How has this team completely reverted back to the worst team in the NHL again???

[matter2003]

2 minutes ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

Lots of issues obviously, these are some of my mine with the team.

1. The goaltending is not good enough. They have never when I've been watching (almost all games) shown the ability to lift the team. You must have that in the NHL. Being able to steal a game now and then and get out of a bad spell is essential. As a matter of fact, I would argue they aren't even solid in net. These guys are not reliable and consistent.

2. We aren't tough enough down low and in front of our net. We could seriously use some toughness, strength and defensive focus from especially the D-men. But, we don't have any big, tough centerman types who can help down low and in front. 

3. We lack scoring depth obviously. Some on here want to question the young guys playing and not producing. I'm disappointed mainly in the vets (old guys if you will) who have provided next to no production.

4. It is a complete indictment of this coaching staff that they have not been able to stop or even slow down the bleeding. There is no coming back from that IMO.

The goaltending is really weird...they will make unbelievable saves to keep the team in it and then let in the softest goal or goals where you are like "Serously??" If this was game to game, they could probably have at least 6 or 7 more wins where they would be able to steal a game here and there with their goaltending...unfortunately, its period to period and sometimes even half-period to half-period where they will look all-world for the first 10 minutes and then give up 3 garbage goals in quick succession in the last 10 minutes.  I mean how does that even happen??

Edited March 31, 2019 by matter2003

[Kruppstahl]

6 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Sadly, this may be true about Eichel...

TB and Calgary have 3 players with more points. Colorado, Toronto, Edmonton, Pittsburgh, Winnipeg, Boston, Florida, and Chicago all have 2 players with as many points as Eichel(OK Toews only has 76 points but still...they also have DeBrincat with 3 fewer points than Eichel at 74)

And several other teams have players with more points than Eichel as well.

I mean look at McDavid and Dreisatl with 100+ points a piece(and still out of the playoffs).

77 points is a good season, but its tied for 27th in the league. Some of the players above him are good but not great players, and the 2 players he is tied with are Pastrnak and Bergeron who have played 11 fewer games, so realistically he is 29th.

I think a lot of Sabres fans, Mike Schopp at the top of the list, think we are supposed to be on the fast track to multiple Cup wins, simply b/c Jack Eichel is on our team.

And then they wonder how it can be going so poorly as a result.  If one reconsiders their position/expectations with Eichel, things start to make more sense.

 

[matter2003]

1 minute ago, Kruppstahl said:

I think a lot of Sabres fans, Mike Schopp at the top of the list, think we are supposed to be on the fast track to multiple Cup wins, simply b/c Jack Eichel is on our team.

And then they wonder how it can be going so poorly as a result.  If one reconsiders their position/expectations with Eichel, things start to make more sense.

 

I think Eichel was touted as being a player close to McDavid's level where we expected maybe a 15-20 point difference between them during the year but realistically it's appearing as if it's more like a 40 point difference. And that isn't what he was being touted as coming out.

[lost in dc]

Not going after Barry Trotz

[Kruppstahl]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

I think Eichel was touted as being a player close to McDavid's level where we expected maybe a 15-20 point difference between them during the year but realistically it's appearing as if it's more like a 40 point difference. And that isn't what he was being touted as coming out.

Yes.  That is my point.  It's been 4 seasons and we have a good idea of what he can do.  He can do an awful lot, but he is not the generational talent promised prior to his drafting.  When Sabres fans come to accept that more widely, I think our problems will be better understood.

It's also why I have been saying that Dahlin is, potentially, the guy who should be the Captain and face of this franchise.  With time, he will emerge as a much better/more important player than even Eichel.

At least that is my prediction.

 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

The Sabres are 26th this season in GA.

The Sabres were 31st last season in GA

The Sabres were 26th in GA in 2016-17

The Sabres were 23rd in GA in 2015-16

30th in 2014-15 and 30th in 2013-14.

Any real question where the problem lies?

McCabe has been a full-time D with the Sabres since 2015-16 as has Bogosian

Ristolainen has been full-time since 2014-15.  This is Scandella's second full season.

These 4 guys are the core of our D group. Dahlin is a rookie and is the centerpiece of the core of the future.  However these 4 were all thought to be part of the solution look more like the problem.  It's interesting but this is the one area Jbot didn't really change year over year. Only Dahlin was really new.  Risto, Bogo, Scandy, McCabe, Baloo were all in our top 6 last year when we finished 31st and returned this season. Lehner wasn't the answer, but it's become pretty clear that he was only part of the problem.  

