NEXT COACH should be? mega thread ...

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

Here's something to read also.....not sure if you have any siblings or how close to them you are, but you'll see what I mean when you read this. 

https://torontosun.com/2012/12/21/former-hockey-agent-david-frost-driven-out-of-kingston-book/wcm/de89c765-404d-4ace-b5bb-eed319cab0a9

Now I'm not saying Sheldon did anything wrong and isn't named in this article.....but I know who I wouldn't be associating with if someone had a very bad influence on my sibling. 

Edited May 11, 2019 by MakeSabresGrr8Again
dates not confirmed

[millbank]

As organization it would need be asked are you confident no Skeletons from past lurk.  He has said there has been no contact in many years now and Frost not welcome . Dubas gave him a shot  where nobody else would  in both Jr and AHL . To this point all successful . 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, millbank said:

 He has said there has been no contact in many years now and Frost not welcome

That article you posted was from 2013 where he said that.

[millbank]

1 minute ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

That article you posted was from 2013 where he said that.

Yes that’s true 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

9 minutes ago, millbank said:

Yes that’s true 

So, 2013 minus 5yrs would put it about 2008 since he had any contact with Frost. This could very well be true.....but his brother Adam did.

https://lagunahockey.wordpress.com/2010/06/25/hockeysummercamps/

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/david-frost-working-for-hockey-school-under-alias-in-california/article1214099/

these articles are from 2010 where they worked running hockey school in California.

 

[millbank]

16 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

So, 2013 minus 5yrs would put it about 2008 since he had any contact with Frost. This could very well be true.....but his brother Adam did.

https://lagunahockey.wordpress.com/2010/06/25/hockeysummercamps/

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/david-frost-working-for-hockey-school-under-alias-in-california/article1214099/

these articles are from 2010 where they worked running hockey school in California.

 

All could be true . What is certain is Keefe does have some baggage . One can decide for themselves if he has moved on from those days in a clear fashion and now a happily married man desiring to be best Coach he can be . I haven’t a agenda just do ponder those issues.  

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

41 minutes ago, millbank said:

All could be true . What is certain is Keefe does have some baggage . One can decide for themselves if he has moved on from those days in a clear fashion and now a happily married man desiring to be best Coach he can be . I haven’t a agenda just do ponder those issues.  

Same....but some of this makes you wonder for sure. I would have some question at an interview no doubt, if it even got that far.

[millbank]

1 minute ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Same....but some of this makes you wonder for sure. I would have some question at an interview no doubt, if it even got that far.

Personally while I feel everyone deserves a second chance I would err on side of  just not being sure my family most important  and declining this man at this point . He 38 years old still young in my eyes much to prove yet 

[dudacek]

7 hours ago, millbank said:

Personally while I feel everyone deserves a second chance I would err on side of  just not being sure my family most important  and declining this man at this point . He 38 years old still young in my eyes much to prove yet 

This is interesting. Guy was a teenage douchebag, under the influence of a bad, manipulative and charismatic man. He split from that man nearly 20(!) years ago.

Since that time, he seems to have found his calling (redemption?) in coaching.

He spent a decade coaching junior hockey to immense professional success. Near as I can tell, he kept his nose clean and has an excellent record as a leader of young men. He has repeated that at the minor league level going on four years now. His players and employers speak very well of him. He has an excellent track record of developing players for your organization, under the most intense scrutiny known to hockey.

Yet he still has “much to prove”

I’m curious, when does the statute of limitations expire on teenage indiscretion?

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by dudacek

[kas23]

11 hours ago, #freejame said:

Com’mon! A teenage hockey player got manipulated by an overzealous adult and you don’t think he’s obviously a bad decision because of it? Glad you’re not the one making decisions!

How many teenagers do you know, or have known, that have made similar poor decisions? This wasn’t a teenager going out for a night of joyriding in their parents’ car or smoking pot. It was a pattern over the span of years. Many of these things are clearly immoral, not just illegal. A misguided, but overall good kid, wouldn’t have let those events at the cabin go buried. This has nothing to do with his ability to coach, but it shows a lack of critical decision making, a basic inability to distinguish right from wrong, and the propensity to be easily manipulated. These are things that don’t easily fade into adulthood and I doubt the Pegulas would hire such a person. 

