GDT Nashville at Buffalo 4/2/19 7 PM

[SwampD]

And hey, no empty net goal against.

[Kruppstahl]

Notice how Jack was skating with the puck and making things happen all over the ice?  And how he kept doing things that shouted "look at me, I have a ton of talent"? 

Know why he isn't like that every game?  Because he likes to take nights off.

Tonight we got motivated Jack (for whatever reason), and it's a very different Jack than we see on a lot of nights.

Overall performance was much, much better tonight.  Glad we lost.

 

 

 

 

 

[dudacek]

What was interesting about this game was the play of the veterans. With the exception of Reinhart forgetting his hands at home, it was the most consistent effort as a group we’ve had in some time from the Skinner, Rodrigues, Eichel, Reinhart, Sheary, Okposo, Ristolainen, McCabe group that should be the backbone of the team this year.

Edited April 3, 2019 by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

Didn't he do something untoward to minors, so he his music isn't played anymore?

Yup. Big time. In prison now I think. 

[Weave]

5 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

Notice how Jack was skating with the puck and making things happen all over the ice?  And how he kept doing things that shouted "look at me, I have a ton of talent"? 

Know why he isn't like that every game?  Because he likes to take nights off.

Tonight we got motivated Jack (for whatever reason), and it's a very different Jack than we see on a lot of nights.

Overall performance was much, much better tonight.  Glad we lost.

 

 

 

 

 

You had me until your last sentence.

[nucci]

7 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

Notice how Jack was skating with the puck and making things happen all over the ice?  And how he kept doing things that shouted "look at me, I have a ton of talent"? 

Know why he isn't like that every game?  Because he likes to take nights off.

Tonight we got motivated Jack (for whatever reason), and it's a very different Jack than we see on a lot of nights.

Overall performance was much, much better tonight.  Glad we lost.

 

 

 

 

 

you're glad your team lost?

[...]

7 hours ago, SwampD said:

Depending where you are it could be as little as a second or 2. If there are several satellite hops and your cable company sucks, it could be 6 or 7 seconds. NHL.TV is another story.

I just got done watching the replay at midnight and I heard it all. Even though there may be iso records of all the individual mics (bench, center ice, blue line, corners, net, etc), there is no way they are doing a remix of the game for those of us that are watching it now. It's just an F-bomb FFS.

If memory serves you are in the broadcasting business.  I don't remember what part, but not everyone here knows what happens behind the curtains so it's in their best interest to be somewhat thorough.  Also, you're saying one thing and I'm saying something else.  I don't wish to step on toes, but I think you're wrong that there is no (intentional) video delay.

There is "operational delay", which is satellite hops and also today with all of the digital equipment each unit or step adds its own processing latency. They most certainly add intentional delay to live events for various reasons.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/01/if-you-re-streaming-the-super-bowl-over-the-internet-stay-off-facebook-and-twitter/index.htm

Radio these days use 20 second delays (I have direct knowledge of this).  The business I'm in deals in digital broadcast technology.  In fact I will be at NAB next week looking at some of this very stuff.

Older analog technology would literally be on a tape loop that gave them 7 second max. I doubt hockey games were delayed by analog equipment but I'm willing to bet lots of money they have intentional delay in our digital era.  The equipment is cheap and the utility of it far outweighs not having it there.

These are only 20 second delays, but there are a variety of others: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ci=5721&fct=fct_delay-range-max_2941|20-seconds&N=4028759659

You can thank internet streaming for another reason to add intentional delay to video - one of the solutions to matching internet stream latency to broadcast latency is to delay (further) the broadcast stream.

 

[SwampD]

57 minutes ago, ... said:

If memory serves you are in the broadcasting business.  I don't remember what part, but not everyone here knows what happens behind the curtains so it's in their best interest to be somewhat thorough.  Also, you're saying one thing and I'm saying something else.  I don't wish to step on toes, but I think you're wrong that there is no (intentional) video delay.

There is "operational delay", which is satellite hops and also today with all of the digital equipment each unit or step adds its own processing latency. They most certainly add intentional delay to live events for various reasons.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/01/if-you-re-streaming-the-super-bowl-over-the-internet-stay-off-facebook-and-twitter/index.htm

Radio these days use 20 second delays (I have direct knowledge of this).  The business I'm in deals in digital broadcast technology.  In fact I will be at NAB next week looking at some of this very stuff.

Older analog technology would literally be on a tape loop that gave them 7 second max. I doubt hockey games were delayed by analog equipment but I'm willing to bet lots of money they have intentional delay in our digital era.  The equipment is cheap and the utility of it far outweighs not having it there.

These are only 20 second delays, but there are a variety of others: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ci=5721&fct=fct_delay-range-max_2941|20-seconds&N=4028759659

You can thank internet streaming for another reason to add intentional delay to video - one of the solutions to matching internet stream latency to broadcast latency is to delay (further) the broadcast stream.

 

Yeah, those radio delay units are cool, where you don’t hear a gap in audio when they get rid of an offending word and then the buffer gradually fills back up again. It’s such a cool idea. 

