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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

whose expectations? Yours, the guy in the seat next to you, your barber or...?

The expectations they should be better than dudes drafted 15 to 20 places lower then them...this isn't the NFL...it's a little easier to tell who will be really good in the NHL

Edited by matter2003
Posted
7 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

whose expectations? Yours, the guy in the seat next to you, your barber or...?

Let's look at the R1 and R2 picks each year since 2010.  Are we happy with the results? 

2010 1 23 Mark Pysyk 

2011 1 16 Joel Armia  Finland RW 180 26 32 58 54     

2012 1 12 Mikhail Grigorenko  Russia C 217 22 42 64 30     

2012 1 14 Zemgus Girgensons ₪  Latvia C 348 44 57 101 103     

2012 2 44 Jake McCabe  United States D 215 10 37 47 118     

2013 1 8 Rasmus Ristolainen  Finland D 346 31 120 151 171     

2013 1 16 Nikita Zadorov  Russia D 222 11 37 48 243     

2013 2 35 J.T. Compher  United States C 90 16 12 28 24     

2013 2 38 Connor Hurley  United States C 0         

2013 2 52 Justin Bailey  United States RW 52 5 3 8 8     

2014 1 2 Sam Reinhart  Canada C 249 65 75 140 44     

2014 2 31 Brendan Lemieux  Canada LW 9 1 0 1 21     

2014 2 44 Eric Cornel  Canada C 0         

2014 2 49 Vaclav Karabacek  Czech Republic RW 0          

2015 1 2 Jack Eichel  United States C 209 73 104 177 76     

2015 2 51 Brendan Guhle  Canada D 21 0 5 5 10     

2016 1 8 Alexander Nylander  Sweden LW 7 1 1 2 0     

2016 2 33 Rasmus Asplund  Sweden C 0         

2017 1 8 Casey Mittelstadt  United States C 6 1 4 5 2     

2017 2 37 Marcus Davidsson  Sweden C 0         

2017 2 54 Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen         

2018 1 1 Rasmus Dahlin

2018 2 32 Mattias Samuelsson 

Posted
5 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Not really...look at Barzal with the Islanders...dude had 85 points his first year after 1 year in the minors

 

Barzal had Tavares to learn from even if only 1year. Tell me who Jack had to learn from, oh yeah that's right, he got to learn how to be a 2C from ROR. 

Posted
4 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Let's look at the R1 and R2 picks each year since 2010.  Are we happy with the results? 

2010 1 23 Mark Pysyk 

2011 1 16 Joel Armia  Finland RW 180 26 32 58 54     

2012 1 12 Mikhail Grigorenko  Russia C 217 22 42 64 30     

2012 1 14 Zemgus Girgensons ₪  Latvia C 348 44 57 101 103     

2012 2 44 Jake McCabe  United States D 215 10 37 47 118     

2013 1 8 Rasmus Ristolainen  Finland D 346 31 120 151 171     

2013 1 16 Nikita Zadorov  Russia D 222 11 37 48 243     

2013 2 35 J.T. Compher  United States C 90 16 12 28 24     

2013 2 38 Connor Hurley  United States C 0         

2013 2 52 Justin Bailey  United States RW 52 5 3 8 8     

2014 1 2 Sam Reinhart  Canada C 249 65 75 140 44     

2014 2 31 Brendan Lemieux  Canada LW 9 1 0 1 21     

2014 2 44 Eric Cornel  Canada C 0         

2014 2 49 Vaclav Karabacek  Czech Republic RW 0          

2015 1 2 Jack Eichel  United States C 209 73 104 177 76     

2015 2 51 Brendan Guhle  Canada D 21 0 5 5 10     

2016 1 8 Alexander Nylander  Sweden LW 7 1 1 2 0     

2016 2 33 Rasmus Asplund  Sweden C 0         

2017 1 8 Casey Mittelstadt  United States C 6 1 4 5 2     

2017 2 37 Marcus Davidsson  Sweden C 0         

2017 2 54 Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen         

2018 1 1 Rasmus Dahlin

2018 2 32 Mattias Samuelsson 

The bolded is a huge reason why we are in this mess IMO. No difference makers in the lot, and only two solid pieces (Risto & McCabe) in 4 years.

Those should be our 23-26 yr old players in prime roles.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

The expectations they should be better than dudes drafted 15 to 20 places lower then them...this isn't the NFL...it's a little easier to tell who will be really good in the NHL

Tell me which draft that every player drafted after ours for 15-20 spots has developed better than ours. Or were you planning on "cherry picking"?.

