Hockey players from the 70's vs today

[R_Dudley]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't. I think the college kids beat the piss out of the 1975 all star team. They would be bigger, faster, and stronger. Also they would know the rules had changed, after about 5 minutes... the hits you could level on a guy who can't skate half as well as you, ooof. 

Let's play this game in reverse. You take the 1975 all star team, bring them to 2019, give them all new equipment. Give them 2 weeks to train with it. Then what happens? Seems the only reason anyone can come up with for the 1975 team winning is that they would literally not play hockey but just fight the entire game. 

Well having watched some of those games that's sometimes what it did look like...

Knowing that I agree today's players would have a distinct advantage and should win 9 out of 10 times. 

However lets not forget the occasional miracle on ice that happens every now and then. 

So how about another twist would today's  college players beat the Soviet Red army team that was doing all the latest rage training in that same 1975 era?   

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

I can't point to any video evidence *right now*, but I'll bet that the college kids can't fight like those guys from the 70s could.  I think one look at Korab's mustache and they'd skate away crying.  I can think of a certain built-for-speed team that lost 12-6 to the 1976 Sabres, for example, and I will be watching video of that game later.

So, to be clear, I'm not talking about checking.  I'm talking about crosschecks with heavy wooden sticks (and the college kids have only composite with which to retaliate) and straight-up fighting.  And remember, one of the reasons it was so tough to get moving very fast in 1975 is because the puck was frozen all the time.

So then this isn't about hockey this is just about who would win a fight? 

As for the rest, you can't cross check someone who you can't catch and pads these days are way better than 1975. 

2 minutes ago, R_Dudley said:

Well having watched some of those games that's sometimes what it did look like...

Knowing that I agree today's players would have a distinct advantage and should win 9 out of 10 times. 

However lets not forget the occasional miracle on ice that happens every now and then. 

So how about another twist would today's  college players beat the Soviet Red army team that was doing all the latest rage training in that same 1975 era?   

Are we talking any college team or a team of say College All Stars? 

[dudacek]

14 minutes ago, Eleven said:

In this situation, which necessarily takes place on a 1975 rink and with 1975 rules, because it's 1975,  I think the NHL all star team beats the living daylights out of every player except for the backup goaltender and goes on to win.

Is this not essentially what happened when Canada’s beer-drinking Insurance salesmen beat the highly-trained, highly-fit medically-enhanced hockey-schooled Russians in the ‘72 Summit Series?

[SDS]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

You won't like this but... if my math was right that BU team is about 185ish lbs on average and that Sabres team was 187... granted... I still think the BU team would be stronger physically. 

I would consider that the same size, like I mentioned, but since they skate faster and would hit with more force.

[Neo]

2 hours ago, SDS said:

In response to the old-timers here continually harkening back to yesteryear, longing for the stars of their youth to reincarnate and step onto the ice again to show these bums how hockey is played - I asserted in last night's game thread that the modern hockey player today would crush those players. D1 college, World Junior teams, etc... would annihilate these guys. 

If you need any visual proof, please watch the first minute of this Sabres/Flyers game from 1975. Three minutes is you have the time. 

They were awesome back in the day, but compared to today's players - they are COMICALLY bad.

 

 

I was there!  “Bernie, Bernie, BERNIE!” as he skated the Conn Smyth around our Aud.  Slept overnight for SRO tickets, forfeiting my 8th grade perfect attendance certificate.

 

The Sioux 7, Sabres 2.

[Eleven]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

So then this isn't about hockey this is just about who would win a fight? 

As for the rest, you can't cross check someone who you can't catch and pads these days are way better than 1975. 

Standing in front of the net is more a part of the game today than in 1975, and freezing the puck along the boards certainly happened more in 1975, and that's where your cross-checking is going to take place.

It isn't just about who would win the fight; the 1975 team would beat the daylights out of the NCAA team, as I've said, and then go on to win the game.

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Is this not essentially what happened when Canada’s beer-drinking Insurance salesmen beat the highly-trained, highly-fit medically-enhanced hockey-schooled Russians in the ‘72 Summit Series?

Yep

[SDS]

https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/nhl-players-keep-getting-faster-stronger-and-more-skilled-how-far-can-hockey-evolution-go

Players of the 70s are not stronger than today. Casey Mittelstadt notwithstanding.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Is this not essentially what happened when Canada’s beer-drinking Insurance salesmen beat the highly-trained, highly-fit medically-enhanced hockey-schooled Russians in the ‘72 Summit Series?

No. Even then you didn't have the training and nutrition they have today. We know infinitely more about body differences and how to build muscle accordingly. Add into that all the knowledge and skill with skating. 

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/nhl-players-keep-getting-faster-stronger-and-more-skilled-how-far-can-hockey-evolution-go

Players of the 70s are not stronger than today. Casey Mittelstadt notwithstanding.

I'm not claiming otherwise.  But they sure were tougher.

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Even then you didn't have the training and nutrition they have today.

The Soviets might have had some "nutrition" that is now illegal today.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Eleven

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

Standing in front of the net is more a part of the game today than in 1975, and freezing the puck along the boards certainly happened more in 1975, and that's where your cross-checking is going to take place.

It isn't just about who would win the fight; the 1975 team would beat the daylights out of the NCAA team, as I've said, and then go on to win the game.

Yep

No they wouldn't. You think those college kids would just take it. They would turn around and start throwing and here is my issue with the cross checking and board battle debates, that still relies on strength. These kids have gotten cross checked and hit and pushed and they stay standing because they have better lower body strength and balance. Also why stand in front of the net? The goalies back then are trash, just circle and shoot. 

2 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I'm not claiming otherwise.  But they sure were tougher.

The Soviets might have had some "nutrition" that is now illegal today.