I have firsthand knowledge of those broadcast trucks. I even did a Bruins/Isles game a million years ago. They don’t intentionally add delay to the broadcast because there is just no reason to do it. The only delay that is intentionally added is to the audio to sync it up to the video. Every piece of video gear (3D graphics, lower thirds, the switcher itself,...) adds at least a frame (33.3ms). Audio consoles are almost instantaneous. You start to notice lip flap at about 2 frames, so delay is added to match them up and it’s a big pain in the ass and consumes a large part of my brain activity every day and I wish these vidiots would get ther chit together so I wouldn’t have to clean up their mess,... whew, sorry.

Edited April 3, 2019 by SwampD

[SwampD]

I’m not going to NAB. Wish I was. I see you there next year.?

[...]

I'm not talking audio, although I did reference it for the sake of educating the others reading this. Audio is easy, they've had digital delays with ramping for audio since the late 80's. Digital video delay is relatively new (that article I linked to was from 2015).  It takes a lot of horse-power to delay HD signals.  But, like I said, it's become too affordable not to implement. 

When was the last time you were inside a truck?  Not at all doubting your experience, but it doesn't align with what I know, so I find it compelling (in a geeky/business sense). If it's been a "million years" things may have changed - we are, after all, still going through a "digital transformation".  I would be curious to know if you asked around about video delays what responses you'd get.

 

[Eleven]

There is a delay and it is somewhere around Sobotka's axons.  He has unusually large synapses.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Eleven

[Stoner]

9 hours ago, SwampD said:

They aren't.

They do not have a delay unit for hockey. And usually, if the audio guy hears something like that, he's turning it up.?

It's up to a director to not take a gruesome shot.

It's not that much. Depending where you are it could be as little as a second or 2. If there are several satellite hops and your cable company sucks, it could be 6 or 7 seconds. NHL.TV is another story.

I just got done watching the replay at midnight and I heard it all. Even though there may be iso records of all the individual mics (bench, center ice, blue line, corners, net, etc), there is no way they are doing a remix of the game for those of us that are watching it now. It's just an F-bomb FFS.

Thanks. It all makes sense. If ... is right,  my whole hockey life has been a lie. The Sabres won the playoff game in OT, but I didn't know for 30 seconds? I can't abide that.

The f-bomb issue is an interesting one. What about the FCC? I can see how they'd be lenient toward it happening "live" and unscripted. But with the opportunity to take it out, isn't MSG essentially deliberately broadcasting profanity? It's practically in the script at that point.

Edited April 3, 2019 by PASabreFan

[SwampD]

21 minutes ago, ... said:

I'm not talking audio, although I did reference it for the sake of educating the others reading this. Audio is easy, they've had digital delays with ramping for audio since the late 80's. Digital video delay is relatively new (that article I linked to was from 2015).  It takes a lot of horse-power to delay HD signals.  But, like I said, it's become too affordable not to implement. 

When was the last time you were inside a truck?  Not at all doubting your experience, but it doesn't align with what I know, so I find it compelling (in a geeky/business sense). If it's been a "million years" things may have changed - we are, after all, still going through a "digital transformation".  I would be curious to know if you asked around about video delays what responses you'd get.

 

That article is about streaming, though, not broadcast. Yes streaming is very delayed. That's why I mentioned NHL.TV. That's almost a minute delayed, but that has to do with decoding and encoding and traveling through multiple switches and a bunch of other stuff that I don't want to know about.

I do know that, like the article said, larger events like the Super Bowl and Grammys and such add delay, but those are huge events. They're not adding delay for a Tuesday night Sabres game.? I just walked by our truck to get into my building minutes ago and there is no delay unit in there. Again, I'm just talking about the production side. There is no production reason to add delay most nights and it's a pain.

 

[Eleven]

24 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Thanks. It all makes sense. If ... is right,  my whole hockey life has been a lie. The Sabres won the playoff game in OT, but I didn't know for 30 seconds? I can't abide that.

The f-bomb issue is an interesting one. What about the FCC? I can see how they'd be lenient toward it happening "live" and unscripted. But with the opportunity to take it out, isn't MSG essentially deliberately broadcasting profanity? It's practically in the script at that point.

It's cable, though, not broadcast, so the FCC can suck it.

[Stoner]

43 minutes ago, Eleven said:

It's cable, though, not broadcast, so the FCC can suck it.

Ah. Thank you.

[dudacek]

This is all interesting, but it doesn’t answer what I really need to know: how does @Brawndo gets everything first: audio, video, tweets, smoke signals, the next word Rob Ray is going to mangle before Ray even opens his mouth...

[Wyldnwoody44]

Well the Hare Krishnas have let me down, I guess maybe it's time to write off Hinduism now. 

 

Nahhh, Hinduism is way more exciting than the Sabres. 

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

This is all interesting, but it doesn’t answer what I really need to know: how does @Brawndo gets everything first: audio, video, tweets, smoke signals, the next word Rob Ray is going to mangle before Ray even opens his mouth...

The Sentinel?

[Formerly Allan in MD]

13 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

Notice how Jack was skating with the puck and making things happen all over the ice?  And how he kept doing things that shouted "look at me, I have a ton of talent"? 

