2019-2020 Lineup

[Doohicksie]

44 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

Unsurprisingly, Mitts is worst on the team with a -5 currently

Remember when that would have been one of the best +/- on the team?

[sabresparaavida]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Remember when that would have been one of the best +/- on the team?

I wish I could forget

[Taro T]

Curious about whether the people that were insistent on Eichel playing with Skinner still want to see that happen or if they are OK with Krueger's decision to keep Reinhart and Olofsson his linemates?

It had seemed that crew wasn't quite jelling right and Olofsson even got pulled off the line briefly, but after injuries got it reunited likely sooner than anticipated that line has been lights out.

That line won't continue to have Eichel pick up points every single game all year long, but he should be able to continue to use his full skill set playing with those 2 and should he stay healthy he should end up over 100 points and quite possibly over 40 goals.  Especially if Olofsson could stay on this 30+ goal 65+ point pace; do you keep the line together?  (And Reinhart will likely end up 25+ and ~70 points (he always plays better as the season progresses).)

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Curious about whether the people that were insistent on Eichel playing with Skinner still want to see that happen or if they are OK with Krueger's decision to keep Reinhart and Olofsson his linemates?

It had seemed that crew wasn't quite jelling right and Olofsson even got pulled off the line briefly, but after injuries got it reunited likely sooner than anticipated that line has been lights out.

That line won't continue to have Eichel pick up points every single game all year long, but he should be able to continue to use his full skill set playing with those 2 and should he stay healthy he should end up over 100 points and quite possibly over 40 goals.  Especially if Olofsson could stay on this 30+ goal 65+ point pace; do you keep the line together?  (And Reinhart will likely end up 25+ and ~70 points (he always plays better as the season progresses).)

Nope, I've changed my mind. Or rather, VO has. Keep the top line together. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

Nope, I've changed my mind. Or rather, VO has. Keep the top line together. 

But does it really matter 'cuz Skinner has become almost jag.

It's a credit to Jack for performing well w/o Jeff, but Jeff is looking ineffective. If VO gets 30-35g that's less than Skins got last year w/Jack. The way Jack's playing Skins might have 50 this year.

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

But does it really matter 'cuz Skinner has become almost jag.

It's a credit to Jack for performing well w/o Jeff, but Jeff is looking ineffective. If VO gets 30-35g that's less than Skins got last year w/Jack. The way Jack's playing Skins might have 50 this year.

 But I think they wanted Jack separated from Skinner because they wanted Jack to become  the sniper on the top line.  He was deferring to much to Skinner when they played together.

One of the reasons I want Reinhart w Skinner is for Reinhart to become Skinner’s set up guy. 
 

Reinhart has become a jag on Jack’s line as he lacks the speed to keep up w VO and Jack on the breakout.

Edited December 13, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

But does it really matter 'cuz Skinner has become almost jag.

It's a credit to Jack for performing well w/o Jeff, but Jeff is looking ineffective. If VO gets 30-35g that's less than Skins got last year w/Jack. The way Jack's playing Skins might have 50 this year.

Possible.  Though I'd expect not.  But when Eichel plays with Skinner he tends to stay higher in the zone deferring to Jeff to go low to the net.  Aside: And when Pominville was the 3rd on that line, Jack seemed to never be below the dots as he knew what Skinner was there for and what Jason's limitations were which is why I DESPISED that combo after Jason hit the proverbial wall.  (When it was working, it was working, but after it stopped there was no reason to expect it could restart short of Jason sitting and getting back to game shape for a couple of weeks.)

So, would Eichel even be playing this way if he still had Skinner there?  Possible.  But considering even when Olofsson was pulled from that line, it wasn't Skinner that was put into his place, it would seem Krueger doesn't expect it.

And, yes Skinner is going through a rough patch but he's still pretty much on pace to get 30.  But all goal scorers do go through dry spells and he'll get hit again.  And getting Mittelstadt or Rodrigues as his centers doesn't really help with getting out of the funk.  Nor did having, on pace for 3 goals this season, Sobotka on his opposing wing when he was actually paired with Johansson help either.

And having Skinner on an island helps to keep the other team honest, though it reaaaalllly stinks for him.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 But I think they wanted Jack separated from Skinner because they wanted Jack to become  the sniper on the top line.  He was deferring to much to Skinner when they played together.

One of the reasons I want Reinhart w Skinner is for Reinhart to become Skinner’s set up guy. 
 

Reinhart has become a jag on Jack’s line as he lacks the speed to keep up w VO and Jack on the breakout.

27 points in 33 games and 7 (3-4) in the past 5 is a JAG?

What does someone have to do to become "above replacement" in your eyes?

Reinhart has historically always started slow and gained momentum as the season goes on. Surprisingly, he had a good October this year.  He did have a spell in November where he's looked ordinary, but he's been looking like his old self for the past couple of weeks. 