Also remember that every other team has experienced where players behind theirs in the draft have developed better too. Everyone is questioning Boston's 3 picks recently. You could continually cherry pick on and on and on, all day long. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Welcome aboard, been saying it since middle of last season.

What's this ship called? I have been floating in a see of sadness for a long time.

Posted
30 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Tell me which draft that every player drafted after ours for 15-20 spots has developed better than ours. Or were you planning on "cherry picking"?.

Also remember that every other team has experienced where players behind theirs in the draft have developed better too. Everyone is questioning Boston's 3 picks recently. You could continually cherry pick on and on and on, all day long. 

OK, let's do this.  Here is the history of our R3 - R7 Picks since 2010.  How many of these picks have played for the Sabres and how much impact have they made?  I would argue that our drafting history since 2010 has been poor by any measure.  The vast majority have played "0" games in the NHL.  This is not cherry-picking.

2010 3 68 Jerome Gauthier-Leduc  Canada D 0         

2010 3 75 Kevin Sundher  Canada C 0         

2010 3 83 Matt MacKenzie  Canada D 0         

2010 4 98 Steven Shipley  Canada C 0         

2010 5 143 Greg Sutch  Canada RW 0         

2010 6 173 Cedrick Henley  Canada LW 0         

2010 7 203 Christian Isackson  United States RW 0         

2010 7 208 Riley Boychuk  Canada LW 0         

2011 3 77 Daniel Catenacci  Canada C 11 0 0 0 0     

2011 4 107 Colin Jacobs  United States C 0         

2011 5 137 Alex Lepkowski  United States D 0         

2011 6 167 Nathan Lieuwen  Canada G 7 0 0 0 0 1 4 0 0 .906 

2011 7 197 Brad Navin  United States C 0         

2012 3 73 Justin Kea  Canada C 0         

2012 5 133 Logan Nelson  United States C 0         

2012 6 163 Linus Ullmark  Sweden G 26 0 0 0 0 9 13 0 2 .917 

2012 7 193 Brady Austin  Canada D 5 0 0 0 4     

2012 7 204 Judd Peterson  United States C 0         

2013 3 69 Nicholas Baptiste  Canada RW 47 7 3 10 20     

2013 5 129 Calvin Petersen  United States G 0         

2013 5 130 Gustav Possler  Sweden RW 0         

2013 5 143 Anthony Florentino  United States D 0         

2013 6 159 Sean Malone  United States C 1 0 0 0 0     

2013 7 189 Eric Locke  United States C 0         

2014 3 61 Jonas Johansson  Sweden G 0         

2014 3 74 Brycen Martin  Canada D 0         

2014 5 121 Maxwell Willman  United States C 0         

2014 6 151 Christopher Brown  United States C 0         

2014 7 181 Victor Olofsson  Sweden RW 0         

2015 4 92 William Borgen  United States D 0         

2015 5 122 Devante Stephens  Canada D 0         

2015 6 152 Giorgio Estephan  Canada C 0         

2015 7 182 Ivan Chukarov  United States D 0         

2016 3 69 Cliff Pu  Canada C 0         

2016 3 86 Casey Fitzgerald  United States D 0         

2016 4 99 Brett Murray  Canada LW 0          

2016 5 129 Philip Nyberg  Sweden D 0         

2016 5 130 Vojtech Budik  Czech Republic D 0         

2016 6 159 Brandon Hagel  Canada LW 0         

2016 7 189 Austin Osmanski  United States D 0         

2016 7 190 Vasily Glotov  Russia C 0         

2017 3 89 Oskari Laaksonen  Finland D 0         

2017 4 99 Jacob Bryson  Canada D 0          

2017 7 192 Linus Weissbach  Sweden LW 0         

2018 4 94 Matej Pekar  Czech Republic C         

2018 4 117 Linus Lindstrom Cronholm  Sweden D          

2018 5 125 Miska Kukkonen  Finland D         

2018 7 187 William Worge Kreu  Sweden D

Posted
2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Why do we blame our few good players for the flaws of the team?

Casey Mittelstadt and Tage Thompson have 15 goals and 15 assists combined and regularly turn the puck over. Offensive defenseman Lawrence Pilut has one goal in 25 games and is regularly ground down along the walls and overpowered in front of the net. The only player with more soft plays on this team than those three is our golden boy Rasmus Dahlin. CJ Smith has consistently failed to find space or make plays. Sobotka, Girgensons and Larsson might not score 15 this year combined. That's nearly half the roster.

But we excuse the play of the kids in our complaining because we have too much hope invested in them and we need to find hope in something. Instead, we want to trade Eichel and Reinhart and Ristolainen because we used to have hope for them and the team is still bad.

