If fans could fire an owner, would you fire Terry?

[Stoner]

The question is limited to Terry because it's been explained several times he's exclusively or almost exclusively involved in the hockey side of things while Kim handles the business. I'd like the question to assume a new owner would also be contractually obligated to keep the Sabres in Buffalo. In other words, a strict referendum on how he's handled the team.

Edited April 11, 2019 by PASabreFan

[Zamboni]

Besides the Knox brothers, Terry has been the best owner in the history of this franchise. 

Way better than John “jailbird” Rigas

Much better than Tom “penny pincher” Golisano 

no, I wouldn’t fire him 

[dudacek]

Just when he is finally getting the hang of things?

[#freejame]

2 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Besides the Knox brothers, Terry has been the best owner in the history of this franchise. 

Way better than John “jailbird” Rigas

Much better than Tom “penny pincher” Golisano 

no, I wouldn’t fire him 

Regis was great to the fans, or at least STH. They had a ton of fan events. 

[klos1963]

16 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Besides the Knox brothers, Terry has been the best owner in the history of this franchise. 

Way better than John “jailbird” Rigas

Much better than Tom “penny pincher” Golisano 

no, I wouldn’t fire him 

We have had practically no success at all under Pegula, what makes you rank him above Rigas and Golisano?- quite a bit of playoff success under those 2.

[Zamboni]

9 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

We have had practically no success at all under Pegula, what makes you rank him above Rigas and Golisano?- quite a bit of playoff success under those 2.

My opinion is based on quality of ownership and what they have done for the organization and community.

You can have your opinion based on playoff appearances. No one is wrong here. It’s just opinions.

[PromoTheRobot]

Remember, it can always be worse.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Swap Pegula for Melnik (e5)

Edited April 11, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[Curt]

I think it would depend on who else is available.  What are the alternatives here?  ?

[Zamboni]

Harold Ballard was .... a peach 

Jeremy Jacobs is .... quite bad 

Edited April 11, 2019 by Zamboni

[Indabuff]

If Terry would just sit back with his drink of choice, sign the paychecks and let the "sports people" make the decisions I'd be happy.  The speculation he has his hand in football/hockey matters concerns me.  Actually it scares me.

[New Guy]

Management for the Bills seems to fortunately be set. I was very nervous and confused during McDermott's initial hire, Whaley being muted for that horrible end of the year PC, and giving a rookie GM lots of power in terms of the draft and possibly picking out his own GM. But McD looks like a grand slam and we're lucky to have him, especially after the Rex Ryan debacle. 

As for this team, who knows when things will get turned around. The tank teams are gone, the rebuild remains underway, and we can only change HC/GM so many more times. I'll still remain optimistic that this core will be able to contend in the near future.

As for the Pegulas as people, impact around WNY, willingness to spend (on both players and far too many unemployed front office members and coaches, too, sadly...), and how much they evidently care about the teams, we couldn't ask for more. As others have said, it could be far worse. I really hope he isn't as meddlesome as some rumors make him out to be, but I really don't think they are anymore at the very least (letting Jason fire Phil, McBeane having full freedom to shape the Bills roster over the last couple years, etc.). #TrustTheProcess

[nfreeman]

Are the new owners from fantasy land contractually obligated not only to keep the team in Buffalo but also to throw money at the team the way TP has?

It continues to amaze me that the OP does not understand how freaking miraculous it was that the heavens opened up and gave us a stinking rich owner for BOTH of our teams who wants to win, doesn’t care what it costs and has no interest in moving the teams.

This free stuff isn’t enough!  Give me more!  Do more for me!

[Sabel79]

The OP has an axe to grind.  In fact, it’s been ground past the hilt and I expect he’s lost a few fingers, thus making him angrier.  ??‍♂️ 

[Kruppstahl]

Most defenders of Pegula do so only because he kept the teams in Buffalo.

So if we can wave a magic wand and replace him with an equally wealthy owner equally dead-set on keeping the teams in Buffalo, yes, I'd replace him tomorrow.

He's terrible.