[millbank]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This is interesting. Guy was a teenage douchebag, under the influence of a bad, manipulative and charismatic man. He split from that man nearly 20(!) years ago.

Since that time, he seems to have found his calling (redemption?) in coaching.

He spent a decade coaching junior hockey to immense professional success. Near as I can tell, he kept his nose clean and has an excellent record as a leader of young men. He has repeated that at the minor league level going on four years now. His players and employers speak very well of him. He has an excellent track record of developing players for your organization, under the most intense scrutiny known to hockey.

Yet he still has “much to prove”

I’m curious, when does the statute of limitations experience on teenage indiscretion?

 

Fair question . Each can have their own opinion on that. 

[Eleven]

I think a lot of people are missing the effect that David Frost had on young kids.

[Torpedo Forecheck]

31 minutes ago, kas23 said:

How many teenagers do you know, or have known, that have made similar poor decisions? This wasn’t a teenager going out for a night of joyriding in their parents’ car or smoking pot. It was a pattern over the span of years. Many of these things are clearly immoral, not just illegal. A misguided, but overall good kid, wouldn’t have let those events at the cabin go buried. This has nothing to do with his ability to coach, but it shows a lack of critical decision making, a basic inability to distinguish right from wrong, and the propensity to be easily manipulated. These are things that don’t easily fade into adulthood and I doubt the Pegulas would hire such a person. 

C'mon. I guess you've never needed a second or third chance like most of us have. I actually have first hand experience with the guy and what you said is a croc of BS.

[Weave]

Those are some pretty ugly revelations.  Canadian youth hockey seems to bring out some of the ugliest stuff. 

Me personally, I'm not sure my choice to lead the team out of the abyss would be a redemption case.  Maybe that says something about me, maybe it doesn't.  I just know that if I absolutely had to get this next decision right, I'm not leading off with this particular back story.  I mean, when I read those snippets I thought of Cal O'Reilly.  And I don't need that potential in the mix.

[#freejame]

38 minutes ago, Weave said:

Those are some pretty ugly revelations.  Canadian youth hockey seems to bring out some of the ugliest stuff. 

Me personally, I'm not sure my choice to lead the team out of the abyss would be a redemption case.  Maybe that says something about me, maybe it doesn't.  I just know that if I absolutely had to get this next decision right, I'm not leading off with this particular back story.  I mean, when I read those snippets I thought of Cal O'Reilly.  And I don't need that potential in the mix.

I hear a lot about Cal O’Reilly and Nylander but I’ve seemed to have missed what happened. Can you fill me in?

[kas23]

1 hour ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

C'mon. I guess you've never needed a second or third chance like most of us have. I actually have first hand experience with the guy and what you said is a croc of BS.

Since you’ve had “first hand experience with the guy”, did you ask him about why he’s remaining silent about Frost forcing an underaged boy to have sex at gunpoint? There’s pictures, it’s not like it didn’t happen, but the case went nowhere without witnesses speaking up. Should he get a 2nd or 3rd chance for that? I don’t really care about the unsportsmanlike behavior, but the other stuff is disgusting. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

This is interesting. Guy was a teenage douchebag, under the influence of a bad, manipulative and charismatic man. He split from that man nearly 20(!) years ago.

Since that time, he seems to have found his calling (redemption?) in coaching.

He spent a decade coaching junior hockey to immense professional success. Near as I can tell, he kept his nose clean and has an excellent record as a leader of young men. He has repeated that at the minor league level going on four years now. His players and employers speak very well of him. He has an excellent track record of developing players for your organization, under the most intense scrutiny known to hockey.

Yet he still has “much to prove”

I’m curious, when does the statute of limitations expire on teenage indiscretion?

 

20yrs is a stretch  and I'd say more like 10yrs and he wasn't a teenager then.