Here's an idea: let's keep our good players, develop our youngsters and bring in more good players.

This "cut them all" mentality drives me nuts.

This place is getting angry.  It’s been that way for years, now.  Same ol’, same ol’.  Accordingly, I’m for cutting Dudacek.

#noonebetterbetakingmeseriously

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Posted
1 hour ago, Samson's Flow said:

The bolded is a huge reason why we are in this mess IMO. No difference makers in the lot, and only two solid pieces (Risto & McCabe) in 4 years.

Those should be our 23-26 yr old players in prime roles.

Your bolded is totally irrelevant to the standings in the NHL.

Edmonton drafted.....

2010...Taylor Hall, Tyler Pitlick, Martin Marincin

2011...RNH, Klefbom, David Musil

2012...Yak, mitchell Moroz

2013...Nurse, Marc-Olivier Roy

And they sit in 27th place overall

Meanwhile, Toronto has drafted...

2010...Brad Ross

2011...Tyler Biggs, Stuart Percy (both 1st dr)

2012...Morgan Rielly, Matt Finn

2013...Fred Gauthier

And they sit in 6th place overall

We could go on like this all day, the draft is a "crap"shoot. 

46 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

OK, let's do this.  Here is the history of our R3 - R7 Picks since 2010.  How many of these picks have played for the Sabres and how much impact have they made?  I would argue that our drafting history since 2010 has been poor by any measure.  The vast majority have played "0" games in the NHL.  This is not cherry-picking.

2010 3 68 Jerome Gauthier-Leduc  Canada D 0         

2010 3 75 Kevin Sundher  Canada C 0         

2010 3 83 Matt MacKenzie  Canada D 0         

2010 4 98 Steven Shipley  Canada C 0         

2010 5 143 Greg Sutch  Canada RW 0         

2010 6 173 Cedrick Henley  Canada LW 0         

2010 7 203 Christian Isackson  United States RW 0         

2010 7 208 Riley Boychuk  Canada LW 0         

2011 3 77 Daniel Catenacci  Canada C 11 0 0 0 0     

2011 4 107 Colin Jacobs  United States C 0         

2011 5 137 Alex Lepkowski  United States D 0         

2011 6 167 Nathan Lieuwen  Canada G 7 0 0 0 0 1 4 0 0 .906 

2011 7 197 Brad Navin  United States C 0         

2012 3 73 Justin Kea  Canada C 0         

2012 5 133 Logan Nelson  United States C 0         

2012 6 163 Linus Ullmark  Sweden G 26 0 0 0 0 9 13 0 2 .917 

2012 7 193 Brady Austin  Canada D 5 0 0 0 4     

2012 7 204 Judd Peterson  United States C 0         

2013 3 69 Nicholas Baptiste  Canada RW 47 7 3 10 20     

2013 5 129 Calvin Petersen  United States G 0         

2013 5 130 Gustav Possler  Sweden RW 0         

2013 5 143 Anthony Florentino  United States D 0         

2013 6 159 Sean Malone  United States C 1 0 0 0 0     

2013 7 189 Eric Locke  United States C 0         

2014 3 61 Jonas Johansson  Sweden G 0         

2014 3 74 Brycen Martin  Canada D 0         

2014 5 121 Maxwell Willman  United States C 0         

2014 6 151 Christopher Brown  United States C 0         

2014 7 181 Victor Olofsson  Sweden RW 0         

2015 4 92 William Borgen  United States D 0         

2015 5 122 Devante Stephens  Canada D 0         

2015 6 152 Giorgio Estephan  Canada C 0         

2015 7 182 Ivan Chukarov  United States D 0         

2016 3 69 Cliff Pu  Canada C 0         

2016 3 86 Casey Fitzgerald  United States D 0         

2016 4 99 Brett Murray  Canada LW 0          

2016 5 129 Philip Nyberg  Sweden D 0         

2016 5 130 Vojtech Budik  Czech Republic D 0         

2016 6 159 Brandon Hagel  Canada LW 0         

2016 7 189 Austin Osmanski  United States D 0         

2016 7 190 Vasily Glotov  Russia C 0         

2017 3 89 Oskari Laaksonen  Finland D 0         

2017 4 99 Jacob Bryson  Canada D 0          

2017 7 192 Linus Weissbach  Sweden LW 0         

2018 4 94 Matej Pekar  Czech Republic C         

2018 4 117 Linus Lindstrom Cronholm  Sweden D          

2018 5 125 Miska Kukkonen  Finland D         

2018 7 187 William Worge Kreu  Sweden D

This doesn't even come close to answering my question...deflecting???

