Official:Trade Brandon Montour to Buffalo for 1st and Guhle

[jame]

1 minute ago, Scottysabres said:

There are some solid points in your post. There is also some indications by the Ducks organizations decisions over the past year and 1/2 or so that they are rebuilding/retooling (call it what you will) their blue line. Even if that rebuild/retool is in a state of flux.

After all, you don't leave Theodore exposed as the sacrificial lamb for the expansion to protect Montour (which is exactly what happened) and move Vat's, then move Montour shortly there after without some decision to go in a different direction. That in and of itself, is more than sufficient data to say they are rebuilding/retooling their blue line at least, even if on a smaller scale.

But outside of that, over all, yes, I concur, their forward core is staying largely intact and they have the complimentary pieces at prime age to continue on. However, with that being said, and given the length's on those Perry, Getzlaf and Kesler contracts, it is reasonable to question what they do plan to do, since their secondary piece core (and let's face it, those you listed, that is what they are, as of now) will be around the 28 to 33 age when their core stars fizzle out completely.

That, is a very questionable strategy by the Ducks management team, at least, imho.

Agreed across the board. 

I think the strategy for the forward core will be similar to what SJ has done, transitioning Joe and Pavs down the lineup as Couture, Hertl, etc take over. Sure, if the opportunity comes to rid themselves of Perry or Kesler they'll take that opportunity.... 

My main argument was to counter the position that Anaheim was doing a tear down. They are absolutely not doing that.

[Doohicksie]

4 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Do I have that interaction with a lot of people on here?

Yeah kinda.

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

Yeah kinda.

Well alright then. Maybe it's time I take a break too

[#freejame]

1 minute ago, WildCard said:

Well alright then. Maybe it's time I take a break too

Please don’t 

[Samson's Flow]

15 minutes ago, jame said:

Careful... they are really serious about this type of stuff here. I don't want you to get banned.

Sorry the use of the bold format offended you.

Dude seriously, stop talking to us like we are petulant children

[Scottysabres]

2 minutes ago, jame said:

Agreed across the board. 

I think the strategy for the forward core will be similar to what SJ has done, transitioning Joe and Pavs down the lineup as Couture, Hertl, etc take over. Sure, if the opportunity comes to rid themselves of Perry or Kesler they'll take that opportunity.... 

My main argument was to counter the position that Anaheim was doing a tear down. They are absolutely not doing that.

Yeah, I concur. They are going to try another run with largely this group next season I suspect. Although, admittedly, none of us are privy to what type of conversations were had this round that may bare fruit in the off season. But I to think they'll largely keep this forward group intact. Would love to rip Rakell from them but that's just a day dream I know.

[nfreeman]

3 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Well alright then. Maybe it's time I take a break too

No thank you.  @Doohickie is out to lunch on this.

[Doohicksie]

2 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Well alright then. Maybe it's time I take a break too

 

Just now, IrwinNelson said:

Please don’t 

I don't think a break is necessary... just a bit of awareness when things start to get excited.  You are enthusiastic and well-informed, both great traits for a poster, but sometimes a little too enthusiastic to the point of stomping on other views/opinions.  You're hardly the only one.  I'm sure I'm too opinionated too sometimes.  That's what makes us passionate fans.

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

No thank you.  @Doohickie is out to lunch on this.

Also entirely possible.

[Samson's Flow]

22 minutes ago, jame said:

You're acting like the trading of a 24 year old defensemen indicates that they've completely changed their plan?

1. They signed a 28 year old pending UFA to a 5 year extension... 5 days ago. (Silfverberg). I mean that alone should be enough to sink your argument right? Instead of going to the trade market to get a 1st or prospects for Silfverberg... they re-signed him

2. Here is a list of the prime aged talent and long term deals they have: Rakell (25), Gibson (25), Lindholm (25), Kase (23), Fowler (27), Silfverberg (28), Manson (27). Do you honestly think they are going to tear down? Please note, that the attempted removal of Kesler and Perry is not a tear down in and of itself.

