Casey Mittelstadt: Our 2nd Line Center?

[Brawndo]

Armstrong mentioned in to Jeremy Rutherford that the Tyler Bozak Signing was made since the price for ROR was too high. Arthur Staple mentioned the Isles were in until the late in the afternoon. I still think that Botterill was under pressure by ownership to get the deal done by July 1st and that severely hamstrung his return and potential trade partners. 

[North Buffalo]

46 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Armstrong mentioned in to Jeremy Rutherford that the Tyler Bozak Signing was made since the price for ROR was too high. Arthur Staple mentioned the Isles were in until the late in the afternoon. I still think that Botterill was under pressure by ownership to get the deal done by July 1st and that severely hamstrung his return and potential trade partners. 

Probably, but it did two things this playoffs, made the Leafs weaker and St. Louis deeper and tougher to play against.  I forget the price but short term, the Blues became really tough to play against in a long series.

That line has been wrecking havoc in these playoffs...

Edited May 20, 2019 by North Buffalo

[Broken Ankles]

On 5/18/2019 at 1:01 PM, inkman said:

Sobotka is not worthy of a nickname 

'Gone Girl'? 

[Gatorman0519]

The ROR trade will go down as one of the worst of all time in Sabre’s history.  

[shrader]

1 hour ago, Gatorman0519 said:

The ROR trade will go down as one of the worst of all time in Sabre’s history.  

Kozlov, Vyacheslav

[Sabel79]

4 minutes ago, shrader said:

Kozlov, Vyacheslav

Me, being reminded that happened...

 

[Broken Ankles]

3 hours ago, Sabel79 said:

Me, being reminded that happened...

 

is that Paul Hammy in the WGR55 offices? 

[inkman]

7 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

The ROR trade will go down as one of the worst of all time in Sabre’s history.  

Sobotka and Berglund weren't assests we aquired for ROR. They were necessary cap dumps to make the trade work. The real prize is the pick (Montour?) and hopefully Thompson. I'm not optimistic about Take but he's got a shot and is cost controlled for a good while especially if he continues to suck. ?

[Drunkard]

58 minutes ago, inkman said:

Sobotka and Berglund weren't assests we aquired for ROR. They were necessary cap dumps to make the trade work. The real prize is the pick (Montour?) and hopefully Thompson. I'm not optimistic about Take but he's got a shot and is cost controlled for a good while especially if he continues to suck. ?

O'Reilly is worth more than a first round pick and a team's 4th or 5th best prospect. People seem to love to make excuses for Botterill and why he made such a ***** trade, but any way you slice it the trade was *****. I believe he thought Berglund and Sobotka had actual value which makes me question his ability to evaluate talent. If he did only take them on as cap dumps to make the money work then I question his ability to judge talent anyway, because he received horrible value for a 1B center who produced well, is still in his prime, and is under contract for several more seasons. Doug Armstrong took him the shed and spanked him on this trade.

Imagine if we could trade a 1st round pick, Okposo, Pominville (while he still had 2 years on his contract), and Danny O'Regan to Edmonton for Ryan Nugent Hopkins. I think that's about on par with how the trade went, even though O'Reilly is a better #2 center than RNH.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Drunkard

[Curt]

There has to be a Ryan O’Reilly Trade thread somewhere that you guys can head over to if you want to discuss it for the 101st time.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Curtisp5286

[Drunkard]

2 minutes ago, Curtisp5286 said:

There has to be a Ryan O’Reilly Trade thread somewhere that you guys can head over to if you want to discuss it for the 101st time.

I thought this thread was about our idiot GM and how he was stupid enough to think Casey Mittelstadt was ready to center the second line before the season started. My mistake. Maybe if we had kept "he who will not be named" then Mittelstadt could have played wing in the top 6 and been more productive.

[LGR4GM]

I get the impression reading this thread, a good number of people think mittelstadt can't be a 2nd line center. I don't agree with that sentiment. 

18 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

I thought this thread was about our idiot GM and how he was stupid enough to think Casey Mittelstadt was ready to center the second line before the season started. My mistake. Maybe if we had kept "he who will not be named" then Mittelstadt could have played wing in the top 6 and been more productive.

We all know that trade sucked and botterill royally ***** up. A good portion thought that at the time of the trade and it's more apparent with how bad Tage was. 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Drunkard said:

O'Reilly is worth more than a first round pick and a team's 4th or 5th best prospect. People seem to love to make excuses for Botterill and why he made such a ***** trade, but any way you slice it the trade was *****. I believe he thought Berglund and Sobotka had actual value which makes me question his ability to evaluate talent. If he did only take them on as cap dumps to make the money work then I question his ability to judge talent anyway, because he received horrible value for a 1B center who produced well, is still in his prime, and is under contract for several more seasons. Doug Armstrong took him the shed and spanked him on this trade.