Sadly all 4 of these guys are under contract or control for next year.  I'm sorry but most of these guys have to be sent packing.  Getting Montour was the first step in overhauling this failed group.  The question is now do any of these 4 return next season?

 

[DarthEbriate]

34 minutes ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

Lots of issues obviously, these are some of my mine with the team.

2. We aren't tough enough down low and in front of our net. We could seriously use some toughness, strength and defensive focus from especially the D-men. But, we don't have any big, tough centerman types who can help down low and in front. 

Great point here. We have some defensemen who will protect the net (Bogo, McCabe, and Risto) but two of them are frequently injured and the third is often wandering and only appears to get up when playing Ovechkin and Crosby. And we're drafting smaller and smaller guys who aren't going to clear the front, either. JBot wants speed and movement on the blue line. And we're small down the middle, too (and play small defensively, even if a bigger guy, in Jack's case).

[DarthEbriate]

26 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

It's also why I have been saying that Dahlin is, potentially, the guy who should be the Captain and face of this franchise.  With time, he will emerge as a much better/more important player than even Eichel.

At least that is my prediction.

Will Eichel be our Taylor Hall? Hopefully when it's time to move him --- after yet another coaching/GM change, we get more than a second pairing d-man for him. Although by that time, maybe that'll be his value.

Ouch....

[Pimlach]

46 minutes ago, R_Dudley said:

I've stayed away from this mess because I was disappointed awhile back about using that word trust here before. Whats trust got to do with it i was told. I know I could have said I'm skeptical Jbot is the right guy but for me that is a trust issue. I am confident PH right now is not a good coach and maybe with years of experience if ever. I don't personally want to wait to see if that pans out. 

I realize from years here there are a lot of fan types. The stats guys, the detailed player profile guys, the hometown first guys, etc.. i think you can break that down into 2 main categories, those fans that are more head,  x & o's and those that are more heart first with all sort of combinations in between. Being one or the other and what motivates your opinion and feelings are what has made us all Sabres / hockey fans.    

This is a message board where peoples opinions driven by facts, feelings or combinations of both i thought were welcome but then we get these polarizing threads where one side decries, belittles or calls one person or groups loyalty or hockey smarts because new hockey beats old hockey or stats/facts should drive their posts/understanding of the game or team they follow.

I guess a teams pattern of losing and not being together as team can even creep unto a fan message board. I agree with those who posit losing begets losing and creates divide.  

It's made me realize one thing I am hockey fan first, and Sabres are my favorite team. When they don't pass the eye test and aren't playing good hockey w/o me needing to provide a thesis based on stats or styles to choose from i know what good hockey looks like to me.

While there are area's of promise with this team it does not pass the eye test. This is and has not been all that entertaining over the last several months. I have been getting that watching the playoff seeding teams jockey for a better seed in some tight races.             

Right on.  I backed you on your use of the word trust.   Trust has everything to do with building an organization that works from top to bottom.   Trust, hard work, and real accountability can overcome a lack of talent. 

I am pulling for JBOT to make some good moves this off season.   He has improved the Amerks and he has starting a pipeline for player development.  Those are the good things he did in Pittsburgh too.  He now needs to find better veteran leadership,  he needs to recognize what is going on that is impeding progress and then extract it from this team, he needs to make the moves that bring out the best of the core players.  Living  in St Louis I can tell you that ROR was not the problem.   What next? 

So far Bots has fielded two teams that performed worse than his predecessors. 

[PerreaultForever]

It is disappointing to see how they have reverted back to losing and not caring yet again. I'm watching the Rangers play the Flyers today. Flyers a little off (just got eliminated) but the Rangers are young, energetic, excited for each other, having a loose good time. Why isn't that us?????????????????????????????????? 

[Tondas]

3 hours ago, klos1963 said:

I've been thinking about this a lot. How does he handle the goaltending situation? Can he go with the same 2 goalies? No help on the farm right now. I think he has to make a move.

Isn't Hutton our sacrificial lamb for the Seattle expansion?

[matter2003]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Right on.  I backed you on your use of the word trust.   Trust has everything to do with building an organization that works from top to bottom.   Trust, hard work, and real accountability can overcome a lack of talent. 

