Official: Skinner Signs 8 year, $72MM Extension

[bob_sauve28]

14 minutes ago, nucci said:

How do other teams sign their best players to big contracts yet keep winning?

 

Good question! But do all teams stay good after throwing big money at players? No. 

[bob_sauve28]

On 6/7/2019 at 11:31 PM, matter2003 said:

Skinner is 3rd to only Auston Matthews and Connor McDavid since 2016-2017 in even strength goals...

Matthews 79

McDavid 75

Skinner 72

Ovechkin 70

 

 

Yes, but what about assists? Those players bring others things to the table that Skinner doesn't. 

[Scottysabres]

2 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Yes, but what about assists? Those players bring others things to the table that Skinner doesn't. 

And hence why each of them make more than Skinner.

[Alaska Darin]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

The point isn't about when they signed the contract, its that we had ROR under contract AND for fewer years to go. This millstone we just placed around our neck for the next decade will, I believe, damage the franchise, cost us salary flexibility and not make us much better. Again, I do hope I'm wrong 

I pretty much agree with this.  That being said, they really couldn't let Skinner walk because of the optics of the ROR situation (feels to me a lot like not letting Vanek go to Edmonton for 4 firsts because we'd lost Drury and Briere).  It's just another in a long line of bizarre decisions by this franchise.  It's about a 95% guarantee that we're going to regret the last 3-4 years of this deal.  Hopefully the first 4-5 make it worthwhile.

 

[...]

It's not optics, it's reason. The guy scored 40 during a miserable season. He's a tool, a partner, for our franchise center. He would have received similar on the open market. This is reality.

There has to be some psychological term for fan bases that have catch-22 expectations for the object of their fandom where they get satisfaction pointing out failure despite the circumstances.

[3putt]

I look at it this way:

Skinner was not a replacement for ROR, he replaced EKane.  Bobblehead had to replace that production in the following offseason and he did with a relatively painless deal.  He was gifted Skinner due to Skinner’s leverage with the Canes.

Once the lottery balls dropped, our defense got better immediately. Not set, but better.  There was no need to trade our 1A center at that point.  We were gifted another present.

the ROR trade was the single worst decision in franchise history since Briere/Drury.  Not simply because of the putrid return, but because he had the luxury of paying a bonus and waiting the market out.  The return should have been better.  I a deal didn’t immensely favor the Sabres it should not have been consummated notwithstanding to visceral reaction (possibly, though never confirmed that the pegs demanded he be gone.)  To think Thompson is anything other than a bottom six player and to not force him to earn a spot after starting in the A, derailed any legitimacy of a culture change.  Bobblehead is not a very good evaluator of talent. 

So we sign Skinner to a lucrative deal.  Again, we had to replace and keep the production from EKane.  But this will set a bar for Sam and likely Montour.  Hometown discounts seem unlikely in the near future.  Glad we have Skinners potential production, but that production was largely exclusive to playing with Jack.  We hire a new coach, and he is immediately faced with the likelihood that his gm just set two of his top line players.  Jack can carry just about anyone, so a Skinner/Sam tandem is logical with the addition of a comparable top six talent.

The EKane return gets us an AHL player and ufa to be and Montour.  Montour is an older, right-handed version of the prospect we had to add to get him and he is signed for only one more year.  So more work to do on the contract front and he doesn’t necessarily become the partner for RD, that we need.

Going into this offseason we need a 2C and another top 6 forward, an upgrade on D and a substantial upgrade in net to have serious playoff hopes.  And there is little on the farm outside of VO and AN to help in that regard.  Hopefully Kyle rebounds to a semblance of his former self, for both his and the team’s benefit.  Good guy, good teammate.  

Bobblehaed had two subpar offseasons compounded by non existent in season tweaks during the two most recent campaigns including Wilson and Ellie.  Sheary, the human zamboni, Vlad, hunwick and Hutton are meh at best acquisitions.  

