Has a team ever led the NHL in points in late November then finished in the Bottom 5?

[matter2003]

I'm guessing no because it would require an almost mind boggling collapse of epic proportions and an equally inept coaching job for a team to fall that far...

 

The Sabres have managed to accompliah this in under 4 months...this team is a joke...the coaching staff is a joke and JBotts better start cleaning house at the end of the year. Tired of watching this complete defensive zone ineptitude year after year...they Give the puck away so often in their own end you'd think they are being coached to do it...its a complete joke show.

 

This crap has got to end. Its not good enough and giving more time to a coach who clearly has no answers and has created far more problems than he has fixed is not good enough either.

 

Watching this team play is just utterly maddening...it makes your blood boil to see the stupid ways they lose games game after game.

 

The same dumb mistakes. Over and over again the entire year. How many games into a season is fair not to expect the same mental breakdown??  How many games Can you keep doing the same stupid play and givign the other team 5-7 prime scoring chances they should never have gotten?  Is this team the dumbest team in the NHL? I mean I don't know...I think if the coach points out the same mistake over and over again every game that I'm making,maybe after a few games Of actually learn from it? How many games is fair? 5 games? 10 games? 20 games? 50 games?  

 

Nope...not this team...its been 70+ games and the same idiotic Bantam level mistakes are being made...just give the puck away with reckless abandon in our own end like its their goal to set up the other team with point blank scoring chances.

 

I just can't take this anymore...then you have to listen to the coach talk about how you can't fault their effort after every game...well who cares?? The thing that matters is results. When you make it hard on yourself game and game by making absolute boneheaded rookie mistakes 5 times a game, you are giving yourself almost NO chance to win. How about figuring about a way to stop doing this?? It just shouldn't be that hard..what other team does this?? None that I see...its been going on 5 years here now...when can we expect this team to get its collective head out of their ***** and play smart hockey??

[Pimlach]

No ... the bottom 5 concept is irrelevant. For many years the league had only 6 teams, then 12, 14, 16 ...

 

we stink and we thought we where good back in November, let it go. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Pimlach

[Gatorman0519]

the record of this team for the better part of the past decade has been abysmal with no end in sight... I mistakenly projected about 4-5 years after Eichel's draft we would be contenders... we have yet to leave the basement...yikes

[Kruppstahl]

Only one team in the history of the NHL has been No. 1 overall at the end of November and then missed the playoffs.

That team is the 2018-2019 Buffalo Sabres.

 

[lost in dc]

Too high in November and too low now

[dudacek]

I’ve taken my shots at the goalies for their role in this collapse, but the other thing that has really slipped from the first half of the season is the play of the first line.

Reinhart has been mediocre, uncharacteristically forcing things that aren’t there; Eichel has reverted to the old “I’ll do it myself” Jack, not using his teammates properly; and Skinner has been a mess, costing possession and flailing in traffic like a fish out of water.

Skinner and Reinhart have 2 goals and 4 assists combined in their last 12. Eichel went 9 games in a row without an assist before adding one in each of his last 2 games. Skinner has scored once in 17 games. That’s Sheary-esque. And the minuses are piling up.  

How much do you blame Housley? How much is apathy spawned by another lost season? Are these players intrinsically flawed and incapable of being a core? 

[JJFIVEOH]

And not only are they going to miss the playoffs, they're going to miss the playoffs by A LOT! It would be one thing to miss the playoffs in the last week after leading the league, but to be realistically knocked out of the playoffs with two months to go is unacceptable. 

This entire coaching staff should be unemployed within the next couple of weeks. Alas, it will not happen and we'll go through this same tire fire next year. 

[matter2003]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

I’ve taken my shots at the goalies for their role in this collapse, but the other thing that has really slipped from the first half of the season is the play of the first line.

Reinhart has been mediocre, uncharacteristically forcing things that aren’t there; Eichel has reverted to the old “I’ll do it myself” Jack, not using his teammates properly; and Skinner has been a mess, costing possession and flailing in traffic like a fish out of water.

