eichel - Reinhart/Vesey

Skinner - Mitts-  Reinhart/Vesey

VO- E-Rod - Okposo/Sheary

Zemgus-Larsson-Okposo/Sheary

seems more balanced to me. If we have to go Skinner-Eichel again I fear we will be a one line team again and easy to shut down second half as before.

I really think the new coach will have radical new ideas though and it'll be totally different. Wouldnt' even be surprised if we see a much better Sobodka on a solid checking line.

Also maybe everyone's right and Scandella has turned to shite but I wonder.......he was a decent D man when he got here. maybe he just floundered under Housley's nonsensical D system and maybe him (and Risto) can be reborn under a coach who understand checking and defending are required in hockey, not just moving the puck and attacking. We shall see.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I've been trying to quantify or otherwise express why this coming seasons's team is better then last year's.

I looked at both our opening day roster last season and the most common roster for last season to see where we are improved.  The answer is there are likely to be at least 5 new skaters in the lineup over last season.

They are Olofsson, Johansson, and Vesey at forward and at least Miller and Montour on defense.  As of right now they are replacing Sobotka, Pominville and Thompson upfront and Scandella or Bogo and Nelson on D.  

This is a clear upgrade of talent, especially on defense.  Then add improvements from Dahlin and Mittelstadt and you should have a 5-7 win improvement over last year.