 

 

 

[That Aud Smell]

@PASabreFan has an ax to grind? Better believe it. The Sabres have stunk _out loud_ under Terry’s stewardship. Grind away. 

I voted “no,” because of the old adage: Better the devil you know ... .

Fundamentally, I think any observant, analytical fan has to be concerned with Terry as an owner. And it’s not because of the meddling - I’m past that, tbh. For me, I get the sense that Terry is apt to make poor decisions because he’s got questionable criteria and lousy instincts.

Blind squirrels can find nuts too, though.

[Weave]

6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Are the new owners from fantasy land contractually obligated not only to keep the team in Buffalo but also to throw money at the team the way TP has?

It continues to amaze me that the OP does not understand how freaking miraculous it was that the heavens opened up and gave us a stinking rich owner for BOTH of our teams who wants to win, doesn’t care what it costs and has no interest in moving the teams.

This free stuff isn’t enough!  Give me more!  Do more for me!

When we look back at Golisano and Rigas, one thing that stands out to me right along with the warts was, they expected to win even with the shackles that were put on the team.  There was no “it’s ok to lose now”.  There was an expectation of success even with substantial limitations.

And none of this ***** is free.  The emotional investment as well as financial investment of the fanbase is pretty substantial.  I think you can make a case that an ownership that expects fan support through all this also has a pretty strong sense of entitlement, which was your strongly implied point.

[Huckleberry]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

Just when he is finally getting the hang of things?

He doesn't, he needs to find people that do.

[Radar]

Question for PA. What exactly did the Pegulas do to get your anger against them. It's like it was there from the day they bought the franchise. I'm not one who has complete confidence in their handling things but I do think they are the best owners, all things considered, since the Knox brothers who unfortunately didn't have deep enough pockets.

[Claude_Verret]

40 minutes ago, Radar said:

Question for PA. What exactly did the Pegulas do to get your anger against them. It's like it was there from the day they bought the franchise. I'm not one who has complete confidence in their handling things but I do think they are the best owners, all things considered, since the Knox brothers who unfortunately didn't have deep enough pockets.

Its simple. The Pegulas dont spend all their time in Folrida on their yacht only signing the checks. Any involvement beyond that makes them bad owners.

[SDS]

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

@PASabreFan has an ax to grind? Better believe it. The Sabres have stunk _out loud_ under Terry’s stewardship. Grind away. 

I voted “no,” because of the old adage: Better the devil you know ... .

Fundamentally, I think any observant, analytical fan has to be concerned with Terry as an owner. And it’s not because of the meddling - I’m past that, tbh. For me, I get the sense that Terry is apt to make poor decisions because he’s got questionable criteria and lousy instincts.

Blind squirrels can find nuts too, though.

What observations have you made the past two years? Anything specific?

[nfreeman]

5 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

Most defenders of Pegula do so only because he kept the teams in Buffalo.

So if we can wave a magic wand and replace him with an equally wealthy owner equally dead-set on keeping the teams in Buffalo, yes, I'd replace him tomorrow.

He's terrible .

 

Well, by assuming that you can replace him with another wealthy and committed owner (which were not assumed in the OP, by the way) you’ve effectively assumed away the issue.

For me, it’s not just that he’s kept the teams in Buffalo.  It’s that he’s thrown money at them in a way that no Buffalo owner ever has and no one else is likely to do ever again as it is an economically irrational move.  Not to mention pouring money into developing downtown Buffalo (they weren’t exactly lining up to do that either), not extorting a bunch of money out of the city and generally being a fundamentally decent guy.

 

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

@PASabreFan has an ax to grind? Better believe it. The Sabres have stunk _out loud_ under Terry’s stewardship. Grind away. 

I voted “no,” because of the old adage: Better the devil you know ... .

Fundamentally, I think any observant, analytical fan has to be concerned with Terry as an owner. And it’s not because of the meddling - I’m past that, tbh. For me, I get the sense that Terry is apt to make poor decisions because he’s got questionable criteria and lousy instincts.

Blind squirrels can find nuts too, though.

I understand the dissatisfaction with with the results.  I do think though that evaluation of owners requires a much longer horizon than evaluation of coaches or players.  I think all of his hiring decisions have made sense on paper, and all arose out of a desire to improve the team.  