Skinner and Reinhart have 2 goals and 4 assists combined in their last 12. Eichel went 9 games in a row without an assist before adding one in each of his last 2 games. Skinner has scored once in 17 games. That’s Sheary-esque. And the minuses are piling up.  

How much do you blame Housley? How much is apathy spawned by another lost season? Are these players intrinsically flawed and incapable of being a core? 

I think the question becomes how closd to 100% of what a player has to offer is the coach able to get from him on a consistent basis, and how often is he able to get the entire team to give it on a nightly basis.

It does no good if the coach can get 5 players to Give him 100% of what they have to offer in a game if the other players are giving him 50%. It would be better if he could figure out a way to get the whole team to give him 75% than a few players giving max effort and the rest half effort.

And this is where Housley seems to fail. To be a successful head coach you need to be able to get at least 80% of what a player has to give each game consistently, with closer to 90-95% for long stretches. This is why some coaches will make the playoffs with the same roster another coach has near the bottom of the league.

Housley consistently gets less than what he should from his players ability, which is not the sign of a good coach. This team woukd be in the playoffs or within 2-3 points of the playoffs with at least 10 other coaches in the league in my opinion. Thats why Housley needs to go, he is never going to get the best out of what he has.

 

[calti]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

I think the question becomes how closd to 100% of what a player has to offer is the coach able to get from him on a consistent basis, and how often is he able to get the entire team to give it on a nightly basis.

It does no good if the coach can get 5 players to Give him 100% of what they have to offer in a game if the other players are giving him 50%. It would be better if he could figure out a way to get the whole team to give him 75% than a few players giving max effort and the rest half effort.

And this is where Housley seems to fail. To be a successful head coach you need to be able to get at least 80% of what a player has to give each game consistently, with closer to 90-95% for long stretches. This is why some coaches will make the playoffs with the same roster another coach has near the bottom of the league.

Housley consistently gets less than what he should from his players ability, which is not the sign of a good coach. This team woukd be in the playoffs or within 2-3 points of the playoffs with at least 10 other coaches in the league in my opinion. Thats why Housley needs to go, he is never going to get the best out of what he has.

 

I'd like to see Ted Nolan. Most underrated coach in nhl history.

[Brawndo]

[Kruppstahl]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’ve taken my shots at the goalies for their role in this collapse, but the other thing that has really slipped from the first half of the season is the play of the first line.

Reinhart has been mediocre, uncharacteristically forcing things that aren’t there; Eichel has reverted to the old “I’ll do it myself” Jack, not using his teammates properly; and Skinner has been a mess, costing possession and flailing in traffic like a fish out of water.

Skinner and Reinhart have 2 goals and 4 assists combined in their last 12. Eichel went 9 games in a row without an assist before adding one in each of his last 2 games. Skinner has scored once in 17 games. That’s Sheary-esque. And the minuses are piling up.  

How much do you blame Housley? How much is apathy spawned by another lost season? Are these players intrinsically flawed and incapable of being a core? 

IMO, yes.  They remind me very much of the core we broke up when we started this whole thing, back when Lindy Ruff was still the coach.  

But these factors you cite need not be mutually exclusive.  Not sure why Phil can't be a terrible coach, why the big line can't underachieve, why the goaltending can't be terrible, why the D core can't be horrible, and why the middle 6 forwards can't be f-ing atrocious.

This is a 50-something point scoring team over the course of an 82 game season.  Or at least it has been since the end of November.  That's pretty bad! Lots wrong here.

 

 

[Weave]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Are these players intrinsically flawed and incapable of being a core? 

I've inferred this thought in the past.  I'm genuinely concerned that it may be the case.

And if they are, I think fault is on the team.  We didn't provide the right environment for their development.  And I've posted my thoughts about that enough times that I won't bother to do it again.  IMO it is an inherent flaw in the path they chose.

[TrueBlueGED]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’ve taken my shots at the goalies for their role in this collapse, but the other thing that has really slipped from the first half of the season is the play of the first line.

Reinhart has been mediocre, uncharacteristically forcing things that aren’t there; Eichel has reverted to the old “I’ll do it myself” Jack, not using his teammates properly; and Skinner has been a mess, costing possession and flailing in traffic like a fish out of water.