Know why he isn't like that every game?  Because he likes to take nights off.

Tonight we got motivated Jack (for whatever reason), and it's a very different Jack than we see on a lot of nights.

Overall performance was much, much better tonight.  Glad we lost.

 

 

 

 

 

Eichel shouldn't be doing that on the power play.  The key there is rapid puck movement.  Someone will always be open and you need to get the puck to him so he can fire away.  Going one on four, as Jack was doing, is generally a recipe for turning the puck over and killing the momentum.

[Wyldnwoody44]

13 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Eichel shouldn't be doing that on the power play.  The key there is rapid puck movement.  Someone will always be open and you need to get the puck to him so he can fire away.  Going one on four, as Jack was doing, is generally a recipe for turning the puck over and killing the momentum.

The last few years (eye test only) the Sabres are very very bad at passing. They have a couple players that can do it (Jack being one) which is why it blows my mind that he does that on the PP

The rest of them, I honestly don't think they're capable of the rapid passing needed for a suitable PP, ROR was that key piece in the middle that could make the D open up, and it's gone. 

To add insult, the coaching staff hasn't even slightly figured out how to correct this leading to a simply anemic man advantage. 

[dudacek]

I don’t think the Sabres passing is nearly as poor as what it used to be.

Montour and Dahlin have greatly added to that area and Pilut and Nylander look to be quite good there as well. (Skinner is a different story, but that’s why he’s only a $7 million player)

One thing that I’d like to see Jack do more of is moving the puck more quickly. I know his Sabres experience has taught him that hanging on to the puck is frequently his best option, but there are times he’d be better off one-touching than carrying and attempting to beat guys himself.

That said, he may be the best in the league at carrying the puck into the zone.

[SwampD]

23 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don’t think the Sabres passing is nearly as poor as what it used to be.

Montour and Dahlin have greatly added to that area and Pilut and Nylander look to be quite good there as well. (Skinner is a different story, but that’s why he’s only a $7 million player)

One thing that I’d like to see Jack do more of is moving the puck more quickly. I know his Sabres experience has taught him that hanging on to the puck is frequently his best option, but there are times he’d be better off one-touching than carrying and attempting to beat guys himself.

That said, he may be the best in the league at carrying the puck into the zone.

Amen. I was frustrated with him one minute into the game. He had the puck along the near boards skating toward the blue line. Montour heads in totally expecting Jack to hand the puck off to him, which was the right play. Montour would have been in space to either shoot or make a pass to Sheary(?) who was between the circles. Instead, he keeps it, fumbles it and takes a terrible shot from the point with his D man deep.

I really wonder if he knows how to cycle the puck.

Edited April 3, 2019 by SwampD

[Kruppstahl]

7 hours ago, nucci said:

you're glad your team lost?

Of course.  It's all about draft positioning now, and piling it on to ensure Housley gets fired.

I'd like to see these guys actually be good some day.

 

9 hours ago, Weave said:

You had me until your last sentence.

Which part?  What are you trying to say?

Don't like losing, or you thought the overall team performance was bad?

 

[Kruppstahl]

1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Eichel shouldn't be doing that on the power play.  The key there is rapid puck movement.  Someone will always be open and you need to get the puck to him so he can fire away.  Going one on four, as Jack was doing, is generally a recipe for turning the puck over and killing the momentum.

I'm not talking about the PP.  I'm talking about him skating forcefully and dominantly in the O zone with the puck on his stick, pulling defenders out of position, breaking the defensive posture of the team down, and moving or passing to dangerous areas.

He does that all the time when he is on his game.  He has the skill, puck skills, size, and speed to play a very physical game in that manner any night he chooses to.  Unfortunately, he takes nights off.

It's important to point it out on a night when he is really on his game so you can see what I'm talking about in terms of Jack on his game.

Other games you don't hardly notice him all game long.  When Jack blends in like that he's not being Jack.

He has the skill to be able to, and should, stand out in any NHL game on any night.

Too often he doesn't.  That's my entire point.

But our woes go way beyond Jack, and he is a very small % of the problem.  He has room for improvement however.

 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, SwampD said:

Amen. I was frustrated with him one minute into the game. He had the puck along the near boards skating toward the blue line. Montour heads in totally expecting Jack to hand the puck off to him, which was the right play. Montour would have been in space to either shoot or make a pass to Sheary(?) who was between the circles. Instead, he keeps it, fumbles it and takes a terrible shot from the point with his D man deep.

I really wonder if he knows how to cycle the puck.

I have been frustrated by the ability of all our forwards to use Montour. It's like they don't see what they have.

The situation you talk about happens multiple times, no matter which defenceman is joining the rush. It often seems like the only 4th man the forwards trust — surprisingly — is Bogo. When Dahlin and Risto do get the puck in those situations, they do tend to overhandle it, so maybe it's a lack of trust?

Semi-related, Housley constantly preaches five man attacks with support. Too often the support isn't getting open, or the puck isn't being moved to them quickly enough. Management is acquiring and developing players who should have the skills to play that way, but they aren't. Where is the disconnect?

Edited April 3, 2019 by dudacek