Casey Nelson tells press he was behind play and didn’t see the head hit

[SDS]

If Nelson has been interviewed and he has subsequently spoken on the topic, please let me know. This topic assumes he hasn't publicly answered questions on the play.

I brought this up in another topic and I went back to gather more evidence. What exactly did Casey Nelson see on the ice?

Now, I know it is MUCH more fun to question the testicle size of people from the comfort of a sofa, but in the spirit of ask questions first and shoot later, why did Nelson react the way he did?

Going back to the video:

 

You can see Nelson peel off to the boards and go out of the frame. I'm not sure if he faces forward the entire time or if he circles and turns his back to the play. In the screen shot I have attached, you can see his left leg in the bottom left of the screen as he turns towards the boards.

In the other screen grab, Jack has already been hit and Nelson is emerging from behind a second Avs player.

So, what did Nelson see? Is it not plausible that:

1. He was to Eichel's left which was the clean aide of the hit. It is Z's left arm, on the opposite side of Nelson, that makes contact and face washes Eichel as he falls. Could he even see what happened?

2. He was screened by the 2nd Avs player?

3. His eyes weren't looking at Eichel at that exact moment in time? He is on the ice. Players scan the ice all the time. He could have glanced at the ref seeing if he was going to call the offside. He may have turned. He may have been looking down at the puck. Wherever

What we DO know, is that he did not have a view from his sofa from a 200/300 level camera and did not see 10 replays from multiple angles. 

Is it possible that he heard the hit, saw Eichel on the ground without his helmet, but didn't know what exactly happen because he just didn't see it? If so, is he expected to just start throwing punches?

[Mustache of God]

It doesn't matter what he saw in the moment. If he hears a whistle, followed by a crunch and then looks over and sees his captain laying on the ice without a helmet that's all he needs to know.

[Eleven]

What if he hears a whistle and looks over and sees that three of his teammates already are in the scrum and that it is being addressed?

[Cityo'Rasmii]

Several of which are outsized?

[SDS]

Just now, Eleven said:

What if he hears a whistle and looks over and sees that three of his teammates already are in the scrum and that it is being addressed?

I'm not sure what you are saying, since that didn't happen. Is this just an alternative hypothetical?

[Eleven]

5 minutes ago, SDS said:

I'm not sure what you are saying, since that didn't happen. Is this just an alternative hypothetical?

Yeah. I just think way too big a deal is being made of this situation.

[dudacek]

I am surprised that people care enough about Casey Nelson’s level of toughness to even be discussing this.

Go back to yelling at Phil Housley or checking out draft prospects or whatever else is helping you get through your latest bout of Sabre disappointment.

“I’m angry, so the Sabres should beat someone up” is so tired and so tiring.

[SDS]

 

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I am surprised that people care enough about Casey Nelson’s level of toughness to even be discussing this.

Go back to yelling at Phil Housley or checking out draft prospects or whatever else is helping you get through your latest bout of Sabre disappointment.

“I’m angry, so the Sabres should beat someone up” is so tired and so tiring.

I wouldn't have thought so either. I'm just giving the angry fans something to possibly think about, while they question everyone's manhood.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

Just now, SDS said:

 

I wouldn't have thought so either. I'm just giving the angry fans something to possibly think about, while they question everyone's manhood.

This whole season is questioning their manhood....not just one incident.

[dudacek]

12 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

This whole season is questioning their manhood....not just one incident.

Yes, this season is about their manhood. They aren't good because they don't fight and their coach doesn't get mad behind the bench.

It has nothing to with their talent level.

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Yes, this season is about their manhood. They aren't good because they don't fight and their coach doesn't get mad behind the bench.

It has nothing to with their talent level.

Talent level and accountability. 

[bob_sauve28]

18 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Yes, this season is about their manhood. They aren't good because they don't fight and their coach doesn't get mad behind the bench.

It has nothing to with their talent level.

Some fans would be happy if they just fought all the time, did cheap shots all the time and just lost. At least we would be "tough." 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

23 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Yes, this season is about their manhood. They aren't good because they don't fight and their coach doesn't get mad behind the bench.

