Official: Skinner Signs 8 year, $72MM Extension

[Drunkard]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Why are people worried about a full NTC.  If we continue to suck, he'll want out and we'll trade him.  If we get good, his goal scoring will be a critical piece and assuming he stays relatively healthy I think we'll get at least 6 good years from the deal.  That leaves his final two years with a decreasing base and an increasing cap.  

 

Because it gives Skinner complete control over if and when he is moved and it has the potential to completely suppress any return we could get from trading him if he agrees to be traded down the road, just like it did when Carolina traded him to us. On the bright side I guess it doesn't matter because Botterill wouldn't know how to leverage it anyway since O'Reilly had zero trade protections and we saw how that turned out. It will hamper Botterill's replacement in the future though.

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

Because it gives Skinner complete control over if and when he is moved and it has the potential to completely suppress any return we could get from trading him if he agrees to be traded down the road, just like it did when Carolina traded him to us. On the bright side I guess it doesn't matter because Botterill wouldn't know how to leverage it anyway since O'Reilly had zero trade protections and we saw how that turned out. It will hamper Botterill's replacement in the future though.

Curious how people see last summer overall:

Basically, Skinner, Sobotka, Thompson and a first for O’Reilly, Pu and 3rd.

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Curious how people see last summer overall:

Basically, Skinner, Sobotka, Thompson and a first for O’Reilly, Pu and 3rd.

 

If I am JBOT I make that trade every day and twice on Sunday.

[Ducky]

Glad to see you guys re-signed him.

[SDS]

14 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

Because it gives Skinner complete control over if and when he is moved and it has the potential to completely suppress any return we could get from trading him if he agrees to be traded down the road, just like it did when Carolina traded him to us. On the bright side I guess it doesn't matter because Botterill wouldn't know how to leverage it anyway since O'Reilly had zero trade protections and we saw how that turned out. It will hamper Botterill's replacement in the future though.

I want to party with this guy. 

[Drunkard]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Curious how people see last summer overall:

Basically, Skinner, Sobotka, Thompson and a first for O’Reilly, Pu and 3rd.

 

I'd rather have O'Reilly with no trade protections  for 4 more seasons at $7.5 million ending at age 31 than Skinner for 8 more seasons at $9 million ending at age 35 with a full NMC. The rest of the pieces involved are immaterial.

3 minutes ago, SDS said:

I want to party with this guy. 

I'll be more fun once Mr. Cap Genius is fired and replaced with someone who knows how to negotiate. 

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

I'd rather have O'Reilly with no trade protections  for 4 more seasons at $7.5 million ending at age 31 than Skinner for 8 more seasons at $9 million ending at age 35 with a full NMC. The rest of the pieces involved are immaterial.

I'll be more fun once Mr. Cap Genius is fired and replaced with someone who knows how to negotiate. 

There’s a chance they could end up that way, but the equivalent of two late 1st rounders (thompson was the 26 pick, two years removed) is hardly immaterial at the moment. 

Edited June 8, 2019 by dudacek

[SDS]

6 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

I'll be more fun once Mr. Cap Genius is fired and replaced with someone who knows how to negotiate. 

I didn’t realize you lived in a Holiday Inn Express. 

[Neo]

Thoughts after a really good night’s sleep ..

1). If I’m the Sabres, I ink the deal.  My heartburn at $9/8 says more about the way the league’s structured than Buffalo/JB.  

2)  My over/under at 200 wasn’t snark, but an honest attempt to find the point at which opinions vary.  The number sounds low, but there are so many uncertainties over 8 years, excellent playing, coaching and GMing notwithstanding.  I hope he makes it inevitable during the next four years.

3)  This is the meat of Skinner’s career.  He made himself most attractive at the right time as far as contracts go.  He spent a full year with Buffalo, the Pagulas, JB, teammates.  He knows what the Sabres are.  With more options than he’ll ever have in the world’s top league, he chose Buffalo.

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Neo

[dudacek]

Just now, Neo said:

Thoughts after a really good night’s sleep ..

1). If I’m the Sabres, I ink the deal.  My heartburn at $9/8 says more about the way the league’s structured than Buffalo/JS.  

2)  My over/under at 200 wasn’t snark, but an honest attempt to find the point at which opinions vary.  The number sounds low, but there are so many uncertainties over 8 years, excellent playing, coaching and GMing notwithstanding.  I hope he makes it inevitable during the next four years.