So great, we did not lose important production.  Maybe an overpay, but Stone and Matthews deals impacted the market rate.  But the question is now what?  How do we actually get better without solely relying on natural progression of the younger players?  Trades?  I do not trust Bobblehead’s ability to evaluate talent, negotiate a deal and not create a hole while intending to fix another.  UFA?  Not a lot out there.   

Surprise me Jason.  Earn the genius accolades thrown your way.  Make this team better now, not in five years.  Other teams have done it, your up.  Your up, go yard.  Go Sabres!

Out.  Long hike up the hill to the cave.   

 

[Sabel79]

8 minutes ago, 3putt said:

 

The EKane return gets us an AHL player and ufa to be and Montour.  Montour is an older, right-handed version of the prospect we had to add to get him and he is signed for only one more year.  So more work to do on the contract front and he doesn’t necessarily become the partner for RD, that we need.

 

Montour will be an RFA (yes he'll need to be signed, but it's a shade better from the Sabres perspective) and I'm not sure Guhle is a 1:1 comparison, now or in the future. 

I'll agree that there's much work to be done, but there's cap space and time to play with.  I don't think this team comes into October looking anything like it did in April.  I'll gladly eat the leftover crow not choked down by the "Skinner won't sign" crowd if I'm wrong, but I think JBOTs makes this his team going forward, and I'm optimistic.   

 

[#freejame]

Evander Kane wasn’t going to sign here. He was moved at the deadline because of it. This happens to teams every season. It’s called maximizing your assets. He does not factor into anything anymore. He would have walked for nothing. Jbott got something. I’m sick of reading his name. 

[Radar]

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Good question! But do all teams stay good after throwing big money at players? No. 

Quote

I think in todays game you do need to build with a core you pay top money to and the rest fill in with interchangeable players. Just don't throw money away with those players you can replace easily. 

 

[3putt]

57 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:

Montour will be an RFA (yes he'll need to be signed, but it's a shade better from the Sabres perspective) and I'm not sure Guhle is a 1:1 comparison, now or in the future. 

I'll agree that there's much work to be done, but there's cap space and time to play with.  I don't think this team comes into October looking anything like it did in April.  I'll gladly eat the leftover crow not choked down by the "Skinner won't sign" crowd if I'm wrong, but I think JBOTs makes this his team going forward, and I'm optimistic.   

 

O’Reagan

edit: I believe he is Group six UFA.

Edited June 9, 2019 by 3putt

[Sabel79]

4 minutes ago, 3putt said:

 

Admitting I read that wrong, now I'm even more confused.

[3putt]

See edit.

[Sabel79]

3 minutes ago, 3putt said:

See edit.

Ahhhhhh, okay.  The third time you hit me in the head with it it sinks in.  

[klos1963]

3 hours ago, nucci said:

How do other teams sign their best players to big contracts yet keep winning?

 

good management?

[Gatorman0519]

Another sub 80 point season, which is possible, and Jbot will be on thin ice. 

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

Evander Kane wasn’t going to sign here. He was moved at the deadline because of it. This happens to teams every season. It’s called maximizing your assets. He does not factor into anything anymore. He would have walked for nothing. Jbott got something. I’m sick of reading his name. 

I think Kane would've signed here for the same contract he got from SJ.

[...]

34 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I think Kane would've signed here for the same contract he got from SJ.

A metro population nearly twice the size as here, the ocean, the middle-California weather, the area's relative wealth, the selective anonymity.  Not to mention the owners didn't want him. No way Kane was going to sign here.  He was living in a hotel room here and couldn't be "Kane" without being scrutinized.

Skinner signed here for about nearly the opposite reasoning, and many of those probably were a turn-off to Kane, the team's future notwithstanding.

 

[nucci]

4 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Good question! But do all teams stay good after throwing big money at players? No. 

Tampa and Blackhawks come to mind...they win Cups...thought that was the goal....not cap space

[nfreeman]

16 minutes ago, ... said:

A metro population nearly twice the size as here, the ocean, the middle-California weather, the area's relative wealth, the selective anonymity.  Not to mention the owners didn't want him. No way Kane was going to sign here.  He was living in a hotel room here and couldn't be "Kane" without being scrutinized.