No they weren't. These college kids have to go to class, social life, weight lift, film study, practice, and then play a game. "Hey college boy, the rules are basically you can't break your stick over someone's head, so cross check and hack to your hearts content... aka prison rules".... college kid "oooo this is going to be fun." 

[LGR4GM]

And again you aren't accounting for the open ice hits that would happen constantly. 1975 guy comes up the ice and the 2019 defender with lateral agility just lays his slow ass out. 

[SDS]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

No they wouldn't. You think those college kids would just take it. They would turn around and start throwing and here is my issue with the cross checking and board battle debates, that still relies on strength. These kids have gotten cross checked and hit and pushed and they stay standing because they have better lower body strength and balance. Also why stand in front of the net? The goalies back then are trash, just circle and shoot. 

I know right? Did a toe drag even exist? 

What you would essentially have is a guy who can barely skate backwards with any fluidity, lunge at a guy flying at him that toe drags around him and does some crazy trick goal because 50% of the net is wide open.

[R_Dudley]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So then this isn't about hockey this is just about who would win a fight? 

As for the rest, you can't cross check someone who you can't catch and pads these days are way better than 1975. 

Are we talking any college team or a team of say College All Stars? 

They were the best their country had to offer so only seems fair should be all stars.

[klos1963]

20 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't. I think the college kids beat the piss out of the 1975 all star team. They would be bigger, faster, and stronger. Also they would know the rules had changed, after about 5 minutes... the hits you could level on a guy who can't skate half as well as you, ooof. 

Let's play this game in reverse. You take the 1975 all star team, bring them to 2019, give them all new equipment. Give them 2 weeks to train with it. Then what happens? Seems the only reason anyone can come up with for the 1975 team winning is that they would literally not play hockey but just fight the entire game. 

Sabres 1975 team would destroy a college team.  I don't think many teams would do well against the Habs or Islanders dynasty's. Goalie equipment could be a factor though.

[dudacek]

Just now, SDS said:

What you would essentially have is a guy who can barely skate backwards with any fluidity, lunge at a guy flying at him that toe drags around him and does some crazy trick goal because 50% of the net is wide open.

Damn, I miss those days.

Where are the Harold Snepsts of the blueline when we need them (on the other teams)?

[Neo]

 

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, SDS said:

I know right? Did a toe drag even exist? 

What you would essentially have is a guy who can barely skate backwards with any fluidity, lunge at a guy flying at him that toe drags around him and does some crazy trick goal because 50% of the net is wide open.

It would look like 3v3 ot without the other team mattering. 

[dudacek]

How would the modern team adjust to the illegal two-line pass? No touch-up offsides? Freezing the puck along the boards? No instigator? 1975 let ‘em play reffing?

This isn’t the slam-dunk SDS and LGR are portraying it as. There is no doubt the modern college teams are better-trained athletes, but they will be thrown into a different game.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, R_Dudley said:

They were the best their country had to offer so only seems fair should be all stars.

So a 2019 College All Star team versus the 1972  or 1976 Soviet Gold Medal team... I take the college kids. Goaltending and skating are just so vastly improved. 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

How would the modern team adjust to the illegal two-line pass? No touch-up offsides? Freezing the puck along the boards? No instigator? 1975 let ‘em play reffing?

This isn’t the slam-dunk SDS and LGR are portraying it as. There is no doubt the modern college teams are better-trained athletes, but they will be thrown into a different game.

That's easy... you don't pass you just skate it in. Imagine the breakouts from todays game. Puck comes around the boards and is flicked off the wall back towards the middle of the ice where an already moving player takes it and just goes end to end. You don't have to worry about the forecheck because they won't get there in time. The puck will already be gone. 

Again, college kids are not going to roll over because some guy starts swinging. They are going to get pissed and swing back. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by LGR4GM

[klos1963]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So a 2019 College All Star team versus the 1972  or 1976 Soviet Gold Medal team... I take the college kids. Goaltending and skating are just so vastly improved. 

The Russians would win , unless they pulled Tretiak after the 1st period again.

Edited March 8, 2019 by klos1963

[LGR4GM]

What if you could create an all star team from any player in the NHL by 1989. They have to play an all star team made up of 2019 all stars using 2019 equipment. Who wins? 

 

[drnkirishone]

I kinda agree that the modern team would destroy any team from 75. You can overcome speed with team defense. But the game in 75 was light on team defense. It would be near impossible to overcome speed/skill coming from a team that is also stronger.

 

The only thing the 75 teams could do is try and goon it up. They would have to injure enough players early enough in the game to make a difference in late game endurance 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, klos1963 said:

The Russians would win , unless the pulled Tretiak after the 1st period again.

I disagree. 

1 minute ago, drnkirishone said:

I kinda agree that the modern team would destroy any team from 75. You can overcome speed with team defense. But the game in 75 was light on team defense. It would be near impossible to overcome speed/skill coming from a team that is also stronger.

 

The only thing the 75 teams could do is try and goon it up. They would have to injure enough players early enough in the game to make a difference in late game endurance 

Which seems to be the only defense those on the 1975 team can come up with. 

[Neo]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

How would the modern team adjust to the illegal two-line pass? No touch-up offsides? Freezing the puck along the boards? No instigator? 1975 let ‘em play reffing?

This isn’t the slam-dunk SDS and LGR are portraying it as. There is no doubt the modern college teams are better-trained athletes, but they will be thrown into a different game.

Both sides would be thrown into a different game.  One would have to adjust to the other’s skill and tactics.  One would be unable to adjust to the other’s skill and tactics.

I see kids laughing while skating away, or in circles ... it was tough, but it wasn’t 60 minutes of armed and unrestrained mayhem.

IMHO, for this awesomely labeled “angels on the head of a pin” exercise.