I am pulling for JBOT to make some good moves this off season.   He has improved the Amerks and he has starting a pipeline for player development.  Those are the good things he did in Pittsburgh too.  He now needs to find better veteran leadership,  he needs to recognize what is going on that is impeding progress and then extract it from this team, he needs to make the moves that bring out the best of the core players.  Living  in St Louis I can tell you that ROR was not the problem.   What next? 

So far Bots has fielded two teams that performed worse than his predecessors. 

We need to find our Jake Guentzel and Conor Sheary type players in Rochester who can come up and make major contributions to the Sabres...so far we have not gotten much if anything from the farm with call ups...hopefully Nylander and Placed in can be key pieces next year...

[matter2003]

30 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

It is disappointing to see how they have reverted back to losing and not caring yet again. I'm watching the Rangers play the Flyers today. Flyers a little off (just got eliminated) but the Rangers are young, energetic, excited for each other, having a loose good time. Why isn't that us?????????????????????????????????? 

Maybe because the Sabres feel the pressure of expectations... Eichel...Dahlin...Skinner...a retooled roster that started out great...and when the play started going South they panicked and didnt know how to right the ship...and when you look to your coach for answers and he gices you none you lose heart...you think its hopeless...

This team seems like a team that simply doesn't believe their coach can help them right the ship or get them to where they want to go.

[calti]

2 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

Something to be considered as well is that the overall talent level of this team is rather low, and generally greatly overestimated by Sabres fans.  Fans always over-value their own talent.

Most of the stats during the win streak showed that the success would not be sustainable and the streak was largely a focus of luck.  We also got great goaltending during that time, and had a super hot goal scorer.

For at least 3 months now, our goaltending has been atrocious, not bad, but atrocious, and Skinner is now colder than a witch's t*t.

Time and again the organization has failed to put the best possible lineup on the ice for a given game, and then Housley has failed to have that lineup prepared and ready to go from the opening face-off.

We still have a lingering culture of failure.

We greatly overvalue Eichel in particular.  Almost every team in the league has an Eichel in their lineup, at least in terms of points. He is not a generational superstar talent.  He's just a very good hockey player.  

It's a combination of many things, but this organization is broken right now.

 

 

 

re Eichel--i agree....But look at Edm--who has a generational talent on their team.The rest of their team must be worse than the sabres

[matter2003]

7 minutes ago, calti said:

re Eichel--i agree....But look at Edm--who has a generational talent on their team.The rest of their team must be worse than the sabres

They might have 2 generational talents on their team...Draisaitl might be a 50 goal scorer this year...he has 47 this year and has been a 70+ point player for the last 3 years now...exploding to 100 this year...

Eichel has "exploded" from mid 50's and 60 point totals to near 80 points this year...

I mean can we even realistically say Eichel is a better player than say Brayden Point, Mikko Rantainen or Mitch Marner right now??

I guess in defense of Eichel, he is the focus of every team's game plan since they know if they can limit him they will win the game...other teams have more depth and better players on other lines so they can't necessarily focus on them, and in some cases they aren't even the best players on their team...which then brings up the fact that maybe the reason they are able to score so many points and be higher than Eichel in this category is because they are playing against the 2nd best line and 2nd best D pairings every night instead of the top lines...or maybe because they have so many good players that they can rack up points with far less work because those players are going to score more...

Edited March 31, 2019 by matter2003

[Gatorman0519]

The series of Sabres management teams has been inept.  That’s why this team stinks. Crappy trades, joke signings, and a decade of terrible drafts and development.  You have about 6-8 competent and skilled hockey players.  When this number gets past 15 we will start winning. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by Gatorman0519

[klos1963]

1 hour ago, Tondas said:

Isn't Hutton our sacrificial lamb for the Seattle expansion?

Why would Seattle take him? he'll be 35 when they start playing. At this point, I don't think we should be too concerned about who we lose in the draft.

[Tondas]

1 minute ago, klos1963 said:

Why would Seattle take him? he'll be 35 when they start playing. At this point, I don't think we should be too concerned about who we lose in the draft.

We have to expose a goalie and I thought it would be Hutton as opposed to Linus (if Linus is resigned).  Not concerned about losing Hutton, quite the contrary.