Posted

Risto is currently at a career -125. He is on pace to destroy Bob Stewart's NHL-worst career plus/minus of -260. A lot of the blame, however, for Risto's plus/minus should go to the atrocious rosters he's been on and to an atrocious franchise that has mismanaged his career from the beginning.

Posted
54 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

OK, let's do this.  Here is the history of our R3 - R7 Picks since 2010.  How many of these picks have played for the Sabres and how much impact have they made?  I would argue that our drafting history since 2010 has been poor by any measure.  The vast majority have played "0" games in the NHL.  This is not cherry-picking.

2010 3 68 Jerome Gauthier-Leduc  Canada D 0         

2010 3 75 Kevin Sundher  Canada C 0         

2010 3 83 Matt MacKenzie  Canada D 0         

2010 4 98 Steven Shipley  Canada C 0         

2010 5 143 Greg Sutch  Canada RW 0         

2010 6 173 Cedrick Henley  Canada LW 0         

2010 7 203 Christian Isackson  United States RW 0         

2010 7 208 Riley Boychuk  Canada LW 0         

2011 3 77 Daniel Catenacci  Canada C 11 0 0 0 0     

2011 4 107 Colin Jacobs  United States C 0         

2011 5 137 Alex Lepkowski  United States D 0         

2011 6 167 Nathan Lieuwen  Canada G 7 0 0 0 0 1 4 0 0 .906 

2011 7 197 Brad Navin  United States C 0         

2012 3 73 Justin Kea  Canada C 0         

2012 5 133 Logan Nelson  United States C 0         

2012 6 163 Linus Ullmark  Sweden G 26 0 0 0 0 9 13 0 2 .917 

2012 7 193 Brady Austin  Canada D 5 0 0 0 4     

2012 7 204 Judd Peterson  United States C 0         

2013 3 69 Nicholas Baptiste  Canada RW 47 7 3 10 20     

2013 5 129 Calvin Petersen  United States G 0         

2013 5 130 Gustav Possler  Sweden RW 0         

2013 5 143 Anthony Florentino  United States D 0         

2013 6 159 Sean Malone  United States C 1 0 0 0 0     

2013 7 189 Eric Locke  United States C 0         

2014 3 61 Jonas Johansson  Sweden G 0         

2014 3 74 Brycen Martin  Canada D 0         

2014 5 121 Maxwell Willman  United States C 0         

2014 6 151 Christopher Brown  United States C 0         

2014 7 181 Victor Olofsson  Sweden RW 0         

2015 4 92 William Borgen  United States D 0         

2015 5 122 Devante Stephens  Canada D 0         

2015 6 152 Giorgio Estephan  Canada C 0         

2015 7 182 Ivan Chukarov  United States D 0         

2016 3 69 Cliff Pu  Canada C 0         

2016 3 86 Casey Fitzgerald  United States D 0         

2016 4 99 Brett Murray  Canada LW 0          

2016 5 129 Philip Nyberg  Sweden D 0         

2016 5 130 Vojtech Budik  Czech Republic D 0         

2016 6 159 Brandon Hagel  Canada LW 0         

2016 7 189 Austin Osmanski  United States D 0         

2016 7 190 Vasily Glotov  Russia C 0         

2017 3 89 Oskari Laaksonen  Finland D 0         

2017 4 99 Jacob Bryson  Canada D 0          

2017 7 192 Linus Weissbach  Sweden LW 0         

2018 4 94 Matej Pekar  Czech Republic C         

2018 4 117 Linus Lindstrom Cronholm  Sweden D          

2018 5 125 Miska Kukkonen  Finland D         

2018 7 187 William Worge Kreu  Sweden D

You missed Cal Peterson.  He was in goal for the Kings when they beat us a couple weeks ago.

Posted

No and hell no. The team isn't playing like a team. It's playing like a bunch of guys in a beer league or something. Is that Risto's fault? The coach is a kid in over his head, it seems to me.  Risto is a player I'd never trade. Tough, talented and on a team that needs some more direction, imo

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Posted (edited)

No the team is young and I expect younger next year with more talent... patience is needed... though I have to admit the downturn this year has been frustrating. 

Edited by North Buffalo
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Posted
40 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Your bolded is totally irrelevant to the standings in the NHL.

Edmonton drafted.....

2010...Taylor Hall, Tyler Pitlick, Martin Marincin

2011...RNH, Klefbom, David Musil

2012...Yak, mitchell Moroz

2013...Nurse, Marc-Olivier Roy

And they sit in 27th place overall

Meanwhile, Toronto has drafted...