Skinner and Reinhart have 2 goals and 4 assists combined in their last 12. Eichel went 9 games in a row without an assist before adding one in each of his last 2 games. Skinner has scored once in 17 games. That’s Sheary-esque. And the minuses are piling up.  

How much do you blame Housley? How much is apathy spawned by another lost season? Are these players intrinsically flawed and incapable of being a core? 

I really struggle with this being a thing, and I suspect I'll have to argue against it until the team starts wining. The team has three top-6 forwards and 1 defenseman who belongs on the top pair (who is 18), and somehow it's their fault? Not that we're missing 4 parts of a useful middle-6 or that the coach rolls out a horrible defenseman (defensively) as Drew Doughty? That's just a real tough sell to me. 

The team has 5 top-9 forwards (4 depending how you feel about Rodrigues), 1 top-9 center, and Vlad Sobotka being relied upon to contribute. And somehow it's the fault of our best players that they can't drag half a roster of corpses to respectability. The league as a whole has had an explosion of talent recently, which means it's harder than ever for the few to carry the many. It doesn't matter if our top line regularly wins its match-up if the other 3 lines regularly lose theirs. 

Auston Matthews is having a season nearly identical to Jack, and he even went through a Skinner-esque 12 game goal drought at one point. It didn't matter. Why? Because that team still had Tavares, Marner, Jounsson, Kadri, etc. to carry the offensive load. Our stars hit a slump and it's pure death because there's nobody else. 

[dudacek]

50 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

I really struggle with this being a thing, and I suspect I'll have to argue against it until the team starts wining. The team has three top-6 forwards and 1 defenseman who belongs on the top pair (who is 18), and somehow it's their fault? Not that we're missing 4 parts of a useful middle-6 or that the coach rolls out a horrible defenseman (defensively) as Drew Doughty? That's just a real tough sell to me. 

The team has 5 top-9 forwards (4 depending how you feel about Rodrigues), 1 top-9 center, and Vlad Sobotka being relied upon to contribute. And somehow it's the fault of our best players that they can't drag half a roster of corpses to respectability. The league as a whole has had an explosion of talent recently, which means it's harder than ever for the few to carry the many. It doesn't matter if our top line regularly wins its match-up if the other 3 lines regularly lose theirs. 

Auston Matthews is having a season nearly identical to Jack, and he even went through a Skinner-esque 12 game goal drought at one point. It didn't matter. Why? Because that team still had Tavares, Marner, Jounsson, Kadri, etc. to carry the offensive load. Our stars hit a slump and it's pure death because there's nobody else. 

Dammit, now I'm relying on Blue to restore my faith.

What has this season done to me? ?

[Zamboni]

4 hours ago, calti said:

I'd like to see Ted Nolan. Most underrated coach in nhl history.

Dude flat out sucks.

Are NHL teams clamoring for the great coaching prowess and intellect that is Ted “no system, just try hard” Nolan.

Where’s he coaching now? Even Poland didn’t want him back Bahahahahaha. 

[Pimlach]

13 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’ve taken my shots at the goalies for their role in this collapse, but the other thing that has really slipped from the first half of the season is the play of the first line.

Reinhart has been mediocre, uncharacteristically forcing things that aren’t there; Eichel has reverted to the old “I’ll do it myself” Jack, not using his teammates properly; and Skinner has been a mess, costing possession and flailing in traffic like a fish out of water.

Skinner and Reinhart have 2 goals and 4 assists combined in their last 12. Eichel went 9 games in a row without an assist before adding one in each of his last 2 games. Skinner has scored once in 17 games. That’s Sheary-esque. And the minuses are piling up.  

How much do you blame Housley? How much is apathy spawned by another lost season? Are these players intrinsically flawed and incapable of being a core? 

...  The play of Risto, Bogo, Hutton, Linus, Larsson, Girgs have all gone down since November. 

 

Add to to that we get little from Sobie, Okposo, Tage and Mittsie 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Pimlach

[GASabresIUFAN]

Whether or not we end up with a top 5 pick, does it really matter that we had a good run early in the season?  

It's pretty clear we need more talent and more depth.  We are a mediocre team with mediocre D play and goaltending and no depth at forward.  We are what the standings say we are.  