3)  This is the meat of Skinner’s career.  He made himself most attractive at the right time as far as contracts go.  He spent a full year with Buffalo, JB, teammates.  He knows what the Sabres are.  With more options than he’ll ever have in the world’s top league, he chose Buffalo.

 

As have others. Because Buffalo remains unconvinced.

[Drunkard]

8 minutes ago, SDS said:

I didn’t realize you lived in a Holiday Inn Express. 

My apologies. Botterill is awesome and it's nothing but blue skies and smooth sailing ahead for the Sabres with him steering the ship! Life is beautiful. Pass the kool aid.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Drunkard

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, LTS said:

This was always the risk when the Sabres acquired him.  It had to be exactly the scenario they hoped for as well.

Acquire a guy who has solid 5v5 scoring and pair him with your top talent and watch pucks go in the net.  That's what happened.  If it continues to happen (and naturally that's what everyone is hoping for) then no one is going to complain about his $9M AAV.

It may mean a hard decision down the road, but teams are going to be facing that hard decision both with the impending NHL/NHLPA agreement and the expansion draft for Seattle. Every GM has to prep for that and the potential that comes out of that new agreement.

Bottom line, what's even $1M per year for the Sabres to now have the best odds of improving next year.  If Skinner walked the Sabres would have had to replace him AND find improvement elsewhere.  That would have required some serious UFA signings.

And for those freaking out about Skinner's $9M AAV.  I'm now waiting to see what the UFA period brings and how Skinner's contract looks by comparison.

I'm also glad the Sabres aren't facing a Marner situation.  I'd rather have Skinner's contract than deal with Marner right now.

I’m on board with Skinner’s contract, but Marner is better than Skinner   

 

30 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Curious how people see last summer overall:

Basically, Skinner, Sobotka, Thompson and a first for O’Reilly, Pu and 3rd.

 

I see your point, but kinda think this is artificial though.  The deals were independent of each other.  JB certainly did well in the Skinner deal, and he was in a difficult situation with ROR, but it’s hard to polish that hunk of poop.  

[Weave]

So, what is Sam's next contract worth now?

[#freejame]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

So, what is Sam's next contract worth now?

I’d rather have Sam for 8 more years than Skinner for 8 more. I’d say we’re lucky if it comes in under 8 at this point. Should have been closer to 7. 

[DarthEbriate]

10 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I see your point, but kinda think this is artificial though.  The deals were independent of each other.  JB certainly did well in the Skinner deal, and he was in a difficult situation with ROR, but it’s hard to polish that hunk of poop.  

But were we in such a bad place with O'Reilly?  Sure, he said he'd lost love for the game on locker room cleanout day...  but he's a perfectionist who'd be been on horrible teams for 5 of his 6 seasons. By training camp he'd be good to go again, especially after the Skinner acquisition. Eichel-Skinner; O'Reilly-Reinhart would have been a nifty way to start last season. (And Mitts can friendly starts and minutes.) Alas. All in the past.

[LGR4GM]

59 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

Because it gives Skinner complete control over if and when he is moved and it has the potential to completely suppress any return we could get from trading him if he agrees to be traded down the road, just like it did when Carolina traded him to us. On the bright side I guess it doesn't matter because Botterill wouldn't know how to leverage it anyway since O'Reilly had zero trade protections and we saw how that turned out. It will hamper Botterill's replacement in the future though.

You are tiring. All you do is bitch in every thread about the same thing. We get it, you think the gm is a ***** moron with every single decision he makes. 

[DarthEbriate]

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

So, what is Sam's next contract worth now?

More wealth than you can imagine. (I can imagine quite a bit.)

[Drunkard]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

You are tiring. All you do is bitch in every thread about the same thing. We get it, you think the gm is a ***** moron with every single decision he makes. 

Not true at all. I liked the trade that brought in Scandella and Pominville and I liked the trade that brought in Sheary and Hunwick and I've said as much. I also liked the trade to bring in Skinner even though I don't give much credit to Botterill for it because Skinner held all the cards and Carolina's only two choices were trade him to us or let him walk.

The O'Reilly deal is by far the worst part of his tenure but it's causing a ripple effect that  is still causing damage to the team going forward. Skinner's contract is too much money for too much term and full NMC protection is a prime example of it. He had no choice but to give Skinner everything he wanted because trading O'Reilly absolutely crippled our scoring depth. If Skinner didn't have ALL the leverage he probably would have only gotten overpaid in terms of 2 of the factors (money, term, and NMC) but not all 3.