3. What the above is meant to illustrate is that Anaheim has already identified it's new core, they don't need a tear down to build one. The fact is that they identified that Montour was not part of that core. We can debate the reasons for that.... for sure, that's all subjective. But Anaheim has given zero indication they are doing a tear down.

That said, everything here is great content and supports the point that maybe it won't be a full tear down, even if they try to get out of the aging "star" contracts.

But there are still these little personal jabs that to me insinuate that you are better than us and were just daft for not getting it. It's tiring to engage with and makes it so I don't want to respond. Perhaps I need to get a tougher skin, but i've been here for almost 10 years and I have rarely felt so consistently personally attacked.

7 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Well alright then. Maybe it's time I take a break too

Yeah dont. You aren't even close to the only one who feels this way.

If you leave, i'm leaving too.

[#freejame]

2 minutes ago, Samson's Flow said:

 

If you leave, i'm leaving too.

Please don’t

[Doohicksie]

I'm not leaving, you're all stuck with me.  ?

 

And if I'm still here it would be irresponsible of the rest of you to turn me loose on this forum without constant correction and redirection.

[Samson's Flow]

10 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Yeah kinda.

I've had page long debates with WildCard on a number of issues and never once have I felt like he didn't respect my opinion, even if we are arguing polar opposite points. I have had similar debates with mostly everyone on this board.

I have seen others come and go who were clearly trolls, and I can spot and ignore them. Jame's posts are ones with a lot of strong opinions, which all/most are also great hockey points that I would love to debate with, but I just can't do it when every post has a little personal dig in them that indicates that this poster doesn't seem to have an ounce of respect for the person on the other side of the debate. It's infuriating to interact with on a regular basis, but I keep getting sucked in by the good hockey points. Maybe i am being trolled. Who the ***** knows.

[...]

[jame]

4 minutes ago, Samson's Flow said:

That said, everything here is great content and supports the point that maybe it won't be a full tear down, even if they try to get out of the aging "star" contracts.

But there are still these little personal jabs that to me insinuate that you are better than us and were just daft for not getting it. It's tiring to engage with and makes it so I don't want to respond. Perhaps I need to get a tougher skin, but i've been here for almost 10 years and I have rarely felt so consistently personally attacked.

Yeah dont. You aren't even close to the only one who feels this way.

If you leave, i'm leaving too.

What little jab? I'm literally proof reading posts trying to make sure not a single thing can be interpreted as offensive, mean, dickish, whatever.... and some folks are still upset because i used bold text? And inferred something offensive from that?

 

[SwampD]

Man, it just feels so much better trading a pick for a player than trading a player for a pick.

[spndnchz]

New shiny things.

[Samson's Flow]

11 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Yeah, I concur. They are going to try another run with largely this group next season I suspect. Although, admittedly, none of us are privy to what type of conversations were had this round that may bare fruit in the off season. But I to think they'll largely keep this forward group intact. Would love to rip Rakell from them but that's just a day dream I know.

Getting back to Anahiem - if they aren't able to shed Getzlaf and Kesler's contracts, then they are going to be unsuccessful in rebuilding, even if the rest of the "new" core turns out good. I don't think you can field anything more than an average team when your two largest contracts are on the downside of their careers.

[PerreaultForever]

ok so this thread has lost it's focus.

Guess we're not talking about Montour any more. have fun. 

[Scottysabres]

1 minute ago, Samson's Flow said:

Getting back to Anahiem - if they aren't able to shed Getzlaf and Kesler's contracts, then they are going to be unsuccessful in rebuilding, even if the rest of the "new" core turns out good. I don't think you can field anything more than an average team when your two largest contracts are on the downside of their careers.

I agree. I am not sure what the Ducks are waiting for. They should have put Getzlaf, Perry and Kesler all on the block this deadline. Indeed, they should be on the block this coming draft as well as off season. I know it would be difficult to move Kesler given age and term, I am confident they could have found significant value in a return for both Perry and Getzlaf given they each have only 2 seasons left, albeit at 8.6 and 8.2 a season respectively. There are teams out there I could see scooping one or maybe even both up. NYI comes to mind immediately, along with New Jersey.

