How bad is Tage? Should he be in Rochester?

[LGR4GM]

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by LGR4GM

[TrueBlueGED]

I firmly believe that if Tage was a Murray acquisition, he'd have been in Rochester ages ago. Probably even to start the season. 

[That Aud Smell]

That chart -- with its segmenting, colorations, varying block sizes, values on both sides of the vertical line, etc. -- is somewhat confusing to me.

What is it saying re Pominville, for example?

Sheary?

[CallawaySabres]

I still think Tage will get to where he needs to be but this is exactly why the Blues did not hesitate on the ROR deal. They knew he was a couple years away and they needed a center immediately. Time will tell I guess

[TrueBlueGED]

2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

That chart -- with its segmenting, colorations, varying block sizes, values on both sides of the vertical line, etc. -- is somewhat confusing to me.

What is it saying re Pominville, for example?

Sheary?

Pominville has been very productive given his ice time. Yes, we know that's only because of the time he's been with Jack, which is why knowing the full context is important. If the chart were to only include his non-Jack minutes I assume he'd look awful. 

And my interpretation of Sheary is the chart shows he is who we thought he was. A decent middle-6 guy who is going to score some but is ultimately more of a 3rd liner than 2nd.

[Huckleberry]

Both him and casey need a hell of a workout this offseason and gain some muscle.

[...]

5 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

That chart -- with its segmenting, colorations, varying block sizes, values on both sides of the vertical line, etc. -- is somewhat confusing to me.

What is it saying re Pominville, for example?

Sheary?

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/6/16/15774850/advanced-stats-102-what-is-gar-dawson-sprigings-nhl

Interesting to note where Risto sits on that chart.  And, do my eyes deceive me, or is Eichel not on that chart?

[TrueBlueGED]

Just now, ... said:

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/6/16/15774850/advanced-stats-102-what-is-gar-dawson-sprigings-nhl

Interesting to note where Risto sits on that chart.  And, do my eyes deceive me, or is Eichel not on that chart?

I'm assuming Eichel, Skinner, and Reinhart are the top three. 

[That Aud Smell]

4 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Pominville has been very productive given his ice time. Yes, we know that's only because of the time he's been with Jack, which is why knowing the full context is important. If the chart were to only include his non-Jack minutes I assume he'd look awful. 

And my interpretation of Sheary is the chart shows he is who we thought he was. A decent middle-6 guy who is going to score some but is ultimately more of a 3rd liner than 2nd.

Thanks. I am looking for more granular explanations -- if anyone's able and willing to provide them. Those bar graphs aren't intuitive, imo.

[...]

5 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

I'm assuming Eichel, Skinner, and Reinhart are the top three. 

Yeah, that or the author of the chart assumes they are top three, although I'm sure they did the calculations.  I would like to see their placement, though.

Edited February 28, 2019 by ...

[TrueBlueGED]

1 minute ago, That Aud Smell said:

Thanks. I am looking for more granular explanations -- if anyone's able and willing to provide them. Those bar graphs aren't intuitive, imo.

They're not intuitive. As a stats guy, I have no problem saying most hockey writers who create data visualizations are freaking terrible at it. 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Thanks. I am looking for more granular explanations -- if anyone's able and willing to provide them. Those bar graphs aren't intuitive, imo.

They are for EV Gar, Pens Gar, PP Gar, and SH Gar. They just didn't label the individual sections. 

[...]

1 minute ago, TrueBlueGED said:

They're not intuitive. As a stats guy, I have no problem saying most hockey writers who create data visualizations are freaking terrible at it. 

For example, they need to learn what a "legend" or "key" is. 

[woods-racer]

From watching this season I'm going to run with my gut and say Thompson has a two fold problem.

 

He needs a year in Rochester and would have benefited greatly from it.

If that was not a possibility.

He needs a good center and another good forward and placed on the 3rd line.

He got neither and has bad stats. Not overly to surprising.

Edited February 28, 2019 by woods-racer

[TrueBlueGED]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

They are for EV Gar, Pens Gar, PP Gar, and SH Gar. They just didn't label the individual sections. 

Yea, I mean for most of them the sections are too small to label. A stacked bar design probably isn't the best for these data if you're trying to communicate to a larger audience. 

Just now, ... said:

For example, they need to learn what a "legend" or "key" is. 

I think the biggest problem is the writers who create this stuff largely talk to each other, and they all pretty intuitively get it. But for anyone who is unfamiliar, the presentation is pretty useless. They should be more concerned with clearly communicating the information to a broader audience. 

[Hoss]

Carter Hutton had more points in February than Tage Thompson did.

[TrueBlueGED]

2 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Carter Hutton had more points in February than Tage Thompson did.

Well, that spells out the problem pretty concisely. 

[woods-racer]

5 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Carter Hutton had more points in February than Tage Thompson did.

ooff

[Drunkard]

So Thompson and Sobotka are playing like trash and Berglund packed his bags to go home. So much for the O'Reilly trade providing that valuable depth the team lacked. Either that first round pick needs to turn into Wayne Gretzky or Montour needs to turn into Gordie Howe (depending on which pick we give Anaheim) or that trade will continue to look like garbage.

[That Aud Smell]

25 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

They are for EV Gar, Pens Gar, PP Gar, and SH Gar. They just didn't label the individual sections. 

That's the nub of my question.

I appreciate the feedback, and have concluded that these aren't the charts I'm looking for.

[stuuuuuuuuu]

1 hour ago, TrueBlueGED said:

They're not intuitive. As a stats guy, I have no problem saying most hockey writers who create data visualizations are freaking terrible at it. 

Quit our jobs and start a Tableau driven advanced stats site?  You can do the numbers, i'll make them pretty?

Edited February 28, 2019 by Stu

[LGR4GM]

38 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

That's the nub of my question.

 

 

GAR is goals above replacement. A replacement level player is one who could be easily acquired for little to no cost immediately, such as via waivers or league minimum contract. 

[Samson's Flow]

Tage has moments on the ice where I see the potential and he could be something. He occasionally is able to deke through defenders and use his long reach and strong shot to look dangerous.

Unfortunately, that is drastically offset by other times looking like a newborn giraffe on ice, and having very poor advanced stats metrics. I just think he's still so young that a lot of the things that used to work for him in juniors are not working in the NHL, and because of it leads to odd man rushes and opportunities for our opponents.

I think he's only in Buffalo to continue to show something from the ROR trade, since Berglund left and Sobotka is an unmitigated disaster as well.

[inkman]

No excuse for him not being in Rochester this season.

1 hour ago, Drunkard said:

So Thompson and Sobotka are playing like trash...

I didn't need a chart to get to this conclusion

[Sabre fan]

Clearly this was another of JBoto's trades to get rid of a Murray guy and bring in his own guys...hence Tage keeps playing even though he should be in Rochester cause if not then we have absolutely nothing to show for one of the worse trades ever...

I happened to like ORielly and even though many wanted to run him out of town I think saying the truth (that there is a bad losing culture here). Apparently there still is as we struggle through yet another frustrating year.  How in hell do you give up probably the best all-around center for a bunch of nothing  and get away with it is beyond me. Everybody dumped on Murray yet that trade alone is absolutely revolting.

Can anybody tell me why Nylander isn't at least getting he same chance as Tage? Simple, he is a Murray guy and will no doubt be gone soon too. JBotto is obviously clearing out Murray's guys and bringing in his own hence we are stuck with Tage Scandella etc...