Per Botterill: Sabres have relieved Phil Housley of his Coaching Duties

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

I'm not sure what your point is then. Are you saying AV is good because he was able to coach to his team's strengths? 

I don't know I kinda lost myself there for a bit

A) I'm worried his success was in a different league, and he coached to fit that league, and it's not the same league anymore

[Derrico]

3 minutes ago, WildCard said:

I don't know I kinda lost myself there for a bit

A) I'm worried his success was in a different league, and he coached to fit that league, and it's not the same league anymore

But again.  Wouldn't making the second round 2 years ago negate this point?  By the way, I enjoy the discussion.

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, WildCard said:

I don't know I kinda lost myself there for a bit

A) I'm worried his success was in a different league, and he coached to fit that league, and it's not the same league anymore

I don't know if that's really even a thing to worry about. The principles of the game don't really change, just the way the league enforces rules. 

The Sabres are a finesse scoring team similar to the Canucks back then. They used mobile defensemen to move the play. I think AV might find the situation familiar. 

[WildCard]

Just now, Derrico said:

But again.  Wouldn't making the second round 2 years ago negate this point?  By the way, I enjoy the discussion.

Yeah idk, it's hard to tell. That's success for sure, but if he still played the same style I don't want anything to do with it, because I don't think that's sustainable now

And same ? 

Just now, darksabre said:

I don't know if that's really even a thing to worry about. The principles of the game don't really change, just the way the league enforces rules. 

The Sabres are a finesse scoring team similar to the Canucks back then. They used mobile defensemen to move the play. I think AV might find the situation familiar. 

Vancouver had some grit too with Bieska and a few others

[TrueBlueGED]

1 minute ago, Derrico said:

But again.  Wouldn't making the second round 2 years ago negate this point?  By the way, I enjoy the discussion.

Not entirely. His Rangers success was built on relying on Lundqvist. We, uh, don't have that. You can day be coached to his team's strengths, but frankly, even in Vancouver he had Luongo in his prime. Can he win in 2019 with what is likely to be average at best goaltending? It's a fair question to ask. 

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I don't know if that's really even a thing to worry about. The principles of the game don't really change, just the way the league enforces rules. 

The Sabres are a finesse scoring team similar to the Canucks back then. They used mobile defensemen to move the play. I think AV might find the situation familiar. 

Luongo versus Hutton/Ullmark is a huge difference, though. 

[Derrico]

1 minute ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Not entirely. His Rangers success was built on relying on Lundqvist. We, uh, don't have that. You can day be coached to his team's strengths, but frankly, even in Vancouver he had Luongo in his prime. Can he win in 2019 with what is likely to be average at best goaltending? It's a fair question to ask. 

Luongo versus Hutton/Ullmark is a huge difference, though. 

I think this is a whole different point.  I completely agree you need good goaltending.  Until we get that this team isn't going anywhere regardless of who coaches.  I could see a quick turnaround and playoffs but we're not a real contender until we figure out what's going on in net.  I would still want AV even with what we have and hope Ullmark makes a big jump next year or Botts can find a way to figure it out.  Again, that will be an issue with any coach we hire.

[darksabre]

2 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Not entirely. His Rangers success was built on relying on Lundqvist. We, uh, don't have that. You can day be coached to his team's strengths, but frankly, even in Vancouver he had Luongo in his prime. Can he win in 2019 with what is likely to be average at best goaltending? It's a fair question to ask. 

Luongo versus Hutton/Ullmark is a huge difference, though. 

Have any coaches on the prospect list won with average goaltending? I don't think we can simply reduce this to the Hasek/Nolan comparable.

1 minute ago, Derrico said:

I think this is a whole different point.  I completely agree you need good goaltending.  Until we get that this team isn't going anywhere regardless of who coaches.  I could see a quick turnaround and playoffs but we're not a real contender until we figure out what's going on in net.  I would still want AV even with what we have and hope Ullmark makes a big jump next year or Botts can find a way to figure it out.  Again, that will be an issue with any coach we hire.

Took the words outta my mouth.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Derrico said:

I think this is a whole different point.  I completely agree you need good goaltending.  Until we get that this team isn't going anywhere regardless of who coaches.  I could see a quick turnaround and playoffs but we're not a real contender until we figure out what's going on in net.  I would still want AV even with what we have and hope Ullmark makes a big jump next year or Botts can find a way to figure it out.  Again, that will be an issue with any coach we hire.

We have 2 questions to answer. Are Hutton and Ullmark really that bad and how much did the defense being a complete cluster f### in their own zone play in?

[Derrico]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

We have 2 questions to answer. Are Hutton and Ullmark really that bad and how much did the defense being a complete cluster f### in their own zone play in?

This is a fair point as well.  Either Housely system or the Sabres lack of talent left a ton of wide open scoring chances against.