Imagine if we could trade a 1st round pick, Okposo, Pominville (while he still had 2 years on his contract), and Danny O'Regan to Edmonton for Ryan Nugent Hopkins. I think that's about on par with how the trade went, even though O'Reilly is a better #2 center than RNH.

I didn't say anything about how good the trade was and I'm done discussing that aspect. If he thought the players coming back had value shame on him and he will be judged for it. 

[Brawndo]

35 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I get the impression reading this thread, a good number of people think mittelstadt can't be a 2nd line center. I don't agree with that sentiment. 

We all know that trade sucked and botterill royally ***** up. A good portion thought that at the time of the trade and it's more apparent with how bad Tage was. 

Even Botterill mentioned that he believes that Mittelstadt can become a Top 6 Forward eventually.

And Casey played 77 games for a total of 899.3 minutes. By my rudimentary math skills that equals out to a little more than 11 and half minutes per game. That’s below what most third line centers get let alone second line ones, so the idea that he was the Sabres Second Line Center Last Season does not add up. 

And the trade sucked then and it sucks even more now, but I do find it conspicuous that Botterill unilaterally made the decision to not pay the bonus thereby significantly reducing the number of trade partners for ROR. 

[Curt]

2 hours ago, Drunkard said:

I thought this thread was about our idiot GM and how he was stupid enough to think Casey Mittelstadt was ready to center the second line before the season started. My mistake. Maybe if we had kept "he who will not be named" then Mittelstadt could have played wing in the top 6 and been more productive.

No.  It’s actually about Casey Mittelstadt.  What role can he play next season?  What role can he play eventually?

I read through a page and a half with seeing only a couple mentions of Mittelstadt, but ROR mentioned over and over again.  I’m not saying you can’t talk about Ryan O’Reilly if you want, but there must be a more relevant thread for it.

[LGR4GM]

I don't think mittelstadt will be ready for 2c this coming season. He needs another season before that's reasonable. 

[Curt]

59 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't think mittelstadt will be ready for 2c this coming season. He needs another season before that's reasonable. 

I tend to agree.  I feel like he has the talent to get to that level of 50+ point 2nd line C.  Not sure how long it will take to come.  With better linemates I think maybe he could put up 40 points next season, he may not get those better linemates next season though.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't think mittelstadt will be ready for 2c this coming season. He needs another season before that's reasonable. 

Let's hope it only takes 1 more season for him to be a true 2C.  Will probably take 2 more to get there.

But would be shocked if he doesn't get there eventually.  Kid can stickhandle through a phone booth even though he doesn't currently have man strength.  When he's not a kid anymore will be as much a piece of the core as Eichel, Dahlin, & Reinhart.  (Hopefully Montour earns the label of "core" this season as well.)

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Let's hope it only takes 1 more season for him to be a true 2C.  Will probably take 2 more to get there.

But would be shocked if he doesn't get there eventually.  Kid can stickhandle through a phone booth even though he doesn't currently have man strength.  When he's not a kid anymore will be as much a piece of the core as Eichel, Dahlin, & Reinhart.  (Hopefully Montour earns the label of "core" this season as well.)

That last point is often lost in the swoon that ended the season: Montour is a talented hockey player who scored at a 40-point pace without significant PP time, or teammates that were inclined to capitalize on what he offered.

Im interested to see what Krueger does with him.

[Broken Ankles]

24 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Let's hope it only takes 1 more season for him to be a true 2C.  Will probably take 2 more to get there.

But would be shocked if he doesn't get there eventually.  Kid can stickhandle through a phone booth even though he doesn't currently have man strength.  When he's not a kid anymore will be as much a piece of the core as Eichel, Dahlin, & Reinhart.  (Hopefully Montour earns the label of "core" this season as well.)

If he projects to be a  Bo Horvat would you be OK with that?  2013 Draft, #9 overall?  Goes back to Junior draft year, followed by - 25 pts, 40 pts, 52 pts, 44 pts and 61 pts this year at age 24.   There are your Monahan's, Ehler's, Tkachuk, Rantanaan's and Meier's, that show big gains between year 2 and 3 of their draft.  Then there are those that stagnate and show no growth like Bennett, Virtanen, Zacha and Jost.   I think CM's trend line will be slower and steady like Horvat.   So I'll predict 42 in a 3C role next year.  Although I'd be happy with something more explosive. 