[7+6=13]

1 hour ago, Drunkard said:

Because it gives Skinner complete control over if and when he is moved and it has the potential to completely suppress any return we could get from trading him if he agrees to be traded down the road, just like it did when Carolina traded him to us. On the bright side I guess it doesn't matter because Botterill wouldn't know how to leverage it anyway since O'Reilly had zero trade protections and we saw how that turned out. It will hamper Botterill's replacement in the future though.

The zero trade protections is the reason you're wrong about JBot. 

52 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

I'd rather have O'Reilly with no trade protections  for 4 more seasons at $7.5 million ending at age 31 than Skinner for 8 more seasons at $9 million ending at age 35 with a full NMC. The rest of the pieces involved are immaterial.

 

Absolutely not.  Giving Eichel a legit line-mate was the most important thing this team needed to do.  It's for that reason Skinner has infinite more value than O'Reilly at 2C.

[Drunkard]

2 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

The zero trade protections is the reason you're wrong about JBot. 

Absolutely not.  Giving Eichel a legit line-mate was the most important thing this team needed to do.  It's for that reason Skinner has infinite more value than O'Reilly at 2C.

It wasn't an either or situation. We had the cap space to have O'Reilly and Skinner last season.  Or O'Reilly could have been moved to Eichel's wing at any time but they never even tried it because he was needed at center and now we're still looking for a #2 center. Until that's fixed the Sabres will continue to tread water at best.

[7+6=13]

1 minute ago, Drunkard said:

It wasn't an either or situation. We had the cap space to have O'Reilly and Skinner last season.  Or O'Reilly could have been moved to Eichel's wing at any time but they never even tried it because he was needed at center and now we're still looking for a #2 center. Until that's fixed the Sabres will continue to tread water at best.

O'Reilly is no where near skilled enough to play wing for Eichel.  You proposed an either or situation and I responded - it's literally what you posted.  

I'm taking a legit NHL proven line mate for Eichel over O'Reilly every single time - in the choices you provided.  

If you want to change the discussion to Skinner and O'Reilly then do so. 

[dudacek]

43 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

I see your point, but kinda think this is artificial though.  The deals were independent of each other.  JB certainly did well in the Skinner deal, and he was in a difficult situation with ROR, but it’s hard to polish that hunk of poop.  

They were definitely separate deals and can be judged independently.

Where I was going is less about judging the deals and more about judging Botterill based on his body of work.

The ROR deal is definitely the biggest element for the huge “Botts is a moron“ contingent. And because of the playoffs it has been front and centre. The contract has shone the light on what most would consider his best move, acquiring Skinner.

Im curious how Sabrespace weighs the two. @Drunkard is think has done a good job responding. I’d like to hear what others think.

Edited June 8, 2019 by dudacek

[Drunkard]

2 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

O'Reilly is no where near skilled enough to play wing for Eichel.  You proposed an either or situation and I responded - it's literally what you posted.  

I'm taking a legit NHL proven line mate for Eichel over O'Reilly every single time - in the choices you provided.  

If you want to change the discussion to Skinner and O'Reilly then do so. 

Fair enough but I was just responding to a question posed by another poster up thread. He tried to merge all the moves together like they were a single mega deal so I gave my opinion based on his parameters. O'Reilly's contract was much better for the Sabres than Skinner's. 

[7+6=13]

3 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

Fair enough but I was just responding to a question posed by another poster up thread. He tried to merge all the moves together like they were a single mega deal so I gave my opinion based on his parameters. O'Reilly's contract was much better for the Sabres than Skinner's. 

I get it, but Skinner is so much more important for this team than O'Reilly was and would be.  So if it's an either or,  it's an easy choice.  

Of course we need a 2C and desperately.  O'Reilly would be the perfect player for the job in theory but hey JBot and/or the owners didn't want him on the team anymore.  We probably have 12-14 million to address 2C, top 6 winger and a top 4 defenseman.   Bit of a tall task but let's see what they do. 

[Drunkard]

4 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

I get it, but Skinner is so much more important for this team than O'Reilly was and would be.  So if it's an either or,  it's an easy choice.  

Of course we need a 2C and desperately.  O'Reilly would be the perfect player for the job in theory but hey JBot and/or the owners didn't want him on the team anymore.  We probably have 12-14 million to address 2C, top 6 winger and a top 4 defenseman.   Bit of a tall task but let's see what they do. 

No problem. We can agree to disagree. After 23 and 48 left and seeing what it did, I will always prioritize centers over wingers. The vast differences in the 2 contracts just magnifies it even further in my eyes but everyone sees it differently.