It's the scoring, stupid?

[Stoner]

It's been seven seasons since the Sabres were above 20th in the league in scoring (they're in a tie for 22nd). Eight since they cracked the top 10 (they were ninth).

Even the modest scoring teams Lindy had in the post-co captains period look like offensive juggernauts by comparison (12th, ninth and ninth in 08-09, 09-10 and 10-11). (So as to prevent Eleven's tightie whities from bunching up, the first three Ruff teams post-lockout were fifth, first and fourth in scoring.)

This franchise just doesn't draft, develop and coach players who can score. Ya know, snipe. Jack, disappointingly, is largely a wet noodle in this department. Phil earlier in the season said he wanted Jack to shoot more because he has such a good shot. Clearly the captain's confidence remains extremely low. He was face to face with the goalie last night and honestly looked like he was trying to find a way to pass the puck off, before shooting and missing. Casey had two brilliant chances in a game critical to the playoff race. Stoned. I know he's a rookie. Is it going to get better?

Seriously, we have the second leading goal scorer in the league and we're in 22nd place in scoring. (After scoring 79 goals in the first 25 games. What changed? I have a theory, but I'll shut up for now.)

#fmhl

 

[inkman]

I only got to watch the third period last night but what stood out was the lack of confidence almost across the board. Sam and Bogo seem to be fine but the rest look like a lost toddler at the mall. Looking for mommy. 

[StuckinFL]

11 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It's been seven seasons since the Sabres were above 20th in the league in scoring (they're in a tie for 22nd). Eight since they cracked the top 10 (they were ninth).

Even the modest scoring teams Lindy had in the post-co captains period look like offensive juggernauts by comparison (12th, ninth and ninth in 08-09, 09-10 and 10-11). (So as to prevent Eleven's tightie whities from bunching up, the first three Ruff teams post-lockout were fifth, first and fourth in scoring.)

This franchise just doesn't draft, develop and coach players who can score. Ya know, snipe. Jack, disappointingly, is largely a wet noodle in this department. Phil earlier in the season said he wanted Jack to shoot more because he has such a good shot. Clearly the captain's confidence remains extremely low. He was face to face with the goalie last night and honestly looked like he was trying to find a way to pass the puck off, before shooting and missing. Casey had two brilliant chances in a game critical to the playoff race. Stoned. I know he's a rookie. Is it going to get better?

Seriously, we have the second leading goal scorer in the league and we're in 22nd place in scoring. (After scoring 79 goals in the first 25 games. What changed? I have a theory, but I'll shut up for now.)

#fmhl

 

Leave em wanting more? Come on, don't leave us in suspense like that. I enjoy reading stuff like this quite often. Given the way the season has been as of late, it's the only source of joy about this team left, haha.

[7+6=13]

Imagine being a team that can't score and doesn't have any cap space.  That's what JBot received and we're almost out.  

[R_Dudley]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

It's been seven seasons since the Sabres were above 20th in the league in scoring (they're in a tie for 22nd). Eight since they cracked the top 10 (they were ninth).

Even the modest scoring teams Lindy had in the post-co captains period look like offensive juggernauts by comparison (12th, ninth and ninth in 08-09, 09-10 and 10-11). (So as to prevent Eleven's tightie whities from bunching up, the first three Ruff teams post-lockout were fifth, first and fourth in scoring.)

This franchise just doesn't draft, develop and coach players who can score. Ya know, snipe. Jack, disappointingly, is largely a wet noodle in this department. Phil earlier in the season said he wanted Jack to shoot more because he has such a good shot. Clearly the captain's confidence remains extremely low. He was face to face with the goalie last night and honestly looked like he was trying to find a way to pass the puck off, before shooting and missing. Casey had two brilliant chances in a game critical to the playoff race. Stoned. I know he's a rookie. Is it going to get better?

Seriously, we have the second leading goal scorer in the league and we're in 22nd place in scoring. (After scoring 79 goals in the first 25 games. What changed? I have a theory, but I'll shut up for now.)

#fmhl

 

Alex,  I'll take don't think that way/practice precise shooting enough for $100.  

What happened to art of a wrist shot or one timer. 

Too often looks like trying to set up perfect when a shot on net, go to the net would be good enough.

Now mind you like pool you still have to play the angles and anticipate based on practiced shot selection where the puck is more likely to end up. Also we almost always appear to be going top shelf and miss completely when getting it down low on goalie produces rebounds that work for goals.

 

That's all i got PA.  Discuss.....  

[inkman]

16 minutes ago, R_Dudley said:

Alex,  I'll take don't think that way/practice precise shooting enough for $100.  

What happened to art of a wrist shot or one timer. 

Too often looks like trying to set up perfect when a shot on net, go to the net would be good enough.