Perhaps it's Reinhart getting back towards his higher end play that correlates to the wins?  (Don't know, am legitimately asking.)

And slightly different subject, if you are correct and Reinhart is too slow to set up Jack and Victor, how is he quick enough to set up Skinner?

Skinner could definitely use a set up man.  Earlier, that was Johansson.  Expecting sometime relatively soon, he will be again.

[nfreeman]

So with Mitts healthy-scratched in 2 out of the last 3 games, and benched for a good chunk of the 3rd, and the Sabres winning without him -- does JB finally heed our advice and send him down to Rochester?

[dudacek]

8 hours ago, Taro T said:

Curious about whether the people that were insistent on Eichel playing with Skinner still want to see that happen or if they are OK with Krueger's decision to keep Reinhart and Olofsson his linemates?

It had seemed that crew wasn't quite jelling right and Olofsson even got pulled off the line briefly, but after injuries got it reunited likely sooner than anticipated that line has been lights out.

That line won't continue to have Eichel pick up points every single game all year long, but he should be able to continue to use his full skill set playing with those 2 and should he stay healthy he should end up over 100 points and quite possibly over 40 goals.  Especially if Olofsson could stay on this 30+ goal 65+ point pace; do you keep the line together?  (And Reinhart will likely end up 25+ and ~70 points (he always plays better as the season progresses).)

Nothing wrong with the depth scoring that trading a surplus defenceman wouldn’t fix.

Nothing wrong with the first line at all - only line in the league with 3 guys in the top 40 of goal scorers, and one of only two lines in the league with three guys in the top 40 in scoring.

(the other one isn’t the Bergeron line, and it might surprise you)

 

[LGR4GM]

Colorado? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

14 minutes ago, Taro T said:

27 points in 33 games and 7 (3-4) in the past 5 is a JAG?

What does someone have to do to become "above replacement" in your eyes?

Reinhart has historically always started slow and gained momentum as the season goes on. Surprisingly, he had a good October this year.  He did have a spell in November where he's looked ordinary, but he's been looking like his old self for the past couple of weeks. 

Perhaps it's Reinhart getting back towards his higher end play that correlates to the wins?  (Don't know, am legitimately asking.)

And slightly different subject, if you are correct and Reinhart is too slow to set up Jack and Victor, how is he quick enough to set up Skinner?

Skinner could definitely use a set up man.  Earlier, that was Johansson.  Expecting sometime relatively soon, he will be again.

Skinner is a great edge guy but not a burner and Reinhart often is a passenger on Jack’s line picking up points (secondary assists) by just being there.  He isn’t driving offense as we need him to.  I think he rightly defers to Jack, but with Skinner he’ll have to drive offense.

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Colorado? 

Vancouver: Pettersson, Boeser, Miller.

Sabres and Bruins trios have more points, but this one is the most balanced.

Edited December 13, 2019 by dudacek

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Skinner is a great edge guy but not a burner and Reinhart often is a passenger on Jack’s line picking up points (secondary assists) by just being there.  He isn’t driving offense as we need him to.  I think he rightly defers to Jack, but with Skinner he’ll have to drive offense.

Reinhart has almost as many goals as he has assists on both the season (12-15) and the past few games (3-4).

How is that showing he's a "passenger" or a "jag"?  (Both terms you use to describe him.)

This "jag" is on pace for 67 over the entire season with his cold stretch included and on a pace for ending the year with 97 should he be able to sustain what he's done the past 5.

Realistically, he'll wind up in the high 70's which is top line, not a jag.

[dudacek]

Victor is the 8th highest scoring LW in the NHL this year, Sam is the 7th highest scoring RW.

Edited December 13, 2019 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Vancouver: Pettersson, Boeser, Miller.

Sabres and Bruins trios have more points, but this one is the most balanced.

Scary thing is Buffalo could have had Boeser and could have signed Miller. Obviously that is a huge what if.  Thanks for the info, didn't know they were doing so well. 

[Doohicksie]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Victor is the 8th highest scoring LW in the NHL this year, Sam is the 7th highest scoring RW.

ELITE!

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

ELITE!

Negative ghost rider, the pattern is full. 

[Drunkard]

6 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

But does it really matter 'cuz Skinner has become almost jag.

It's a credit to Jack for performing well w/o Jeff, but Jeff is looking ineffective. If VO gets 30-35g that's less than Skins got last year w/Jack. The way Jack's playing Skins might have 50 this year.

My biggest issue with the lines is it's they have 2 guys who are both up for new contracts getting the lion's share of their ice time playing with Eichel. Last year Skinner played with Eichel most of the year, got his stats padded, and now he's overpaid. This year Reinhart and Olofsson are both pending RFAs up for new contracts and they are getting their stats padded playing with Eichel. Seems stupid if you ask me, especially if they end up like Skinner by getting moved to a new line after signing their big contracts. Seems like a recipe to overpay guys.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Drunkard

[nfreeman]

Just now, Drunkard said:

My biggest issue with the lines is it's they have 2 guys who are both up for new contracts getting the lions share of their ice time playing with Eichel. Last year Skinner played with Eichel most of the year, got his stats padded, and now he's overpaid. This year Reinhart and Olofsson are both pending RFAs up for new contracts and they are getting their stats padded playing with Eichel. Seems stupid if you ask me, especially if they end up line Skinner and get moved to a new line after signing their big contracts. Seems like a recipe to overpay guys.