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

We have 2 questions to answer. Are Hutton and Ullmark really that bad and how much did the defense being a complete cluster f### in their own zone play in?

Hutton is who he's always been: a goalie that can pull starter duty on and off, but not full time. He's streaky.

Ullmark should have been better this year, but I think his lack of development is on the coaching staff. Bring in a better goalie coach and maybe he improves.

The *team* defense being a mess didn't help things any.

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Not entirely. His Rangers success was built on relying on Lundqvist. We, uh, don't have that. You can day be coached to his team's strengths, but frankly, even in Vancouver he had Luongo in his prime. Can he win in 2019 with what is likely to be average at best goaltending? It's a fair question to ask. 

Luongo versus Hutton/Ullmark is a huge difference, though. 

I would build a system around Lundqvist too if I had that roster.

Can any coach win in 2019 with Hutton and Ullmark? That’s a fair question to ask.

 

Separately, McLellan and AV are both in their 50s.They are similar vintage to Babcock and Boudreau and younger than Quenville. They have similar records to those three.

Why should we think the game has passed them by, but not the other guys?

Edited April 9, 2019 by dudacek

[darksabre]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I would build a system around Lundqvist too if I had that roster.

Can any coach win in 2019 with Hutton and Ullmark? That’s a fair question to ask.

 

Separately, McLellan and AV are both in their 50s.They are similar vintage to Babcock and Boudreau and younger than Quenville. They have similar records to those three.

Why should we think the game has passed them by, but not the other guys?

Not to mention Hitchcock who is, what, a hundred years old?

[WildCard]

 

[SDS]

Just now, WildCard said:

 

Yikes. Given that he owns both set of numbers.... What a wack-a-doodle.

I predict this will not end well.

[darksabre]

Some beach, somewhere...

[LTS]

2 hours ago, darksabre said:

Hutton is who he's always been: a goalie that can pull starter duty on and off, but not full time. He's streaky.

Ullmark should have been better this year, but I think his lack of development is on the coaching staff. Bring in a better goalie coach and maybe he improves.

The *team* defense being a mess didn't help things any.

All of this.  I saw too much of Lehner and Johnson from last year begin to appear in Hutton and Ullmark this year.  Same soft spots, over-aggressive pursuit of shooters, etc.  

 

[Stoner]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

We have 2 questions to answer. Are Hutton and Ullmark really that bad and how much did the defense being a complete cluster f### in their own zone play in?

There were so many goofy goals — shots that leaked in that had no business going in no matter the circumstances that led to them. They were bad. And so was the defense.

 

[Zamboni]

IMO everyone except Eichel, Reinhart, and Skinner regressed or plateaued under the masterful watch of Phil “lack of in game adjustments and head scratching lines” Housley. 

Good by-eeee Housley!!!

[Brawndo]

Kevin Snow reported in the Half Hour Hockey Show that there was a meeting between Botterill and Team Leadership Eichel and Okposo were mentioned last week and that it did get quite animated. The players apparently were not happy with Phil 

 

Here is the link

 

[SDS]

Just now, Brawndo said:

Kevin Snow reported in the Half Hour Hockey Show that there was a meeting between Botterill and Team Leadership Eichel and Okposo were mentioned last week and that it did get quite animated. The players apparently were not happy with Phil 

If true, this would contradict what they said to the public on locker room cleanout day! NO WAY!

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

Kevin Snow reported in the Half Hour Hockey Show that there was a meeting between Botterill and Team Leadership Eichel and Okposo were mentioned last week and that it did get quite animated. The players apparently were not happy with Phil 

You may not know but

A) Who got animated?

B) Unhappy with what?

[Derrico]

16 minutes ago, WildCard said:

You may not know but

A) Who got animated?

B) Unhappy with what?

Purely my guess

A) All of them

B) Getting caved in every night.  Plus possibly the largest collapse in franchise history....

Frankly if they didn't show emotion I would be more concerned

Edited April 9, 2019 by Derrico

[Hoss]

4 hours ago, WildCard said:

 

Karin Housley is a racist idiot.

[calti]

On 4/7/2019 at 7:12 PM, TrueBlueGED said:

The grinders love him. There's no evidence the high skill players that actually win games love him. 

we have no grinders

6 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Karin Housley is a racist idiot.

that was an unfortunate use of words by her....bill Clinton woulda laughed his arss off at that one

Edited April 9, 2019 by calti

[LGR4GM]

19 minutes ago, calti said:

we have no grinders

that was an unfortunate use of words by her....bill Clinton woulda laughed his arss off at that one

It was a racist use of words but let's move on. 

 

I think Phil being gone will help the defense most. His seemed to not explain or teach the defensive zone properly for the players he had. You can't force guys to do things they can't. You either have to teach them to do it, or do something else.