Ristolainen, time to trade him away

[LGR4GM]

Yup, you heard me. I think we should trade Ristolainen but not for picks or questionable prospects. I mean for either a center or different RHD. 

[Scottysabres]

Welcome aboard, been saying it since middle of last season.

[dudacek]

I also think we should trade Dahlin while he still has some value. Clearly, he hasn't made a difference.

We have officially become the Bills fan base.

[SDS]

 I assume the normal trade guidelines are applicable here? We want to trade away our  flawed, disappointing player that fans can no longer tolerate for someone else’s high-end, flawless hockey playing machine? 

[Ross Rhea]

He was a -2 last night and the 2 goals against I seen when he was on the ice were not because of him but he takes the -2 for it. Sure he is responsible for some goals against but it sure does seem others don't do their job and the puck ends up in the net alot and he happens to be on the ice and take the minus for it.

 

He just turned 24, no way would I trade him away.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Ross Rhea

[woods-racer]

Let's trade away one of the few team mates with any grit in their game because we a filled to the brim with a team of gritty players.

?

[Scottysabres]

8 minutes ago, SDS said:

 I assume the normal trade guidelines are applicable here? We want to trade away our  flawed, disappointing player that fans can no longer tolerate for someone else’s high-end, flawless hockey playing machine? 

Normally I'd agree SDS. But in this case, it isn't working, a hockey trade can be done I'd reckon that can start to address some failures. I'm not looking for an all star.

[Scottysabres]

8 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

Let's trade away one of the few team mates with any grit in their game because we a filled to the brim with a team of gritty players.

?

Risto's mistakes are well documented, and while I understand the hesitation to move him, he is one of the very few with value left. If it isn't working, then it isn't working.

McCabe is another one.

[Ross Rhea]

16 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Risto's mistakes are well documented, and while I understand the hesitation to move him, he is one of the very few with value left. If it isn't working, then it isn't working.

McCabe is another one.

Lot of other useless players I would get rid of way before getting rid of Risto.

[dudacek]

Why do we blame our few good players for the flaws of the team?

Casey Mittelstadt and Tage Thompson have 15 goals and 15 assists combined and regularly turn the puck over. Offensive defenseman Lawrence Pilut has one goal in 25 games and is regularly ground down along the walls and overpowered in front of the net. The only player with more soft plays on this team than those three is our golden boy Rasmus Dahlin. CJ Smith has consistently failed to find space or make plays. Sobotka, Girgensons and Larsson might not score 15 this year combined. That's nearly half the roster.

But we excuse the play of the kids in our complaining because we have too much hope invested in them and we need to find hope in something. Instead, we want to trade Eichel and Reinhart and Ristolainen because we used to have hope for them and the team is still bad.

Here's an idea: let's keep our good players, develop our youngsters and bring in more good players.

This "cut them all" mentality drives me nuts.

Edited February 20, 2019 by dudacek

[matter2003]

Why does it seem the players the Sabres draft never live up to expectations but you have guys drafted 15 or 20 spots lower that do...frustrating to no end.

[klos1963]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Yup, you heard me. I think we should trade Ristolainen but not for picks or questionable prospects. I mean for either a center or different RHD. 

maybe we can match those big hauls of talent we got when we traded Kane and ROR, because that worked so well.

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

Why does it seem the players the Sabres draft never live up to expectations but you have guys drafted 15 or 20 spots lower that do...frustrating to no end.

We don't have a well run organization.

[Brawndo]

22 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Why does it seem the players the Sabres draft never live up to expectations but you have guys drafted 15 or 20 spots lower that do...frustrating to no end.

Because those players are allowed to develop properly and not rushed into the NHL long before they are ready. 

[Carmel Corn]

1 hour ago, woods-racer said:

Let's trade away one of the few team mates with any grit in their game because we a filled to the brim with a team of gritty players.

?

Risto brings something that 'analytics' fail to capture.  Let's refer to it as the 'macho' factor.  With Risto, our score is maybe 2.0 out out 10.0.  If we trade him away, we go down to -1.0.

He is the only reason why other teams do not confuse the Sabres with the Buffalo Beauts.

[Bob in Mich]

5 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Why does it seem the players the Sabres draft never live up to expectations but you have guys drafted 15 or 20 spots lower that do...frustrating to no end.

As you know, better teams draft later and so those players are often in a better position to succeed than players drafted onto terrible teams.  Perhaps some of the Sabres players wouldn't yet be playing regularly on a better team.

The latest stretch has been frustrating but most knew they weren't really a top 8 team even during the streak.  They were getting the breaks during the streak and now they are not getting those and worse they are getting more than their share of bad bounces.  I think they are better than their recent stretch of games and are likely a middle of the pack team - which is where we hoped they would be at this stage.  The course - from good to bad - to get to middling makes it tougher to take.

I don't want to see them sacrifice any future assets to try to get to the playoffs this spring, especially on D.  As much as anyone I would love to see them get hot and get into the playoffs.  The experience would be great and the fans deserve it, without a doubt.  However, I don't want any short term fixes that cost us young players or picks.  Stay the course.

