Should the next head coach of the Sabres be Mike Velucci?

[Stoner]

Jumping the gun juuuuust a little... He's the head coach of the AHL Charlotte Checkers and they have the best record in the AHL. If Velucci becomes a Calder Cup-winning coach, he'll join a list that includes Jon Cooper, Barry Trotz, Bruce Boudreau, Peter Laviolette, John Tortorella and others who went on to have success in the NHL. https://theahl.com/championship-teams

Is there a better indicator of coaching success in the NHL? How are former Cup winners and "hot" assistants working out for us?

Of course you could also go with Sheldon Keefe. Chris Taylor could fit the bill, but the Sabres won't have that much time to wait.

[Weave]

No more rookies please, and thank you.

[Stoner]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

No more rookies please, and thank you.

Fair enough. But Minny high school hockey does not equal AHL.

[Torpedo Forecheck]

I would hire Sheldon Keefe in a heartbeat. I"ve seen this guys work up close and he's a winner. Having said that, he is the heir apparent in Toronto.

[Brawndo]

21 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Jumping the gun juuuuust a little... He's the head coach of the AHL Charlotte Checkers and they have the best record in the AHL. If Velucci becomes a Calder Cup-winning coach, he'll join a list that includes Jon Cooper, Barry Trotz, Bruce Boudreau, Peter Laviolette, John Tortorella and others who went on to have success in the NHL. https://theahl.com/championship-teams

Is there a better indicator of coaching success in the NHL? How are former Cup winners and "hot" assistants working out for us?

Of course you could also go with Sheldon Keefe. Chris Taylor could fit the bill, but the Sabres won't have that much time to wait.

You should change the thread title to who you would like to see be the Sabres Next HC? 

Keefe or Taylor would work. 

 

[PerreaultForever]

So you think we have the talent and all it'll take is a new coach? Ok, good luck with that. 

[Stoner]

7 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

So you think we have the talent and all it'll take is a new coach? Ok, good luck with that. 

Of course not. But Phil isn't a good coach. Why improve the roster and then find out (again) Phil can't get anything out of it. It's kind of a two step process here.

14 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

You should change the thread title to who you would like to see be the Sabres Next HC? 

Keefe or Taylor would work. 

 

It's not a thread about who you want. It's thread about the most logical way of finding a good coach. (I admitted I jumped the gun by naming Velucci; let's just assume he goes on to win the Calder Cup.) I can't find a better predictor of NHL coaching success. And even at that it's a crap shoot. There are Jon Coopers and then there are John Van Boxmeers.

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

Of course not. But Phil isn't a good coach. Why improve the roster and then find out (again) Phil can't get anything out of it. It's kind of a two step process here.

I honestly don't know if he is a good coach or bad. On paper a lot of it looks ok, but each and every night these guys just under perform. We just don't have the talent. I don't believe there is a coach on the planet who can suddenly make half these guys able to put the puck in the net. If he had enough talent around to be able to sit guys who didn't perform we might have something but when a guy can get away with being terrible and then is in the lineup the next night cause there is no one else better what is a coach supposed to do?

[Tondas]

I think if the Amerks make a good run in the playoffs (or win it all), Chris Taylor is the next coach of the Sabres.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Coaches capable of getting the max out of their talent can be winners, even with less than outstanding talent.  We have less than outstanding talent but Housley doesn't appear to have a clue about how to max it out.

[klos1963]

I would love to see them go all out after Quenneville.

[kas23]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

I honestly don't know if he is a good coach or bad. On paper a lot of it looks ok, but each and every night these guys just under perform. We just don't have the talent. I don't believe there is a coach on the planet who can suddenly make half these guys able to put the puck in the net. If he had enough talent around to be able to sit guys who didn't perform we might have something but when a guy can get away with being terrible and then is in the lineup the next night cause there is no one else better what is a coach supposed to do?

I just don’t think these sentences follow each other. They’re saying the opposite thing. I personally think players can play above their talent level. We saw this with Teddy. Can they do this consistently, not likely, but they don’t all have to all at the same time. We can have a different hero each night. 

[Zamboni]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I honestly don't know if he is a good coach or bad. On paper a lot of it looks ok, but each and every night these guys just under perform. We just don't have the talent. I don't believe there is a coach on the planet who can suddenly make half these guys able to put the puck in the net. If he had enough talent around to be able to sit guys who didn't perform we might have something but when a guy can get away with being terrible and then is in the lineup the next night cause there is no one else better what is a coach supposed to do?