Now mind you like pool you still have to play the angles and anticipate based on practiced shot selection where the puck is more likely to end up. Also we almost always appear to be going top shelf and miss completely when getting it down low on goalie produces rebounds that work for goals.

 

That's all i got PA.  Discuss.....  

I would find it hard to believe, with the thousands of hours these guys spend on the ice per year, that somehow practicing shooting isn't in the mix. Especially the kids when they are in junior or college. Just farting around with the boys has got to involve shooting and what not. 

[Beer]

Their minds have taken over from their natural talents.  Mental weakness has once again crept in to the Sabres locker room.  This is clearly a long process.  We are amassing young talent so I will be patiently waiting.  And when our time comes, it will be glorious.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Beer

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

It's been seven seasons since the Sabres were above 20th in the league in scoring (they're in a tie for 22nd). Eight since they cracked the top 10 (they were ninth).

Even the modest scoring teams Lindy had in the post-co captains period look like offensive juggernauts by comparison (12th, ninth and ninth in 08-09, 09-10 and 10-11). (So as to prevent Eleven's tightie whities from bunching up, the first three Ruff teams post-lockout were fifth, first and fourth in scoring.)

This franchise just doesn't draft, develop and coach players who can score. Ya know, snipe. Jack, disappointingly, is largely a wet noodle in this department. Phil earlier in the season said he wanted Jack to shoot more because he has such a good shot. Clearly the captain's confidence remains extremely low. He was face to face with the goalie last night and honestly looked like he was trying to find a way to pass the puck off, before shooting and missing. Casey had two brilliant chances in a game critical to the playoff race. Stoned. I know he's a rookie. Is it going to get better?

Seriously, we have the second leading goal scorer in the league and we're in 22nd place in scoring. (After scoring 79 goals in the first 25 games. What changed? I have a theory, but I'll shut up for now.)

#fmhl

 

I major component of my new draft list will be goals per game (GPG) as scoring is a great predictor of NHL success and we badly need scorers. 

What's your theory? 

1 hour ago, 7+6=13 said:

Imagine being a team that can't score and doesn't have any cap space.  That's what JBot received and we're almost out.  

You're not wrong but with the cap basically fixed, the scoring needs major offseason addressing. 

[Tondas]

I agree more scorers would help, but the Sabres need some heart and soul players of which they have none right now.  Maybe BOGO.  Guys like Drury, Foligno, Gare, Mike Ramsey, Ruff, McKee, Dudley, Grier.  Guys that aren't necessarily friends but will have your back and hold others accountable.  Drury was known to be a hard-ass but it was no coincidence that the teams he captained were successful.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Tondas

[Scottysabres]

2 minutes ago, Tondas said:

I agree more scorers would help, but the Sabres need some heart and soul players of which they have none right now.  Maybe BOGO.  Guys like Drury, Foligno, Gare, Mike Ramsey, Ruff, McKee, Dudley, Grier.  Guys that aren't necessarily friends but will have your back and hold others accountable.  Drury was known to be a hard-ass but it was no coincidence that the teams he captained were successful.

So say we all.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Tondas said:

I agree more scorers would help, but the Sabres need some heart and soul players of which they have none right now.  Maybe BOGO.  Guys like Drury, Foligno, Gare, Mike Ramsey, Ruff, McKee, Dudley, Grier.  Guys that aren't necessarily friends but will have your back and hold others accountable.  Drury was known to be a hard-ass but it was no coincidence that the teams he captained were successful.

I think one word in here is the key, "accountable". 

[matter2003]

Maybe they miss Berglund more than we realize...the team pretty much went into the dumpster once he left

[Tondas]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think one word in here is the key, "accountable". 

Agree.  And by accountable, I don't mean criticizing in video sessions.  I mean Jack getting in ERod's face on the bench and telling him to "get his head out of his a$$ and get the frickin' puck out of the zone, not 2 feet short".  Obviously, just an example.  Not sure anyone on the team can/will do that.

[Carmel Corn]

35 minutes ago, Tondas said:

I agree more scorers would help, but the Sabres need some heart and soul players of which they have none right now.  Maybe BOGO.  Guys like Drury, Foligno, Gare, Mike Ramsey, Ruff, McKee, Dudley, Grier.  Guys that aren't necessarily friends but will have your back and hold others accountable.  Drury was known to be a hard-ass but it was no coincidence that the teams he captained were successful.

I long for those days and guys like that on the roster.  Back then, our teams had both talent, grit and they would stand up for each other.  It's been so long that we now see their son's or nephews playing now.

[#freejame]

41 minutes ago, Tondas said:

Agree.  And by accountable, I don't mean criticizing in video sessions.  I mean Jack getting in ERod's face on the bench and telling him to "get his head out of his a$$ and get the frickin' puck out of the zone, not 2 feet short".  Obviously, just an example.  Not sure anyone on the team can/will do that.