Skinner signed here for about nearly the opposite reasoning, and many of those probably were a turn-off to Kane, the team's future notwithstanding.

 

The SJ offer wasn’t there for Kane at the time the Sabres could’ve signed him — so he would’ve been weighing a $49MM guarantee against zero for an entire year.  

We also don’t know whether the Pegulas gave any instruction on this.  Either way, though, I think if the Sabres had offered him $49MM at their earliest opportunity, he would’ve taken it.  

[PalmTreeMafia]

15 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Sure, cause the D was so good last year right? Face it, we need upgrades top to bottom. D might not be #1 priority but if anyone thinks Montour coming in fixes the D you are dreaming. I'm hoping the new coach can fix Risto, but aside from Dahlin there is nothing to rave about on D. or in goal, or..........etc etc etc. 

I wasn't arguing that the D doesn't need upgrades. My point was that the remaining cap space should be allocated toward increasing the talent at the top-6 forward positions first before getting to the problems with the talent on D. The reasoning is that the problems last year on defense could have conceivably had more to do with Housley coaching issues than with the raw talent. No one can make that case with the forwards, however. There are only 3 legitimate top-6 forward talents on the roster and in the entire Sabres development system right now (Eichel, Skinner, Reinhart) with a 4th still a year or two away (Mitts).

[...]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

The SJ offer wasn’t there for Kane at the time the Sabres could’ve signed him — so he would’ve been weighing a $49MM guarantee against zero for an entire year.  

We also don’t know whether the Pegulas gave any instruction on this.  Either way, though, I think if the Sabres had offered him $49MM at their earliest opportunity, he would’ve taken it.  

He wanted to go West. If memory serves, the were rumors he wanted to go West and wasn't going to re-sign.  Los Angeles, San Jose, Vegas, Anaheim, and even the Florida teams were with the same circumstances quality-of-life wise.  

[Derrico]

4 hours ago, 3putt said:

I look at it this way:

Skinner was not a replacement for ROR, he replaced EKane.  Bobblehead had to replace that production in the following offseason and he did with a relatively painless deal.  He was gifted Skinner due to Skinner’s leverage with the Canes.

the ROR trade was the single worst decision in franchise history since Briere/Drury.  Not simply because of the putrid return, but because he had the luxury of paying a bonus and waiting the market out.  The return should have been better.  I a deal didn’t immensely favor the Sabres it should not have been consummated notwithstanding to visceral reaction (possibly, though never confirmed that the pegs demanded he be gone.)  

Hometown discounts seem unlikely in the near future.  Glad we have Skinners potential production, but that production was largely exclusive to playing with Jack.  We hire a new coach, and he is immediately faced with the likelihood that his gm just set two of his top line players.  Jack can carry just about anyone, so a Skinner/Sam tandem is logical with the addition of a comparable top six talent.

The EKane return gets us an AHL player and ufa to be and Montour.  Montour is an older, right-handed version of the prospect we had to add to get him and he is signed for only one more year.  So more work to do on the contract front and he doesn’t necessarily become the partner for RD, that we need.

Bobblehaed had two subpar offseasons compounded by non existent in season tweaks during the two most recent campaigns.

 

To your first paragraph - yes he was ‘gifted’ skinner due to circumstances but he still got it done.  I realize skinner had alot of say in where he went but I’m sure there were more destinations than just Buffalo and Jason got it done.  I don’t think this should just be completely discounted.