[Samson's Flow]

The obvious counterpoint to this is Edmonton deciding that they needed to trade Taylor Hall, as he was still young and had value, but the team dynamic wasn't working. These 'hockey trades' only work when you can get back an equally good player back at a position of greater need, which is very rare that another team's needs & available players will line up perfectly value wise.

There is a strong likelihood that trading Risto will make this team worse and not better. I know we're all frustrated, but making trades in reaction to poor play is a path to reducing the overall talent level on your team. 

[steveoath]

I think it may have been on here, or maybe a sabres Podcast where someone suggested trying RR at wing. I think I'm on board with that.,

[Kruppstahl]

Risto has been a bad defenseman nearly his entire time on the team.  there is a perception he is good; he's not.  

He brings a little bit of grit to the lineup, but that is easily replaced if we want to.  His greater value lies as a trade subject, if you can find someone who still thinks he's a good up and coming young d-man.

 

 

[Pimlach]

12 hours ago, Ross Rhea said:

He was a -2 last night and the 2 goals against I seen when he was on the ice were not because of him but he takes the -2 for it. Sure he is responsible for some goals against but it sure does seem others don't do their job and the puck ends up in the net alot and he happens to be on the ice and take the minus for it.

 

He just turned 24, no way would I trade him away.

only 24 but also a 5 year vet.  

He is something like -23.   The next worst defensemen in +/-  rating is Scandy at  -5 .   His +/- is almost twice as bad and the next worst player (Sobotka) and that  tells us something.  It tells me he gets too much ice for sure.   I know there is more to evaluation of his play than +/- but he has been really horrible for the past 2 months.  The physical aspects of his game that we saw before Christmas are gone.  He does not move traffic from the front of the net, he does not battle, he is not aggressive on the point in the offensive zone - he did all of things better in the first 30 games than he has in the last 20+ games. 

His performance does not warrant his playing 22 -25 minutes a game.   We need a strong veteran defenseman (not Dahlin, not Pilut) to push Risto to the 3rd pairing where he can play 18 minutes or less in a controlled environment. 

Moving him to fill another hole might not be a bad idea but I would not trade him unless I knew I was getting a solid player in return.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Pimlach

[SDS]

10 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

Risto has been a bad defenseman nearly his entire time on the team.  there is a perception he is good; he's not.  

He brings a little bit of grit to the lineup, but that is easily replaced if we want to.  His greater value lies as a trade subject, if you can find someone who still thinks he's a good up and coming young d-man.

So the idea here is that the fans have a solid read and who he is as a player and the hope is that we can trick one of those big dummy general managers, that worked their way up to the top of their profession, in hopes that their scouting department and entire roster-building structure has no idea what they’re getting? 

Sounds like a solid plan. 

[Carmel Corn]

8 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

Risto has been a bad defenseman nearly his entire time on the team.  there is a perception he is good; he's not.  

He brings a little bit of grit to the lineup, but that is easily replaced if we want to.  His greater value lies as a trade subject, if you can find someone who still thinks he's a good up and coming young d-man.

 

 

My take....he has played on a bad TEAM his entire career (vs. him being a bad defenseman).   Being asked to be too much when he may be more suited to a number 3 or 4 guy vs. top 2.

"But that is easily replaced if we want to"....my response to that is "Easier said than done"

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Why do we blame our few good players for the flaws of the team?

Casey Mittelstadt and Tage Thompson have 15 goals and 15 assists combined and regularly turn the puck over. Offensive defenseman Lawrence Pilut has one goal in 25 games and is regularly ground down along the walls and overpowered in front of the net. The only player with more soft plays on this team than those three is our golden boy Rasmus Dahlin. CJ Smith has consistently failed to find space or make plays. Sobotka, Girgensons and Larsson might not score 15 this year combined. That's nearly half the roster.

But we excuse the play of the kids in our complaining because we have too much hope invested in them and we need to find hope in something. Instead, we want to trade Eichel and Reinhart and Ristolainen because we used to have hope for them and the team is still bad.

Here's an idea: let's keep our good players, develop our youngsters and bring in more good players.

This "cut them all" mentality drives me nuts.

God no....we're becoming Edmonton.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

Why does it seem the players the Sabres draft never live up to expectations but you have guys drafted 15 or 20 spots lower that do...frustrating to no end.

whose expectations? Yours, the guy in the seat next to you, your barber or...?

[matter2003]

40 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Because those players are allowed to develop properly and not rushed into the NHL long before they are ready. 

Not really...look at Barzal with the Islanders...dude had 85 points his first year after 1 year in the minors

 

[Samson's Flow]

6 minutes ago, SDS said:

So the idea here is that the fans have a solid read and who he is as a player and the hope is that we can trick one of those big dummy general managers, that worked their way up to the top of their profession, in hopes that their scouting department and entire roster-building structure has no idea what they’re getting? 

Sounds like a solid plan. 

Come on SDS, it's called the "Chiarelli Plan".