[klos1963]

22 minutes ago, Tondas said:

We have to expose a goalie and I thought it would be Hutton as opposed to Linus (if Linus is resigned).  Not concerned about losing Hutton, quite the contrary.

Got it.  Just don't see how we go into next season with the same 2 goalies. Neither showed too much this season.

[Zamboni]

26 minutes ago, Tondas said:

We have to expose a goalie and I thought it would be Hutton as opposed to Linus (if Linus is resigned).  Not concerned about losing Hutton, quite the contrary.

Hutton isn’t eligible for Seattle’s expansion draft. He’s only signed thru the 20-21 season. Unless we sign him to a one year deal for the 21-22 season.

 

 

Seattle must choose a minimum of 20 players under contract for the 2021-22 regular season and those with an aggregate Expansion Draft value that is between 60-100 percent of the prior season's upper limit for the salary cap. Seattle cannot buy out players chosen in the Expansion Draft earlier than the summer following its first season.

Current NHL teams can protect seven forwards, three defensemen and one goalie, or eight skaters (forwards/defensemen) and one goalie, under the following conditions.

* All players with no movement clauses at the time of the draft, and who decline to waive those clauses, must be protected and will be counted toward their team's applicable protection limits.

* All first- and second-year NHL players, and all unsigned draft choices, will be exempt from selection (and will not be counted toward protection limits.

In addition, all NHL teams must meet the following minimum requirements regarding players exposed for selection in the draft:

* One defenseman who is a) under contract in 2021-22 and b) played in at least 40 NHL games the prior season or played in at least 70 NHL games in the prior two seasons.

* Two forwards who are a) under contract in 2021-22 and b) played at least 40 NHL games the prior season or played in at least 70 NHL games in the prior two seasons.

* One goalie who is under contract in 2021-22 or will be a restricted free agent at the end of his current contract immediately prior to 2021-22. If a team elects to make a restricted free agent goalie available to meet this requirement, that goalie must have received his qualifying offer prior to the submission of the team's protected list.

* Players with potential career-ending injuries who have missed more than the previous 60 consecutive games (or who otherwise have been confirmed to have a career-threatening injury) may not be used to satisfy a team's player exposure requirements unless approval is received from the NHL. Such players also may be deemed exempt from selection.

•  

Edited March 31, 2019 by Zamboni

[Tondas]

2 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Hutton isn’t eligible for Seattle’s expansion draft. He’s only signed thru the 20-21 season.

* One goalie who is under contract in 2021-22 or will be a restricted free agent at the end of his current contract immediately prior to 2021-22. If a team elects to make a restricted free agent goalie available to meet this requirement, that goalie must have received his qualifying offer prior to the submission of the team's protected list.

•  

Great info Zamboni.  I stand corrected.

[Claude_Verret]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Will Eichel be our Taylor Hall? Hopefully when it's time to move him --- after yet another coaching/GM change, we get more than a second pairing d-man for him. Although by that time, maybe that'll be his value.

Ouch....

Not unless we get a McDavid in the interim he wont be.

Instead of focusing on what Eichel isn't (McDavid), we need to focus on what he actually is (a legit NHL elite, not generational, #1 center). Therefore he isnt a problem to be fixed going forward. 

Focus on what actually needs to be fixed ...which is almost everything else..goalie, most of the defense and most of the bottom 9 forwards.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Claude_Verret

[GASabresIUFAN]

54 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Hutton isn’t eligible for Seattle’s expansion draft. He’s only signed thru the 20-21 season. Unless we sign him to a one year deal for the 21-22 season.

 

 

Seattle must choose a minimum of 20 players under contract for the 2021-22 regular season and those with an aggregate Expansion Draft value that is between 60-100 percent of the prior season's upper limit for the salary cap. Seattle cannot buy out players chosen in the Expansion Draft earlier than the summer following its first season.

 

•  

By that time UPL will be our goalie and we can expose Ullmark to expansion.

[DarthEbriate]

43 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

By that time UPL will be our goalie and we can expose Ullmark to expansion.

Will we need to protect K^6 that year, or not until after that season?

[Zamboni]

47 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

By that time UPL will be our goalie and we can expose Ullmark to expansion.

I would bet Ullmark will be the starter (he’s still developing he’s not a finished product), and UPL will be backing him up once Hutton’s contract is up.