It has nothing to with their talent level.

or their heart.

just for the record....in another post I said that the Z hit didn't deserve an "old-time" response. I feel that if Jack had laid that hit on Z the people on here would be applauding Jack and not expecting an answer back from the Avs.

 

[Brawndo]

Phil weighs in 

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

53 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Yes, this season is about their manhood. They aren't good because they don't fight and their coach doesn't get mad behind the bench.

It has nothing to with their talent level.

Hello, Angry Duda.

Nice to meet you, but please stop giving the world the impression that we Canadians are atol nasty, eh?

I completely agree with what you are saying.

[Mustache of God]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

What if he hears a whistle and looks over and sees that three of his teammates already are in the scrum and that it is being addressed?

Nelson was the first man in, and by in i mean he just glided in all unsure of himself and did nothing. That's inexcusable. Looks like Phil is doing something right by scratching him for that. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

I guess we can add him to the departure list this summer.

[Jacque Richard]

3 minutes ago, Mustache of God said:

Nelson was the first man in, and by in i mean he just glided in all unsure of himself and did nothing. That's inexcusable. Looks like Phil is doing something right by scratching him for that. 

Don’t kid yourself Phil would have done the same thing as Nelson 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, SDS said:

If Nelson has been interviewed and he has subsequently spoken on the topic, please let me know. This topic assumes he hasn't publicly answered questions on the play.

I brought this up in another topic and I went back to gather more evidence. What exactly did Casey Nelson see on the ice?

Now, I know it is MUCH more fun to question the testicle size of people from the comfort of a sofa, but in the spirit of ask questions first and shoot later, why did Nelson react the way he did?

Going back to the video:

 

You can see Nelson peel off to the boards and go out of the frame. I'm not sure if he faces forward the entire time or if he circles and turns his back to the play. In the screen shot I have attached, you can see his left leg in the bottom left of the screen as he turns towards the boards.

In the other screen grab, Jack has already been hit and Nelson is emerging from behind a second Avs player.

So, what did Nelson see? Is it not plausible that:

1. He was to Eichel's left which was the clean aide of the hit. It is Z's left arm, on the opposite side of Nelson, that makes contact and face washes Eichel as he falls. Could he even see what happened?

2. He was screened by the 2nd Avs player?

3. His eyes weren't looking at Eichel at that exact moment in time? He is on the ice. Players scan the ice all the time. He could have glanced at the ref seeing if he was going to call the offside. He may have turned. He may have been looking down at the puck. Wherever

What we DO know, is that he did not have a view from his sofa from a 200/300 level camera and did not see 10 replays from multiple angles. 

Is it possible that he heard the hit, saw Eichel on the ground without his helmet, but didn't know what exactly happen because he just didn't see it? If so, is he expected to just start throwing punches?

 

What did he see?  Minimum he saw Eichel crumpled on the ice, Zadarov over top, Echiel’s helmet rolling on the ice.   What did he hear? A whistle, a prolonged body check into the boards, the crowd reaction. 

Maximim - he saw everything.   He was the closest and he got there first so it is likely he saw a lot   

I fail to understand why is is even important.  He was the first in so he could see the and hear the situation quite well.   

I prefer that he dropped them at went at it with Zadarov, who is big but not a great fighter.  He didn’t do anything.  Scandy pulled Zadorov down, Reinhart jumped in and threw punches.  Skinner scrumed with Ratanen who tried to stop him.   Nelson did nothing.  It’s all on the video.  

Recall when Drury got hit inthe Ottawa game.  A skinny rookie named Drew Stanford took on a known nasty NHL Pugilist. Did Stafford see the hit or did he just see Drury down and he put it together?   In any case he addressed it and he did not wait for help.  No one cared if Stanford won that fight or not, he addressed it immediately.  A TEAM does that.  Ruff then answered with his meanest players, eye for an eye.  

So who cares what Nelson saw.   We care what he did, or in this case did not do.   There is nothing else to consider.  