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

If he projects to be a  Bo Horvat would you be OK with that?  2013 Draft, #9 overall?  Goes back to Junior draft year, followed by - 25 pts, 40 pts, 52 pts, 44 pts and 61 pts this year at age 24.   There are your Monahan's, Ehler's, Tkachuk, Rantanaan's and Meier's, that show big gains between year 2 and 3 of their draft.  Then there are those that stagnate and show no growth like Bennett, Virtanen, Zacha and Jost.   I think CM's trend line will be slower and steady like Horvat.   So I'll predict 42 in a 3C role next year.  Although I'd be happy with something more explosive. 

Really hoping he tops out a smidge better than that.  And expect him to be a 70 point player; but should he top out as a consistent 60 pointer, that still works.  Will be very disappointed if he's a 50 point guy in his prime.

The way he can stick handle in confined spaces is amazing.

And 42 seems about right for this year.

[Drunkard]

14 hours ago, Curtisp5286 said:

No.  It’s actually about Casey Mittelstadt.  What role can he play next season?  What role can he play eventually?

I read through a page and a half with seeing only a couple mentions of Mittelstadt, but ROR mentioned over and over again.  I’m not saying you can’t talk about Ryan O’Reilly if you want, but there must be a more relevant thread for it.

I think he's our 2nd line center next season. He's not ready for the role yet and he probably won't be proficient at the job for another season or 2, but that's where the team and roster is at so I'd rather see him try to grow into the role than watch our GM get taken to the shed again by trading Ristolainen for some mediocre stop gap like JT Miller.

It would be great if we had the center depth to break him in on the wing last season but that didn't happen so at this point it's better to just let him take his lumps now.

[Curt]

44 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

I think he's our 2nd line center next season. He's not ready for the role yet and he probably won't be proficient at the job for another season or 2, but that's where the team and roster is at so I'd rather see him try to grow into the role than watch our GM get taken to the shed again by trading Ristolainen for some mediocre stop gap like JT Miller.

It would be great if we had the center depth to break him in on the wing last season but that didn't happen so at this point it's better to just let him take his lumps now.

Yes, I could see that too.  Not spending big to bring in a legitimate #2C FA or making a trade for one.  Letting Casey grow into the role while the team continues the slow build path they have been on the past couple seasons.  Especially if the Sabres take a C with that #7 pick.

If that is the route they take, I would at least like to see a good #3C be brought in to make the middle 6 somewhat respectable (in addition to the W's that are needed of course).  Maybe someone like Copp from WIN.  He is a RFA and they need to make some cap room.

With improved wingers, I could see Casey taking a nice leap forward this coming season and performing like a low end #2C.  After all his most common linemates were Sheary and Okposo.  What can he do if he gets Reino and Olofsson for most of next season, or Skinner and ERod?

[Drunkard]

50 minutes ago, Curtisp5286 said:

Yes, I could see that too.  Not spending big to bring in a legitimate #2C FA or making a trade for one.  Letting Casey grow into the role while the team continues the slow build path they have been on the past couple seasons.  Especially if the Sabres take a C with that #7 pick.

If that is the route they take, I would at least like to see a good #3C be brought in to make the middle 6 somewhat respectable (in addition to the W's that are needed of course).  Maybe someone like Copp from WIN.  He is a RFA and they need to make some cap room.

With improved wingers, I could see Casey taking a nice leap forward this coming season and performing like a low end #2C.  After all his most common linemates were Sheary and Okposo.  What can he do if he gets Reino and Olofsson for most of next season, or Skinner and ERod?

Improved wingers plus the past year of experience should definitely help. He's not good enough to be saddled with mediocre players like Okposo and Pominville and he's definitely not good enough to perform while playing with a bum like Sobotka or players who aren't ready themselves like Thompson. I think we need to re-sign Skinner and then staple either him or Reinhart to his wing while making sure the 3rd guy on his line is at least as good as Rodriguez.

[LGR4GM]

21 hours ago, Drunkard said:

Improved wingers plus the past year of experience should definitely help. He's not good enough to be saddled with mediocre players like Okposo and Pominville and he's definitely not good enough to perform while playing with a bum like Sobotka or players who aren't ready themselves like Thompson. I think we need to re-sign Skinner and then staple either him or Reinhart to his wing while making sure the 3rd guy on his line is at least as good as Rodriguez.

Reinhart would be mine preferred choice and was last year when Housley continued to be the dumbest coach imaginable.