To your next paragraph you already gave the answer.  I think the Pegula’s wanted ROR gone. Period.  It came to light that his brother was sabotaging one of the Sabres first round picks.  TPegs threw ROR a bone by signing his brother to a ludicrous AHL deal.  Then his brother turns around and messes with nylander (read up on it if you don’t know details).  Then ROR comes out publically crying about losing his love for the game.  There is no doubt in my mind TPegs said ***** you I want him and his brother gone.  Think about it, it was highly rumoured Carolina would have offered more if Sabres waited to pay the bonus.  Trade gets done with mediocre return because Pegula said I’m not writing another cheque to him.  Maybe it’s out there the sabres are VERY eager to trade him before the bonus payment.  Cash strapped teams like Carolina are out and others are lowballing as they know the sabres deadline is imposing.  Long winded way of saying I’m pissed off with the ROR trade but I really don’t think it’s all Jason’s fault.  He was in a really tough spot imo.

Next point.  Home town discounts very rarely ever happen anymore.  Toronto is the ‘hockey Mecca’ of the world and nylander, Matthews and soon to be marner are sticking it to the leafs and there are no home town discounts. That’s a huge market and a winning team.  If no home town discounts are happening there then I doubt it’s anywhere outside of a couple tax friendly states.  So I’m not concerned about hometown discounts.

Big mistake in this point unless I’m wrong after next year Montour is an RFA not a UFA.  Buffalo completely controls his rights unless there’s a (never happen) offer sheet.  Also why is he not the right partner for RD?  I thought he looked pretty good playing with him at the end of last year.  I would love seeing them paired together next season.

To the last point I would disagree in that Montour was and is a very nice add.  The only  reason he isn’t getting more praise around here is because the team went into the crapper which included way more reasons than Montour.  This was a very saught after prospect.  I think your criminally underrating Montour and he will be one of our biggest surprises this year.  Living in the gta I listen to a lot of leaf radio and they had been fantasizing about trading for this guy for the past three years now.  I’ve spoke with many leaf fans who can’t believe all we gave up was an incredibly late first and a good but not great prospect.  I think in 3 years you will rethink Jason’s ability to evaluate talent.  Especially considering the potential in the past two drafts.

[In The Buff]

10 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

I do not disagree with your assessment here. But...………..

Risto at 5.4 mil for 3 more seasons, given his point production, is, in my opinion, a worthy offensive D man. I would prefer they get a shutdown LD to ride with him on the 2nd pairing. Who that might be and what it would cost to get him is a conversation worth having maybe, no?

Also, while we are discussing D, RHD's Risto, Bogosain, Montour, Nelson, LHD's Dahlin, Scandella, McCabe, Hunwick, (Pilut down in the AHL as of now)

There are of course a couple of 21/22 yr olds in the AHL that may show a push, we just never truly know.

But, when I look at those listed that have actually played more than a handful of NHL games, and this is just my take is all, but Scandella and Hunwick would appear to me in any event, to be the odd men out. Leaving an opportunity to hunt down a shutdown LHD to partner with Risto.

I am not overly familiar with players reportedly available such as Trouba or Ceci or Honka, but here is a list I found that may provide the type of D man/D men we could possibly need.

Off this list, who interests you, and why?

Since this is a Skinner thread this isn't the right place to address this but for lack of another way to respond i'll add a name i didnt see on ur list that i'd like.

Jake Gardiner from Toronto. With the other priorities the Leafs have, maybe we could get him. I'd love to see him in the blue & gold. But with Zaitsev asking to be moved, idk how the Leafs don't make sure Gardiner is signed. But he'd be great imo.

As for Skinner. Sure i'd like to have signed him for $500k less per year but you cant split hairs at this point. We had the money, needed him bad & its a win for both.

For those naysayers bringing up the bad contracts we've had before, i don't see him going the KO or Moulson route. None of those players in terms of even strength scoring were ever in a list with McDavid, P.Kane, Draisaitl or Ovechkin. Yet alone the other stats one could point to. Skinner is a much better player & trying to compare him & his contract to those guys is just absurd.

Our watch has ended, now we can go for the throne!

[pi2000]

With this contract, does Skinner get more ice time in OT?   Or does Sobotka still get sent out there to take faceoffs?

[Zamboni]

4 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

With this contract, does Skinner get more ice time in OT?   Or does Sobotka still get sent out there to take faceoffs?

Different coach. So we’ll see.