 

[Tondas]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Phil weighs in 

 

I disagree with PH on this.  I don't disagree that he should have had a conversation with Casey on his lack of response (although Casey has played hockey all his life and should know this  by now).  What I disagree with is sitting him for the next game.  I'd keep him in the lineup and want to see that he learned from the conversation.  My guess, if Casey wants to stay with the Sabres, is that he would be the first person in any scrum when he is on the ice and would take anyone to task for taking the slightest liberty with any of his teammates.  If he didn't learn, then I'd sit him for the rest of the season and let JBOT do the rest in the summer.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Tondas

[woods-racer]

For those that thing Phil was a complete ballerina.

http://dropyourgloves.com/Fights/FightCard.aspx?Player=1943

 

When pressed he dropped them. Not often, but against some very good fighters.

[nfreeman]

I will take a contra position.

It's pretty likely IMHO that the coaches have access to replays/camera angles that show Nelson having a good view of the incident.

It's also 100% reasonable IMHO for Howie to expect Eichel's teammates, especially a rookie defenseman, to go in guns blazing if Eichel is hit hard after the whistle. 

This isn't about manhood, or blaming this season's collapse on a lack of fighting, or mistaking toughness for talent.  It's about protecting the franchise, giving a crap about your team and your teammates and doing what a real hockey team does -- and NOT avoiding difficult situations because you are playing out the string.

If there is a hit like that on Crosby, Ovechkin, Pastrnak, Matthews, etc -- would their teammates not respond?

[SDS]

17 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I will take a contra position.

It's pretty likely IMHO that the coaches have access to replays/camera angles that show Nelson having a good view of the incident.

It's also 100% reasonable IMHO for Howie to expect Eichel's teammates, especially a rookie defenseman, to go in guns blazing if Eichel is hit hard after the whistle. 

This isn't about manhood, or blaming this season's collapse on a lack of fighting, or mistaking toughness for talent.  It's about protecting the franchise, giving a crap about your team and your teammates and doing what a real hockey team does -- and NOT avoiding difficult situations because you are playing out the string.

If there is a hit like that on Crosby, Ovechkin, Pastrnak, Matthews, etc -- would their teammates not respond?

Curious if you looked at attachment two I included in the original post. It literally shows both Z and another skater in front of Nelson (and it would have been worse a fraction of a second earlier, since Nelson was even more behind both of them.

It's odd that there is actual tangible evidence he was screened and you would prefer to think there is a mystery angle that shows something contrary. I do appreciate you at least addressing my original point though.

[Eleven]

20 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I will take a contra position.

It's pretty likely IMHO that the coaches have access to replays/camera angles that show Nelson having a good view of the incident.

It's also 100% reasonable IMHO for Howie to expect Eichel's teammates, especially a rookie defenseman, to go in guns blazing if Eichel is hit hard after the whistle. 

This isn't about manhood, or blaming this season's collapse on a lack of fighting, or mistaking toughness for talent.  It's about protecting the franchise, giving a crap about your team and your teammates and doing what a real hockey team does -- and NOT avoiding difficult situations because you are playing out the string.

If there is a hit like that on Crosby, Ovechkin, Pastrnak, Matthews, etc -- would their teammates not respond?

If there's a hit like that on Ovechkin, his teammates wouldn't have time to respond.  The other guy would already be dead.

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, SDS said:

Is it possible that he heard the hit, saw Eichel on the ground without his helmet, but didn't know what exactly happen because he just didn't see it? If so, is he expected to just start throwing punches?

Yes.

Like this.

 

I specifically chose this example because the response is from smaller guys and the late hit was on Lucic. This is a few years back but they are the same now, and the fans love it and they get respect like it or not.

I am pleased Nelson is benched. It is the absolute minimum acceptable move to send the message that that sort of response is no longer acceptable on the team. It's going to take time, but the idea has to be established and riveted into place that teams simply cannot take liberties on our stars and get away with it. It's a start. Personally, I'd waive him.