Jack is in no position to criticize right now, which makes him poor captain material.

[Tondas]

8 minutes ago, IrwinNelson said:

Jack is in no position to criticize right now, which makes him poor captain material.

Agree.  If Jack can't, then no one can.  Therein lies the problem.

[hsif]

1 hour ago, Carmel Corn said:

I long for those days and guys like that on the roster.  Back then, our teams had both talent, grit and they would stand up for each other. 

Part of it, is it's a different era. Guys used to have roots on a team. Now they're mostly short term...... earlier in the year when Baloo was physical a couple of times, I wondered "who the hell is that?" I like it..... and want to see more. Then he becomes a short term member...... trade material, and that behavior disappears.

Guys like Kaleta get labelled by the NHL to the point that they're ineffective...... different era. 

OK..... so I overlooked the talent a little.........

[7+6=13]

3 hours ago, IrwinNelson said:

Jack is in no position to criticize right now, which makes him poor captain material.

 

Hey if we don't know, let's just make stuff up.  

[PerreaultForever]

Well the simple answer is a lack of talent. A lack of goal scorers. 

Here's what I think contributes to it though. I think we'd all agree this team plays much faster this year than we thought they could. A big knock on us before was we were a slow team in a league trending towards speed. Housley has the tempo going. Hence the zone time , possession, shots. But I think a lot of these guys struggle to play at that pace and they have no time to think and just fire it in the general direction. So really, most of them are simply  not good enough to play this style effectively.

Meanwhile on the PP they slow it right down to their comfort level to make the perfect play and thus are easy to defend at that slower tempo.  

[#freejame]

9 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

 

Hey if we don't know, let's just make stuff up.  

Do you think the way Jack’s playing puts him in any position to criticize? I certainly don’t. He’s one of the biggest culprits of what’s wrong with this team. None of that is made up, unless you just haven’t been watching. 

[Doohicksie]

4 hours ago, Tondas said:

Agree.  And by accountable, I don't mean criticizing in video sessions.  I mean Jack getting in ERod's face on the bench and telling him to "get his head out of his a$$ and get the frickin' puck out of the zone, not 2 feet short".  Obviously, just an example.  Not sure anyone on the team can/will do that.

We'd be talking about how broke the locker room was if Jack was screaming at team mates on the bench.

2 hours ago, hsif said:

Part of it, is it's a different era. Guys used to have roots on a team. Now they're mostly short term......

Tell that to the VGKs.

[SDS]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

We'd be talking about how broke the locker room was if Jack was screaming at team mates on the bench.

Nobody eats their own like Buffalo. 

[Tondas]

2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

We'd be talking about how broke the locker room was if Jack was screaming at team mates on the bench.

Not if they were winning.  Then we'd be calling Jack the next Messier.

[jad1]

5 hours ago, IrwinNelson said:

Do you think the way Jack’s playing puts him in any position to criticize? I certainly don’t. He’s one of the biggest culprits of what’s wrong with this team. None of that is made up, unless you just haven’t been watching. 

He's better than a point-per-game player on a team that can't score.  He's 9 points clear of the 2nd leading scorer on the team.

Even games where this board claims he's the worst player on the ice, he still posting 2 assists.

I get he's the shiny object on the ice, but calling out the only point-per-game player the Sabres have had over the last 12 years in a thread about scoring doesn't make much sense.

The Sabres have 3 legit top 6 fowards on the team.  That's why they're not scoring.  No team can make the playoffs with one strong line and 3 weak ones.

Want to fix the Sabres scoring?  Fill out the second line with legit top six foward talent.  That's what's really wrong with this team.

 

[SABRES 0311]

27 minutes ago, jad1 said:

He's better than a point-per-game player on a team that can't score.  He's 9 points clear of the 2nd leading scorer on the team.

Even games where this board claims he's the worst player on the ice, he still posting 2 assists.

I get he's the shiny object on the ice, but calling out the only point-per-game player the Sabres have had over the last 12 years in a thread about scoring doesn't make much sense.

The Sabres have 3 legit top 6 fowards on the team.  That's why they're not scoring.  No team can make the playoffs with one strong line and 3 weak ones.

Want to fix the Sabres scoring?  Fill out the second line with legit top six foward talent.  That's what's really wrong with this team.

 

I think we all thought he would put the team on his back and carry us to the promise land. That is far from happening but in fairness he is not surrounded by the same players Sid and Ovi are. I have been as or more critical of Jack. A point of contention is his lack of shooting confidence and how he disengages from physical play.

We don't have three bad lines. Larry's line plays physical and can generate zone time. We have two lines good at what they are designed to do and two lines that don't do much of anything. We come back top the middle six problem.