But the point is, they could have stocked up on prospects, picks and young nhl or near nhl ready talent via deals like this while helping to ease pressure on their cap situation.

[nfreeman]

 

7 minutes ago, jame said:

What little jab? I'm literally proof reading posts trying to make sure not a single thing can be interpreted as offensive, mean, dickish, whatever.... and some folks are still upset because i used bold text? And inferred something offensive from that?

 

The bold text is a straw man.  As you know, it's not a font issue.  There is a general problem with your tone.

The nuggets below are all from the last few hours in just this thread.  All of them are obnoxious and not OK.

I'm glad you are proofreading posts and trying to improve.  Hopefully that will address the situation.  We are not going to have valued members of the community get fed up and leave because you are incapable of friendly and respectful communication.

 

 

1 hour ago, jame said:

So you expect Kesler, Perry, and Getzlaf to be traded in the next hour? Or you expect them to wave their NMCs soon?

What do you think a tear down is?

 

1 hour ago, jame said:

But Perry and Kesler have no value. Have you seen their contracts and their play? They are toast... no one is taking those contracts on for MULTIPLE years.

 

 

1 hour ago, jame said:

It's an interesting take.... team trades 24 year old defensemen, fans read the tea leaves as a tear down.....

That is after signing Henrique long term, and getting Rakell and Kase on bargain contracts through their prime.... and having an elite young netminder... But sure... they've got to tear it all down because of bad contracts. 

 

1 hour ago, jame said:

Is "middle 6" is what you label a prospect who you know doesn't have the skill to translate to the NHL at anything more than a role player?

 

1 hour ago, jame said:

Good thing we didn't include that 3rd asset... that would've ruined it.

[LGR4GM]

I think it's a decent trade. I doubt Guhle so yea, we'll see how that first turns out. 

[jame]

4 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

The bold text is a straw man.  As you know, it's not a font issue.  There is a general problem with your tone.

The nuggets below are all from the last few hours in just this thread.  All of them are obnoxious and not OK.

I'm glad you are proofreading posts and trying to improve.  Hopefully that will address the situation.  We are not going to have valued members of the community get fed up and leave because you are incapable of friendly and respectful communication.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wildcard made very clear how he interpreted the bold text.... it is not a strawman. You're trying to downplay his response. Just as you came to his defense when another poster called out his behavior. 

1. What's wrong with asking questions to clarify someone's position? 

2. What's wrong with challenging someone's position with logic?

3 and 4. Yea... total snarky sarcasm, but @LGR4GM has stated he is perfectly comfortable with this level of sarcasm.

Edited February 25, 2019 by jame

[jame]

I'm logging off so you guys can get back on track.

[#freejame]

3 minutes ago, jame said:

Wildcard made very clear how he interpreted the bold text.... it is not a strawman. You're trying to downplay his response. Just as you came to his defense when another poster called out his behavior. 

1. What's wrong with asking questions to clarify someone's position? 

2. What's wrong with challenging someone's position with logic?

3 and 4. Yea... total snarky sarcasm, but @LGR4GM has stated he is perfectly comfortable with this level of sarcasm.

I think a large part of the issue is people can’t tell when the bolded is asked legitimately for more information or rhetorically to be an *****. That’s a problem with the internet as a whole though.

[dudacek]

For what it’s worth, I think it’s easy to read tone into the written word based on past experience even when it may not be there.

****

To the point, I am really intrigued to see if Montour can emerge into a Brian Campbell level puck mover.

At the moment he’s closer to where Beaulieu was when we acquired him than most here would like to admit.

The Ducks know D and decided to move on. Why?

I’ve read some stuff about Botterill’s asset management today that strikes me as petty. I’m far more concerned about his player judgement at the NHL level.

Hes targeted guys like Sheary and Berglund and Beaulieu and his whole first free agent class who seemed to be value pickups but have greatly disappointed on the ice.

I need to see a win here.

Edited February 25, 2019 by dudacek