Constructing lines based on contract status would be the essence of the tail wagging the dog, IMHO.  This team needs to emerge from the basement.  Eichel's line is highly effective and Olofsson is being cultivated into a really good player.  Busting that up in order to try to save money on his next contract (or Reino's) would be nuts.

[Drunkard]

5 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Constructing lines based on contract status would be the essence of the tail wagging the dog, IMHO.  This team needs to emerge from the basement.  Eichel's line is highly effective and Olofsson is being cultivated into a really good player.  Busting that up in order to try to save money on his next contract (or Reino's) would be nuts.

We'll see if you feel the same way if Reinhart pots 70 points and they end up giving him an 8 year, $64 million contract. I know most people still think he won't get that much, especially since William Nylander signed for a shade under $7 million with better numbers, but contracts go up every year and Nylander was only locked up for 6 years. I imagine if Botterill wants to lock Reinhart up for the full 8, he'll have to go up from Nylander's number. If we had already locked Reinhart up instead of bridging him, this wouldn't be an issue.

 

[nfreeman]

16 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

We'll see if you feel the same way if Reinhart pots 70 points and they end up giving him an 8 year, $64 million contract. I know most people still think he won't get that much, especially since William Nylander signed for a shade under $7 million with better numbers, but contracts go up every year and Nylander was only locked up for 6 years. I imagine if Botterill wants to lock Reinhart up for the full 8, he'll have to go up from Nylander's number. If we had already locked Reinhart up instead of bridging him, this wouldn't be an issue.

 

Well, I don't want to give Reino that much, but I want even less (by quite a bit) to hurt the team's chances of escaping the desert by playing a lineup that departs from RK's preferences in an attempt to save $$.  That's a Ralph Wilson/OSP move right there.

[GASabresIUFAN]

40 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

My biggest issue with the lines is it's they have 2 guys who are both up for new contracts getting the lion's share of their ice time playing with Eichel. Last year Skinner played with Eichel most of the year, got his stats padded, and now he's overpaid. This year Reinhart and Olofsson are both pending RFAs up for new contracts and they are getting their stats padded playing with Eichel. Seems stupid if you ask me, especially if they end up like Skinner by getting moved to a new line after signing their big contracts. Seems like a recipe to overpay guys.

Lol, so we should play Girgensons and Sheary with Jack to avoid overpaying two of our 4 best forwards.  That doesn’t seem like a good way to win games or make the playoffs.

Edited December 13, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[Drunkard]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

Well, I don't want to give Reino that much, but I want even less (by quite a bit) to hurt the team's chances of escaping the desert by playing a lineup that departs from RK's preferences in an attempt to save $$.  That's a Ralph Wilson/OSP move right there.

I get it. I wouldn't try to sabotage the team in order to save cap space, it just puzzles me that they backed up the Brinks truck to pay Skinner like a 40 goal scorer and now they are overpaying him and he's not even on pace to score 30 goals at this point. I realize there was a coaching change but it's pretty obvious that Skinner is not a $9 million player when he's not playing with Eichel. Unfortunately that's how much we're paying him this year and for the next 7 years after that. Thanks to his full NMC he's not going anywhere. 

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Lol, so we should play Girgensons and Sheary with Jack to avoid overpaying two of our 4 best forwards.  That doesn’t seem like a good way to win games or make the playoffs.

No, you put the guy you're already paying $9 million per year with Eichel because that's the only spot where he produces enough to earn his oversized contract.

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

I get it. I wouldn't try to sabotage the team in order to save cap space, it just puzzles me that they backed up the Brinks truck to pay Skinner like a 40 goal scorer and now they are overpaying him and he's not even on pace to score 30 goals at this point. I realize there was a coaching change but it's pretty obvious that Skinner is not a $9 million player when he's not playing with Eichel. Unfortunately that's how much we're paying him this year and for the next 7 years after that. Thanks to his full NMC he's not going anywhere. 

No, you put the guy you're already paying $9 million per year with Eichel because that's the only spot where he produces enough to earn his oversized contract.

Except Jack is the scorer we need him to be without Jeff on his line.  Again this is why we need to put a good playmaker with Skinner not named Jack to maximize his value.  I suggest Reinhart, but I’m ok with us getting a Center for him.

My Sabres top would look like right now 

 VO Jack (inset trade target here)  but I’d even try Mitts or Vesey to see what happens In the short term.

Skinner MoJo Reinhart

Edited December 13, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN