Fighting in sports...it's a thing?

[Ogre]

8 hours ago, sabills said:

IDK, I've managed to make it 32 years without punching someone in the face, or getting punched in the face for that matter, I don't think its "going to happen no matter what".

Sometimes people fight for sport. I myself have done it. I hope that doesn’t make me a bad person. 

You should really try punching someone in the face one day. You may like it.

[SwampD]

5 minutes ago, SDS said:

Lol.  What are you actually saying here? That they would have dropped out of hockey and fought in the streets? 

 I don’t think this particular article alluded to it, but guys talk about how mentally hard it is to go onto the ice knowing they HAVE to start a fight with another human being.  I think Andrew Peters talked about this. 

I always have this vision of Jason Bourne sitting in the corner asking what the other guy in the corner did before he shoots him.

 I know it’s fashionable to say tough guys just go out and hit other people on command, but in the absence of alcohol I don’t think that is very  common. 

I'm saying that none of them had to do it and the personality of someone who isn't good enough at actual hockey to keep playing and chooses to punch someone in the face in order to keep playing might have the same personality as someone who might abuse substances whether they had fought or not.

[Kruppstahl]

To those in this thread who seem so opposed to fighting in hockey: what are you doing at games when you attend in person and a fight breaks out?  Or what did you do in the past?  Look away in horror? 

99% of the building is on their feet and going insane, and that has been consistent in every game I've watched since the 1970s.   You do realize you are the oddballs, right?

Some of the absolute most memorable and dramatic moments I remember as a Sabres fan involve fights, rough stuff, violence, brawls.   RJ's absolute best calls, historically, involve fighting and huge line brawls.

Hockey is so much less dramatic and interesting without the tough stuff.  It used to bring teams together and forge tight bonds; it made huge enemies of certain players/teams and it's just not the same these days without it.  

Regular season hockey on most nights has the flavor of a pre-season exhibition where both teams have agreed to a non-verbal pact: I don't do anything to upset you, and you don't do anything to upset me.  Together we can stay healthy, not have to work too hard tonight, and earn our 7 figure pay checks

Do you guys like that?  Why on earth would you?

This is why players go nuts now when someone makes a huge, clean hit.  In the old days that was part of the game and no one would do anything about that, other than maybe try to respond with a hard hit of their own.

Now, players respond so violently to it because it is a crime in today's game.  The guy doing the huge hit is violating that non-verbal contract!  He's showing passion, playing really hard, and doing something that might make a player get injured, miss some game time, and God forbid, cease getting that 7 figure salary.

It's just a totally different game now, made much worse by the absence of the tough stuff.

And of course, as fighting ceases, the stick work and slashing increases. 

I think the people opposed to this stuff are the types to have never played hockey or maybe sports in general.

Hockey isn't chess.  Physicality has had a huge role in the game historically. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Weave]

Just now, Kruppstahl said:

To those in this thread who seem so opposed to fighting in hockey: what are you doing at games when you attend in person and a fight breaks out?  Or what did you do in the past?  Look away in horror? 

99% of the building is on their feet and going insane, and that has been consistent in every game I've watched since the 1970s.   You do realize you are the oddballs, right?

Some of the absolute most memorable and dramatic moments I remember as a Sabres fan involve fights, rough stuff, violence, brawls.   RJ's absolute best calls, historically, involve fighting and huge line brawls.

Hockey is so much less dramatic and interesting without the tough stuff.  It used to bring teams together and forge tight bonds; it made huge enemies of certain players/teams and it's just not the same these days without it.  

Regular season hockey on most nights has the flavor of a pre-season exhibition where both teams have agreed to a non-verbal pact: I don't do anything to upset you, and you don't do anything to upset me.  Together we can stay healthy, not have to work too hard tonight, and earn our 7 figure pay checks

Do you guys like that?  Why on earth would you?

This is why players go nuts now when someone makes a huge, clean hit.  In the old days that was part of the game and no one would do anything about that, other than maybe try to respond with a hard hit of their own.

Now, players respond so violently to it because it is a crime in today's game.  The guy doing the huge hit is violating that non-verbal contract!  He's showing passion, playing really hard, and doing something that might make a player get injured, miss some game time, and God forbid, cease getting that 7 figure salary.

It's just a totally different game now, made much worse by the absence of the tough stuff.

And of course, as fighting ceases, the stick work and slashing increases. 

I think the people opposed to this stuff are the types to have never played hockey or maybe sports in general.

Hockey isn't chess.  Physicality has had a huge role in the game historically. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fights can be incredibly entertaining.  And in the moment I watch, cheer, and am entertained.  Hell, on this site I used to post Sabres fights with won/loss polls after every game. 

But in the aftermath of CTE and concussions, I don't mind that they are pretty much phased out.  I hate knowing that Jeff Parker, Steve Montador, Derek Boogard, Wade Belak, Rick Rypien, and Mark Potvin have all killed themselves rather than suffer through the after effects of concussions.  And that list doesn't include the fighters that medicated themselves to death rather than suffer.  I don't feel guilty, per se.  But I feel remorse.  I can't watch those fighters fights on youtube.  I know that those fights led to their early deaths.

I still cheer in the moment, but I also have concern for their health afterward.  Kyle Okposo the most recent example.  I cheered at first, and then dread set in.  I don't need to have that to cheer for anymore.  The game is awesome enough to stand on its own without the fights.

[SDS]

4 minutes ago, Weave said:

The game is awesome enough to stand on its own without the fights.

 The skill level today is awesome. The game has never been better. 

[Torpedo Forecheck]

35 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I'm saying that none of them had to do it and the personality of someone who isn't good enough at actual hockey to keep playing and chooses to punch someone in the face in order to keep playing might have the same personality as someone who might abuse substances whether they had fought or not.

Just think about what you said for a second.

[SwampD]

4 minutes ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

Just think about what you said for a second.

There are countless stories of players who said they knew they had to fight if they wanted to stay in the NHL.

[Torpedo Forecheck]

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

There are countless stories of players who said they knew they had to fight if they wanted to stay in the NHL.

But they weren't good enough at playing hockey. Why should they allow fighting so these guys have a job? We have this college admissions thing going on now and its all about people who don't deserve something feeling entitled to it.

[dudacek]

I am a hypocrite because I can get caught up in the moment when two NHLers drop the gloves. Like Denis Lemieux, I feel shame and I try to be better. I have always enjoyed hockey just as much without fisticuffs. I do not need them to be entertained, or to salve my pride when my team is losing.

Boys enjoy watching a good fight on the playground until they grow up and one of them kills or maims another outside a bar. Men grow up and hockey should too.

Edited March 14, 2019 by dudacek

[SwampD]

5 minutes ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

But they weren't good enough at playing hockey. Why should they allow fighting so these guys have a job? We have this college admissions thing going on now and its all about people who don't deserve something feeling entitled to it.

But my point is that to just say, "see all these fighters who had a rough life and struggled with substance abuse after hockey..." is a cop out I think.

Who is to say that not making the NHL would then be the thing that led them to substance abuse post hockey?

[SDS]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

But my point is that to just say, "see all these fighters who had a rough life and struggled with substance abuse after hockey..." is a cop out I think.

Who is to say that not making the NHL would then be the thing that led them to substance abuse post hockey?

Occam’s Razor may apply here. 

[SwampD]

And am I a bad person if I find the whole college admission scandal thing kinda hilarious and don't really care about it?

[spndnchz]

If your son/daughter was next in line to get admitted but 50 students behind him/her bought their way in and your child lost out you may.

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, spndnchz said:

If your son/daughter was next in line to get admitted but 50 students behind him/her bought their way in and your child lost out you may.

Maybe they should have studied harder so they weren't on the bubble.?

[Ogre]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

There are countless stories of players who said they knew they had to fight if they wanted to stay in the NHL.

.....and that sucks.....BUT....that doesn’t mean that fighting in hockey sucks....sex with skill is good...sex with passion is good too....now combine the two....?

[steveoath]

2 hours ago, SDS said:

Have you read any post-career accounts of those who fought all those years for our benefit? It isn’t pretty. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/no-ones-cheering-me-on-ex-nhl-enforcer-battles-substance-abuse-concussion-symptoms-on-the-streets-of-surrey/amp

I’m perfectly fine leaving Thunderdome behind. These people don’t need to be punched in the face for me. Not that they actually do that anymore. As I have alluded to previously, it’s mostly jersey tugging and haymakers into the air. 