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[nucci]

17 hours ago, calti said:

I'd like to see Ted Nolan. Most underrated coach in nhl history.

Most overrated coach in NHL history

[Radar]

17 hours ago, calti said:

I'd like to see Ted Nolan. Most underrated coach in nhl history.

Please tell me you're kidding.......Please!

[ddaryl]

when the entire team fails to take a step forward in year 2... Or collapses the way this team has in the last 2/3 of the season then you look for the common denominator. Botterill is not firing himself so the only option is to fire Housley. I don't see the Pegula's firing Botterill. 

 

As of this junction the majority of blame falls on Housley. If the next coach fails in similar fashion then we look at the GM.. But this offseason we will be looking for a new coach or the majority of sabres fans will sit home next season

[LGR4GM]

Goaltending, terrible player usage, terrible defensive game. That's what sunk this team. 

[JJFIVEOH]

7 hours ago, nucci said:

Most overrated coach in NHL history

I had more fun watching his tank teams than this pile of garbage.

[dudacek]

16 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

I had more fun watching his tank teams than this pile of garbage.

Why? The tank teams were like watching paint dry.

The only bits of excitement involved seeing how long Michal Neuvirth and Jhonas Enroth Could withstand the inevitable 40-shot barrage. The team didn’t score, didn’t defend, didn’t hit, didn’t fight...if they allowed two in the first, the game was over, they went period after period without scoring chances.

You got to witness Cody Hodgson and Ville Leino earn $2 million per goal, Brian Flynn, Torrey Mitchell and Matt D’Agostini anchor your middle six, and the immortal Messy Balls defence in all its glory as you tried to fool yourself into thinking Mike Grigorenko, Phil Varone and Linus Omark might turn into NHL players.

How soon we forget. It was among the most god-awful NHL hockey ever played.

Edited March 25, 2019 by dudacek

[JJFIVEOH]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Why? The tank teams were like watching paint dry.

The only bits of excitement involved seeing how long Michal Neuvirth and Jhonas Enroth Could withstand the inevitable 40-shot barrage. The team didn’t score, didn’t defend, didn’t hit, didn’t fight...if they allowed two in the first, the game was over, they went period after period without scoring chances.

You got to witness Cody Hodgson and Ville Leino earn $2 million per goal, Brian Flynn, Torrey Mitchell and Matt D’Agostini anchor your middle six, and the immortal Messy Balls defence in all its glory as you tried to fool yourself into thinking Mike Grigorenko, Phil Varone and Linus Omark might turn into NHL players.

How soon we forget. It was among the most god-awful NHL hockey ever played.

Because they played like they actually gave a damn. It's painful to watch a team twice as talented as the tank teams with a win percentage almost equal to the teams that were built to fail. 

[Ross Rhea]

They have 71 pts with 8 games left. I honestly don't think they will get to 80 pts. Housley can't stay or the fans will mutiny.

Look standings 12/1/2018 

Eastern Conference

 

• Standings through December 1, 2018

	GP	W	L	OL	PTS	GF	GA	RPt%	ROW
Atlantic Division
Tampa Bay Lightning*	27	19	7	1	39	103	79	.730	18
Toronto Maple Leafs	27	19	8	0	38	98	70	.587	19
Buffalo Sabres	27	17	7	3	37	85	76	.405	14
Boston Bruins	26	14	8	4	32	71	64	.620	13
Montreal Canadiens	26	12	9	5	29	82	85	.513	10
Detroit Red Wings	26	12	11	3	27	76	85	.373	10
Ottawa Senators	27	12	12	3	27	98	109	.353	12
Florida Panthers	25	10	10	5	25	82	91	.460	9
Metropolitan Division
Washington Capitals	25	15	7	3	33	90	77	.559	14
Columbus Blue Jackets	26	15	9	2	32	90	83	.547	15
New York Islanders	25	13	9	3	29	76	72	.586	12
Carolina Hurricanes	25	12	9	4	28	66	69	.560	11
New York Rangers	27	13	12	2	28	77	84	.378	9
Pittsburgh Penguins	25	10	10	5	25	83	84	.546	10
Philadelphia Flyers	25	11	12	2	24	76	88	.467	10
New Jersey Devils	25	9	11	5	23	74	86	.375	9