You are of the mindset that it just isn’t coaching and system. That if the talent was better, the coaching ability and system he implements would magically make this team a near top of the conference contender?

I’m of the mindset, this team has a lot of talent, but I’ll quickly point out the roster always needs improving. With good developing prospects in the pipeline (Sabres are rated top 10 or better in the league for quality of drafted prospects). With young developing players currently on the roster, and a top 10 center in the league along with a top 3 rookie defenseman in the league, we have most of the support around them to be a very good team. I stress again ... we still need to fill a few holes, but not as many as you seem to think considering you think the main reason is “talent”.

How I see it. Speaking strictly roster:

#1 upgrade... Skinner (if he doesn’t sign)

#2 upgrade... replacing Pominville with an established sucessful (points) vet who has much much better leadership qualities than Jason “deadfish” Pominville.

#3 upgrade... since I think we are stuck with Sobotka for another season because JB won’t be able to move him, we need to upgrade 3rd line LW. Or move Sobotka to LW and upgrade 3rd line center.

#4 upgrade... move Girgensons. He’s spent. We need a more effective LW on the 4th line. We need more scoring from that line.  Antiquated thinking is when fans think the 4th line in today’s NHL doesn’t need to contribute offensively. Durrrrr just possess the puck down low and run out the clock and help give the other three lines a breather durrrrr. No, the 4th line need to pot 20-30 goals between the three players.

#5 upgrade... more addition by subtraction. Don’t bring back Elie, Wilson, Tennyson or Hunwick. If they want to play in Roch. cool...Let a couple prospects battle it out for spots.

Nelson is an adequate bottom line fill in on D. You know what you’re getting. He’s simple and isn’t a defensive black hole when called upon when injuries or slumps strike.

And no one will want Okposos contract/term and health issues. We are stuck with him. But not all is lost with him. I think he could improve with better linemates and coaching. 

With (most likely) Risto, Dahlin, Montour, Scandella, Bogo, McCabe, and Pilut on the team next season, that’s a solid D core. It’s not at a ZOMG upgrade level. I would love to see Bogo moved, but at his cap hit, it’s highly unlikely.

Goaltending I feel is also not at a ZOMG upgrade needed level. 

Last year with Lehner and Johnson, it most certainly was!

The number one reason this team is looking bad, game after game after game is coaching and the lack of an attacking, great gap control system. And his flaccid or non existent in game/intermission adjustments. He just flat out suuuuucks.

[Curt]

I would prefer an experienced HC.  I’m thinking Quennville or Boudreau (I think he gets fired) ideally.  I’m a maybe on Vigneault.

If going with a first time NHL HC, I’d like Sheldon Keefe, DJ Smith, or Kris Knoblauch.

I also think Todd Nelson may be worth a look.  He is going to get a second shot at some point.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Curtisp5286

[Stoner]

33 minutes ago, Curtisp5286 said:

I would prefer an experienced HC.  I’m thinking Quennville or Boudreau (I think he gets fired) ideally.  I’m a maybe on Vigneault.

If going with a first time NHL HC, I’d like Sheldon Keefe, DJ Smith, or Kris Knoblauch.

I also think Todd Nelson may be worth a look.  He is going to get a second shot at some point.

Welcome aboard.

[Curt]

24 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Welcome aboard.

Thanks.  I’ve been lurking for quite some time, decided that I might as well add my 2 cents every now and then.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, kas23 said:

I just don’t think these sentences follow each other. They’re saying the opposite thing. I personally think players can play above their talent level. We saw this with Teddy. Can they do this consistently, not likely, but they don’t all have to all at the same time. We can have a different hero each night. 

What I meant was on paper they should be better, but they aren't, so maybe they simply aren't that good. 

[Derrico]

1 hour ago, Curtisp5286 said:

I would prefer an experienced HC.  I’m thinking Quennville or Boudreau (I think he gets fired) ideally.  I’m a maybe on Vigneault.

If going with a first time NHL HC, I’d like Sheldon Keefe, DJ Smith, or Kris Knoblauch.

I also think Todd Nelson may be worth a look.  He is going to get a second shot at some point.

I LOVED DJ Smith when he was with oshawa.  His in game adjustments were so impressive.  There’s a reason Babcock wanted him on his staff.  I don’t think he’s the guy the sabres need right now but he’s an interesting name to watch down the road.