During the 2005-06 season, Keefe's then agent, David Frost, caused a wave of concern throughout the CJHL when he was found in an off limits area of an Ottawa arena. He was also filmed by CBC's The Fifth Estate which then ran a documentary showing Frost attending several Lumber Kings games, thus putting the league in a bad light considering the ongoing criminal investigation of a sexual nature against Frost at the time.^[8][8][9]

In another article posted on here, he says he hadn't seen him in about 5yrs, and that was in 2013 putting the time frame around 2008. He would've been about 28yrs old at that time. Yes, maybe he cleaned up his act and deserves a 2nd chance, I'm not saying he doesn't and only would have some concern at an interview to question some things to ease my concerns. Like his brother's contact with Frost in 2010 when running a hockey school in California. Did Sheldon have any contact with him then? That would throw off the "5yrs" timeframe.

[Torpedo Forecheck]

Wow, I can't believe the takes on here from some of you. Best of luck but not worth my time.

[Torpedo Forecheck]

30 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Since you’ve had “first hand experience with the guy”, did you ask him about why he’s remaining silent about Frost forcing an underaged boy to have sex at gunpoint? There’s pictures, it’s not like it didn’t happen, but the case went nowhere without witnesses speaking up. Should he get a 2nd or 3rd chance for that? I don’t really care about the unsportsmanlike behavior, but the other stuff is disgusting. 

Your posts speak for themselves. Weak IMO

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 hours ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

Your posts speak for themselves. Weak IMO

As do yours.

I don't think anyone here has posted anything they weren't able to back up with links to articles and Sheldon's own words.

If you had a good personal encounter with him then good for you and him. I don't think that anyone believes that people "can't" change nor do they not believe in 2nd chances. Just that there are some extreme events and that happened and some timelines that are hard to just ignore.

Like Lehner, I hope none of the past has scarred him or anyone else involved and only hope they can or have recovered from whatever skeletons are in the closet. Sometimes bringing things out can help in that recovery. But in some cases people maybe should know so they can not only form an opinion but also possibly help in the healing process.

[Torpedo Forecheck]

15 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

As do yours.

I don't think anyone here has posted anything they weren't able to back up with links to articles and Sheldon's own words.

If you had a good personal encounter with him then good for you and him. I don't think that anyone believes that people "can't" change nor do they not believe in 2nd chances. Just that there are some extreme events and that happened and some timelines that are hard to just ignore.

Like Lehner, I hope none of the past has scarred him or anyone else involved and only hope they can or have recovered from whatever skeletons are in the closet. Sometimes bringing things out can help in that recovery. But in some cases people maybe should know so they can not only form an opinion but also possibly help in the healing process.

Couldn't help but stick your nose into someone else's conversation and then insult me because I have a different opinion. Some of you guys are special!

[Weave]

12 minutes ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

Couldn't help but stick your nose into someone else's conversation and then insult me because I have a different opinion. Some of you guys are special!

Umm.... isn’t this exactly what you are accusing other of?

[Radar]

2 hours ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

Your posts speak for themselves. Weak IMO

Man, you seem the one who's posts speak for themselves. No one it seems to me has said anything insulting or offensive. You're speaking like someone who isn't particularly objective here.

[nfreeman]

Does anyone have any specifics on what Keefe’s involvement/regrettable conduct was?   I clicked on 2 of the links up thread and didn’t see anything. (I’m not a big fan of Gare Joyce’s work, by the way, and his piece did nothing to improve my opinion of it.)

if you’ve got something informative, pls post a link.  

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

3 hours ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

Couldn't help but stick your nose into someone else's conversation and then insult me because I have a different opinion. Some of you guys are special!

I didn't insult you or your opinion. You are welcome to your opinion anytime. These are open public conversations with no need to "stick your nose into" as all are invite to comment. Especially seeing I was in this convo from the start pretty much.

I also congratulated you on your experience will Keefe in all honesty. I also said I hoped that everything goes well with him. I really don't see what your issue is.