Western Conference

 

• Standings through December 1, 2018

	GP	W	L	OL	PTS	GF	GA	RPt%	ROW
Central Division
Nashville Predators	27	18	8	1	37	88	66	.539	18
Colorado Avalanche	26	15	6	5	35	97	73	.447	15
Winnipeg Jets	25	15	8	2	32	87	74	.593	15
Dallas Stars	27	14	10	3	31	74	71	.513	14
Minnesota Wild	26	14	10	2	30	83	76	.480	14
Chicago Blackhawks	27	9	13	5	23	75	101	.433	9
St. Louis Blues	25	9	13	3	21	74	85	.540	9
Pacific Division
Calgary Flames*	26	15	9	2	32	88	74	.653	15
Anaheim Ducks	28	13	10	5	31	64	78	.403	11
San Jose Sharks	27	12	10	5	29	82	88	.593	12
Vegas Golden Knights	28	14	13	1	29	82	78	.553	13
Edmonton Oilers	26	13	11	2	28	70	79	.433	13
Arizona Coyotes	25	12	11	2	26	66	66	.461	11
Vancouver Canucks	29	11	15	3	25	82	102	.428	10
Los Angeles Kings	26	9	16	1	19	56	82	.365	8

 

Then look where they were on Christmas day 37 games in which is half of the games played where they are now 74.

Eastern Conference

 

• Standings through December 25, 2018

	GP	W	L	OL	PTS	GF	GA	RPt%	ROW
Atlantic Division
Tampa Bay Lightning*	37	28	7	2	58	154	106	.730	25
Toronto Maple Leafs	37	25	10	2	52	140	103	.587	25
Buffalo Sabres	37	21	11	5	47	111	105	.405	18
Boston Bruins	37	20	13	4	44	105	96	.620	19
Montreal Canadiens	37	19	13	5	43	115	117	.513	17
Florida Panthers	35	15	14	6	36	115	125	.460	14
Detroit Red Wings	38	15	17	6	36	109	126	.373	13
Ottawa Senators	37	15	18	4	34	118	144	.353	15
Metropolitan Division
Washington Capitals	35	22	10	3	47	129	103	.559	19
Columbus Blue Jackets	36	21	12	3	45	117	109	.547	21
Pittsburgh Penguins	36	18	12	6	42	119	110	.546	17
New York Islanders	35	18	13	4	40	101	98	.586	16
New York Rangers	35	15	14	6	36	102	115	.378	10
Carolina Hurricanes	35	15	15	5	35	90	103	.560	14
Philadelphia Flyers	35	15	16	4	34	104	125	.467	13
New Jersey Devils	35	12	16	7	31	102	125	.375	12

Western Conference

 

• Standings through December 25, 2018

	GP	W	L	OL	PTS	GF	GA	RPt%	ROW
Central Division
Winnipeg Jets	36	24	10	2	50	128	101	.593	23
Nashville Predators	37	22	13	2	46	111	95	.539	21
Colorado Avalanche	37	19	12	6	44	129	115	.447	19
Dallas Stars	37	18	16	3	39	99	102	.513	18
Minnesota Wild	35	17	15	3	37	103	99	.480	17
St. Louis Blues	34	14	16	4	32	96	114	.540	14
Chicago Blackhawks	39	13	20	6	32	111	145	.433	13
Pacific Division
Calgary Flames*	37	22	12	3	47	127	103	.653	22
San Jose Sharks	38	19	12	7	45	124	115	.593	19
Vegas Golden Knights	39	20	15	4	44	117	112	.553	19
Anaheim Ducks	38	19	14	5	43	95	109	.403	16
Edmonton Oilers	36	18	15	3	39	102	111	.433	17
Vancouver Canucks	39	17	18	4	38	117	125	.428	16
Arizona Coyotes	36	16	18	2	34	93	101	.461	14
Los Angeles Kings	37	14	20	3	31	86	112	.365	13

Edited March 25, 2019 by Ross Rhea