[Curt]

42 minutes ago, Derrico said:

I LOVED DJ Smith when he was with oshawa.  His in game adjustments were so impressive.  There’s a reason Babcock wanted him on his staff.  I don’t think he’s the guy the sabres need right now but he’s an interesting name to watch down the road.

https://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/players-think-d-j-smith-destined-to-be-a-head-coach

Last season, Smith voted by NHL players as #1 NHL assistant coach who should be hired for next HC vacancy.

Why do you think he’s not the guy for Buffalo right now?

[In The Buff]

29 minutes ago, Curtisp5286 said:

https://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/players-think-d-j-smith-destined-to-be-a-head-coach

Last season, Smith voted by NHL players as #1 NHL assistant coach who should be hired for next HC vacancy.

Why do you think he’s not the guy for Buffalo right now?

1 thing i found interesting from that article was this quote: Other highlights for Toronto of the NHLPA poll, taken between training camp and Jan. 6, put Babcock fourth among coaches they’d like to play for at 7.5%, back of Joel Quenneville, Jon Cooper and Gerard Gallant.

Interesting to see so many players polled named Coach Q as 1 coach they'd like to play for. That says something imo. Same for Smith but at least with Coach Q you know he's respected. Even though i read a couple weeks back that Chicago fans aren't really missing him & have warmed up to Jeremy Colliton.

The more we lose like we are, it just seems theres more writing on the wall for PH to go. Idk if a coach like Quennville would even want to come into this situation, but a younger guy like Smith or Keefe who is hungry to break into the NHL might be willing to take a crack at it. Thanks for sharing the article!

[Kruppstahl]

12 hours ago, Tondas said:

I think if the Amerks make a good run in the playoffs (or win it all), Chris Taylor is the next coach of the Sabres.

I certainly hope not!  But this is the Sabres, so anything is possible.

 

[dejeanerret]

Over his last 10 seasons as HC, Alain Vigneault has finished with less than 45 wins and 96 points only twice.  Once was during the strike shortened season 2011 when his team finished first in their division, and the other was the last season he coached in 17-18 before the Rangers fired him.

In his first season as HC of Canucks, he finished w/ 45 wins, 105 points, and made it into the second round of the playoffs.

In his first season as HC of Rangers, he finished w/ 45 wins, 96 points, and made it to the Stanley Cup finals.

Since 2011-12, his teams made it to the playoffs six times over seven years.  The Sabres are 0 for 8. 

Vigneault's teams won a playoff series in six of the last 10 seasons he's coached, including three conference finals appearances and two Stanley Cups.  The Sabres haven't won a single series over that time.

The Rangers team that made it to the Stanley Cup only had 3 players who scored more than 50 points (Zuccarello had 59 to lead the team) and only two 20+ goal scorers.  So with less offensive talent than the Sabres have this year, they made it all the way to the finals.

Yet, we have been playing like the worst team in hockey.

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by dejeanerret

[North Buffalo]

1 hour ago, dejeanerret said:

Over his last 10 seasons as HC, Alain Vigneault has finished with less than 45 wins and 96 points only twice.  Once was during the strike shortened season 2011 when his team finished first in their division, and the other was the last season he coached in 17-18 before the Rangers fired him.

In his first season as HC of Canucks, he finished w/ 45 wins, 105 points, and made it into the second round of the playoffs.

In his first season as HC of Rangers, he finished w/ 45 wins, 96 points, and made it to the Stanley Cup finals.

Since 2011-12, his teams made it to the playoffs six times over seven years.  The Sabres are 0 for 8. 

Vigneault's teams won a playoff series in six of the last 10 seasons he's coached, including three conference finals appearances and two Stanley Cups.  The Sabres haven't won a single series over that time.

The Rangers team that made it to the Stanley Cup only had 3 players who scored more than 50 points (Zuccarello had 59 to lead the team) and only two 20+ goal scorers.  So with less offensive talent than the Sabres have this year, they made it all the way to the finals.

Yet, we have been playing like the worst team in hockey.

 

 

 

Ranger teams up that point were loaded... only failed when they started trading away Veterans.... to Tampa... Not sure Alan is a good development coach... yes he is good with vets... but

[PromoTheRobot]

17 hours ago, Tondas said:

I think if the Amerks make a good run in the playoffs (or win it all), Chris Taylor is the next coach of the Sabres.

Agreed. Taylor is the likely successor if Housley gets turned.

[chileanseabass]

I'd be all for Vellucci.  He's had success as a head coach for many years in the OHL and AHL, plus front office experience in the NHL.  He's orchestrated a complete turnaround here in Charlotte, with largely the same cast of characters, and those he's worked with that have been called up to Carolina have done well.  He has a knack for working with younger players.