2010...Brad Ross

2011...Tyler Biggs, Stuart Percy (both 1st dr)

2012...Morgan Rielly, Matt Finn

2013...Fred Gauthier

And they sit in 6th place overall

We could go on like this all day, the draft is a "crap"shoot. 

This doesn't even come close to answering my question...deflecting???

Not deflecting at all....my point is that we drafted poorly and that is a key reason we are where we are. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

50, or so, replies to a joke thread by that big joker.

It actually seems that most of you took it seriously.

I don't see it that way....people have been suggesting this for quite a while now.  It's not an Olof Pilar thread.

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Posted
4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Yup, you heard me. I think we should trade Ristolainen but not for picks or questionable prospects. I mean for either a center or different RHD. 

You'd be doing him a big favor. Look at the last string of players we've cut or traded.

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

Risto has been a bad defenseman nearly his entire time on the team.  there is a perception he is good; he's not.  

He brings a little bit of grit to the lineup, but that is easily replaced if we want to.  His greater value lies as a trade subject, if you can find someone who still thinks he's a good up and coming young d-man.

 

 

Yep, easily replaced:

In the five years since Risto arrived, the Sabres have tried Jamie McBain, Nikita Zadorov, Jake McCabe, Chad Ruhwedel, Andrej Meszaros, Andre Benoit, Zach Bogosian, Josh Gorges, Tyson Strachan, Cody Franson, Carlo Colaiacovo, Casey Nelson, Justin Falk, Taylor Fedun, Dimitri Kulikov, Eric Burgdoerfer, Brendan Guhle, Brady Austin, Marco Scandella, Viktor Antipin, Zach Redmond, Nathan Beaulieu, Matt Tennyson, Lawrence Pilut and Matt Hunwick.

25 ***** players, not one of them better than Risto.

We literally won the freaking lottery last year and picked the best prospect defenceman in 25 years and Risto is still our top guy.

Easy peasy.

2 hours ago, SDS said:

So the idea here is that the fans have a solid read and who he is as a player and the hope is that we can trick one of those big dummy general managers, that worked their way up to the top of their profession, in hopes that their scouting department and entire roster-building structure has no idea what they’re getting? 

Sounds like a solid plan. 

Building an NHL team is dead simple. It's not like you need things like three world junior gold medals, an NCAA title, a professional playing career that includes a Calder Cup title, an MBA, a stint with NHL Central registry, time as a scout, or 10 years as an assistant general manager for a team that won three Stanley Cups on your resume.

Anybody can be a GM.

Edited by dudacek
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Posted
9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Yep, easily replaced:

In the five years since Risto arrived, the Sabres have tried Jamie McBain, Nikita Zadorov, Jake McCabe, Chad Ruhwedel, Andrej Meszaros, Andre Benoit, Zach Bogosian, Josh Gorges, Tyson Strachan, Cody Franson, Carlo Colaiacovo, Casey Nelson, Justin Falk, Taylor Fedun, Dimitri Kulikov, Eric Burgdoerfer, Brendan Guhle, Brady Austin, Marco Scandella, Viktor Antipin, Zach Redmond, Nathan Beaulieu, Matt Tennyson, Lawrence Pilut and Matt Hunwick.

25 ***** players, not one of them better than Risto.

We literally won the freaking lottery last year and picked the best prospect defenceman in 25 years and Risto is still our top guy.

Easy peasy.

Building an NHL team is dead simple. It's not like you need things like three world junior gold medals, an NCAA title, a professional playing career that includes a Calder Cup title, an MBA, a stint with NHL Central registry, time as a scout, or 10 years as an assistant general manager for a team that won three Stanley Cups on your resume.

Anybody can be a GM.

I think you just summed up most of but not all of Ristos problems, the garbage he has had to play with in his early career so far. Throw in his 4th head coach in 6 years and it's no wonder why the best of Risto hasn't been seen yet.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

No and hell no. The team isn't playing like a team. It's playing like a bunch of guys in a beer league or something. Is that Risto's fault? The coach is a kid in over his head, it seems to me.  Risto is a player I'd never trade. Tough, talented and on a team that needs some more direction, imo

He's a horse and they're hard to come by. Earlier in the year he was playing better than now. He has been asked to play without much support recently.

I attribute much of the regression of the team to lack of depth and talent. Like it or not people need to realize it takes time.

People saying Its been X number of years since......have no clue as to how these hockey teams are built.

The core of this team Risto, Jack, Skinner, Sam, Dahlin,Bogo aren't in need of replacement-only more growth and support. 

Edited by Torpedo Forecheck
Posted

Wouldn't trade him. Sometimes I think he's cast into a larger role than ideally he should play but that's because of our limitations player wise on our team right now.

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