The biggest reason the Sabres are where they are was the idiotic decision to tank for Eichel, which at least half, and probably more, of the fan base and commentariat supported.  

My point is that it’s not like he’s been hiring his cousin who got laid off at the gas station to be the GM or his favorite waitress at the diner to be the coach (although I guess he did marry her and then make her team president, so...)

 

1 hour ago, Weave said:

When we look back at Golisano and Rigas, one thing that stands out to me right along with the warts was, they expected to win even with the shackles that were put on the team.  There was no “it’s ok to lose now”.  There was an expectation of success even with substantial limitations.

And none of this ***** is free.  The emotional investment as well as financial investment of the fanbase is pretty substantial.  I think you can make a case that an ownership that expects fan support through all this also has a pretty strong sense of entitlement, which was your strongly implied point.

Your 2nd paragraph is fair.  I don’t agree with the first paragraph at all.  TG did not give a crap about winning — the Sabres were purely an investment opportunity for him, which he cashed out of as soon as he had a good bid.  Rigas didn’t spend any money on the team — the Peca holdout, which was over a few hundred thousand, effectively torpedoed the Hasek era.  And TP IMHO absolutely cares about winning — that’s why he fired DR/RR and TM/DDB — because those groups let things fall apart.  

[Stoner]

2 hours ago, Radar said:

Question for PA. What exactly did the Pegulas do to get your anger against them. It's like it was there from the day they bought the franchise. I'm not one who has complete confidence in their handling things but I do think they are the best owners, all things considered, since the Knox brothers who unfortunately didn't have deep enough pockets.

February 22, 2011 (Pegula Day) was quite the roller coaster for me. He had me tearing up when he looked at Perreault and the "reason for existence" line gave me chills. Then, unfortunately, he kept talking. All the signs of trouble were there from the start. Lindy ain't goin' anywhere? It wasn't Terry's call. "I like hard-nosed, gritty players." (close to verbatim) Also not his call. He went over to the News editorial board and cleaned the gunk from under his nails onto the conference room table, a clear sign of disdain. He asked them was Darcy had done wrong, then told them part of the reason the team had quit was the negativity in the paper's coverage.

I've consistently credited him with ponying up the money and wanting to win. It's just not enough to want to win and to spend money. He's not a smart hockey guy. He's meddled (the latest nugget of evidence is three calls a day to his GM). His hires have been terrible. Botterill, the one hire he made it clear he was owning after saying he didn't have much to do with hiring Murray, is already halfway out the door because of a bad coaching hire and poor roster construction.

He's used the team as his personal toy in order to play "fantasy" owner. He said he didn't know the team was for sale in 2002, which makes his "superfan" claim bogus. He named his dog Sydney.

Should I continue?

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

For me, it’s not just that he’s kept the teams in Buffalo.  It’s that he’s thrown money at them in a way that no Buffalo owner ever has and no one else is likely to do ever again as it is an economically irrational move.  Not to mention pouring money into developing downtown Buffalo (they weren’t exactly lining up to do that either), not extorting a bunch of money out of the city and generally being a fundamentally decent guy.

He has no option to move the team. The credit goes to Tom for buying them out of bankruptcy and putting the no-move clause in the sales agreement. And of course to Terry for agreeing to the clause. As for throwing money at them, it wasn't a very smart decision in the summer of 2011, was it?

 

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

The biggest reason the Sabres are where they are was the idiotic decision to tank for Eichel, which at least half, and probably more, of the fan base and commentariat supported.

And Terry, not Darcy, made that decision. Terry and his Pittsburgh entourage who had seen it work down there. Black, Sawyer, Benson. Patrick maybe. Battista?!

Edited April 11, 2019 by PASabreFan

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

TG did not give a crap about winning — the Sabres were purely an investment opportunity for him, which he cashed out of as soon as he had a good bid.

Watch the clip of Briere's overtime goal in Game 6 against the Canes and tell me that guy with his hands on his head didn't care. Not a glass of Merlot in sight.