Totally get the players side. Especially the damage from night after night of it in a career. I was really trying to pitch my honest response to the initial post. I will say that as a total newcomer to hockey I have no rosetinted view of daysgoneby and have enjoyed this season immensely (even if results aren't going our way). ?

[sweetlou]

I do believe the game involving the goons of hockey is gone.  That does not mean that fighting should be gone.  Emotions run high and I feel the physical nature of the game is still needed.  The hitting to me has also diminished as players are too scared of suspensions now.  I love the skill and speed of the game but I also enjoy the hitting.  Growing up hockey was my favorite sport because it did involve so much skill.  It's a good mix of the back and forth of basketball with the physicality of football.  Young kids growing up playing the game know this about the sport before they start to play.  If they just want to skate around and not get hit, go be figure skaters!!!!

[sabills]

15 hours ago, Ogre said:

Sometimes people fight for sport. I myself have done it. I hope that doesn’t make me a bad person. 

You should really try punching someone in the face one day. You may like it.

Sure, if you're into boxing or something. I just disagree with the idea that its INEVITABLE that high tempers HAVE to lead to violence.

And naw, I'm good.

[shrader]

16 hours ago, Ogre said:

.....and that sucks.....BUT....that doesn’t mean that fighting in hockey sucks....sex with skill is good...sex with passion is good too....now combine the two....?

Yeah, but hockey's been married for a while now, so fights are pretty rare.

[apuszczalowski]

18 hours ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

But they weren't good enough at playing hockey. Why should they allow fighting so these guys have a job? We have this college admissions thing going on now and its all about people who don't deserve something feeling entitled to it.

This is similar to an argument I saw yesterday regarding baseball changing the rules next year to require a pitcher stay in for a minimum of 3 batters or Tulsa the end of an inning. One of the arguments against it is that 'left specialists' might lose their jobs because teams wont hold a spot anymore for a specialty guy they can throw in for 1 batter. Teams arent keeping a roster spot open for the guys like Peter's or Scott who's only skills were basically go get into a fight to try and rile up the crowd or team.

17 hours ago, Ogre said:

.....and that sucks.....BUT....that doesn’t mean that fighting in hockey sucks....sex with skill is good...sex with passion is good too....now combine the two....?

But is sex without passion or skill really bad?

[Ogre]

3 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

This is similar to an argument I saw yesterday regarding baseball changing the rules next year to require a pitcher stay in for a minimum of 3 batters or Tulsa the end of an inning. One of the arguments against it is that 'left specialists' might lose their jobs because teams wont hold a spot anymore for a specialty guy they can throw in for 1 batter. Teams arent keeping a roster spot open for the guys like Peter's or Scott who's only skills were basically go get into a fight to try and rile up the crowd or team.

But is sex without passion or skill really bad?

 Good point.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

6 hours ago, shrader said:

Yeah, but hockey's been married for a while now, so fights are pretty rare.

But you should have more fights....the make-up sex can be great too!!!

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

6 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

This is similar to an argument I saw yesterday regarding baseball changing the rules next year to require a pitcher stay in for a minimum of 3 batters or Tulsa the end of an inning. One of the arguments against it is that 'left specialists' might lose their jobs because teams wont hold a spot anymore for a specialty guy they can throw in for 1 batter. Teams arent keeping a roster spot open for the guys like Peter's or Scott who's only skills were basically go get into a fight to try and rile up the crowd or team.

But is sex without passion or skill really bad?

Can we stop this talk....I starting to see this as the future, FFto the 3min mark. LOL

 

[Ogre]

12 hours ago, sabills said:

Sure, if you're into boxing or something. I just disagree with the idea that its INEVITABLE that high tempers HAVE to lead to violence.

And naw, I'm good.

  I agree with you disagreeing. I’m saying that it shouldn’t be disallowed. I don’t MMA stuff going on...I’m thinking more along this line...

[bunomatic]

Read an article about the Hammer of Philly lore and he said he absolutely hated it. He fought to stay in the game. He also said he'd never once fought off the ice. Not a single street fight. 

Personally I like it when a fight keeps the cheap shot artists honest but I also acknowledge its going away and probably for the better. I just hope the officials and the league disciplinarian can properly police the cheap shots.