U.S. Indo-Pacific Foreign Policy

[SABRES 0311]

So the point of this thread is to discuss U.S. foreign policy issues in the Indo-Pacific. I thought of doing a separate thread for each foreign region; Indo-Pacific, Africa, Middle East, Europe, and South America. The idea is to keep international issues/discussions in their own threads to make it easier for searching, research, and staying on point. While this is tied to U.S politics the potential is there for heated debate. I humbly ask for no personal attacks but also a layer of thick skin. If this is something you all are interested in please let me know. If not I will delete the discussion. 

First topic is North Korea. As POTUS readies for the second meeting KJU, new details come out of a possible diplomat exchange between the two countries. Not sure if this is testing the waters for establishing formal diplomatic arrangements. Although I have no doubt to the brutality the Kim family has put on their own people, the end state I would guess is easing of tensions to promote reunification on the peninsula. Would love to hear everyone else’s take on it. 

[LTS]

3 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

So the point of this thread is to discuss U.S. foreign policy issues in the Indo-Pacific. I thought of doing a separate thread for each foreign region; Indo-Pacific, Africa, Middle East, Europe, and South America. The idea is to keep international issues/discussions in their own threads to make it easier for searching, research, and staying on point. While this is tied to U.S politics the potential is there for heated debate. I humbly ask for no personal attacks but also a layer of thick skin. If this is something you all are interested in please let me know. If not I will delete the discussion. 

First topic is North Korea. As POTUS readies for the second meeting KJU, new details come out of a possible diplomat exchange between the two countries. Not sure if this is testing the waters for establishing formal diplomatic arrangements. Although I have no doubt to the brutality the Kim family has put on their own people, the end state I would guess is easing of tensions to promote reunification on the peninsula. Would love to hear everyone else’s take on it. 

Truthfully I would be supremely skeptical of everything that is done with North Korea, even if it weren't with this particular leadership group in the Oval Office.

I'll have to be more "wait and see" before I wade into forming opinions.

 

[SABRES 0311]

Agreed. Aside from the sketchyness of KJU there are so many third party influences. However I don’t see how war on the peninsula would benefit any involved. IMO the U.S. should take the lead on easing tensions but hand it off to South Korea. It has to be on the Korean leaders to unify. If not it will come undone.

[LGR4GM]

I don't see a path to Korea unifying in my lifetime that doesn't involve war. While I am fine with a president opening up talks with N Korea I am skeptical of Donald's intentions or abilities. 

[SABRES 0311]

War is one way to do it but not necessarily North Korea versus someone. A civil war would create a power vacuum South Korea could fill. Their people are hungry and abused. 

The meetings could simply be Trump’s way of ensuring NK doesn’t do anything to hurt his polling numbers on NK. But it’s been so long since NK seemed to highlight the news hour. I think he really wants to see this through if for no reason than to show it can be done.

[LGR4GM]

11 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

War is one way to do it but not necessarily North Korea versus someone. A civil war would create a power vacuum South Korea could fill. Their people are hungry and abused. 

The meetings could simply be Trump’s way of ensuring NK doesn’t do anything to hurt his polling numbers on NK. But it’s been so long since NK seemed to highlight the news hour. I think he really wants to see this through if for no reason than to show it can be done.

See what through? He hasn't done anything other than meet with them once. What are we seeing through? 

[SABRES 0311]

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

See what through? He hasn't done anything other than meet with them once. What are we seeing through? 

Actual in person meetings to try for stability. Not saying he will succeed but strategic patience has led to years of nuclear testing and development. As brutal as KJU is he is the leader of that country and hopefully down the road those people will know a better life. 

Yes we have only met with them once but that leads to another and another. The old way leads to war. If it comes to that so be it but the men and women who go should know we tried something. 

[SABRES 0311]

Well the news is reporting NK is rebuilding some test facilities. Time will tell if this is true but if so I wonder what KJU has to gain from it. Possibly a show of strength to his Generals. I would say his people but I don’t think he cares much about their patriotism as much as controlling their perspective on the outside world. 

I would like to see South Korea take more of a roll in these talks. Trilateral communication is the way to peaceful reunification IMO. 

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Well the news is reporting NK is rebuilding some test facilities. Time will tell if this is true but if so I wonder what KJU has to gain from it. Possibly a show of strength to his Generals. I would say his people but I don’t think he cares much about their patriotism as much as controlling their perspective on the outside world. 

I would like to see South Korea take more of a roll in these talks. Trilateral communication is the way to peaceful reunification IMO. 

I feel like the satellite images of them rebuilding kinda prove it is true. There isn't a path to peaceful reunification in Korea while one side is an authoritarian government run by 1 family. 

[SABRES 0311]

I disagree to an extent on your take on reunification. I agree having a man-child in charge makes negotiating a waste of time. Last ditch effort would be for President Moon to try and convince KJU to quit being a DBag. If not, I can see a U.S./SK backed civil uprising. Beyond that is either war or back to the laughable strategic patience. So it comes down to how KJU and his Generals view survival. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by SABRES 0311

[LGR4GM]

There is no reason for Kim to reunify, none. Therefore he won't. 

[SABRES 0311]

Maybe he hasn't been given a good enough reason yet. No way they think threats against the U.S. (greatest military in the history of the world) will forever go unanswered.

[LGR4GM]

12 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Maybe he hasn't been given a good enough reason yet. No way they think threats against the U.S. (greatest military in the history of the world) will forever go unanswered.

First, not sure how you are grading the "greatest military in the history of the world". Seems more like propaganda military worship than anything. It is interesting in this country now we treat the military members as a higher class of citizen. 

Second, why should we answer? Why should the US get in another war in a country we don't care about to depose a guy that our current president is kissing his ass? If the US is so thin skinned that threats of attacks provoke a response we aren't the "greatest military blah blah world" we are children afraid of anything. Maybe we should spend more on infrastructure and education then on the Military Industrial Complex and the US would be a safer stronger country. For the record we spend more than the next 20 some odd countries combined. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures 

Edited March 8, 2019 by LGR4GM

[SABRES 0311]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

First, not sure how you are grading the "greatest military in the history of the world". Seems more like propaganda military worship than anything. It is interesting in this country now we treat the military members as a higher class of citizen. They aren't. Teachers die in the classrooms but I don't see sports teams rushing to have them honored before games. Police die, firefighters die, and yet the only time it matters is when a military member dies because they were "protecting our freedom". Funny I thought Police, Teachers, and Firefighters were doing the same and yet, nothing for them. 

Second, why should we answer? Why should the US get in another war in a country we don't care about to depose a guy that our current president is kissing his ass? If the US is so thin skinned that threats of attacks provoke a response we aren't the "greatest military blah blah world" we are children afraid of anything. Maybe we should spend more on infrastructure and education then on the Military Industrial Complex and the US would be a safer stronger country. For the record we spend more than the next 20 some odd countries combined. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures 

1. Grading it on experience which includes working with, helping train and studying  foreign militaries. Not sure why you went off the rails on the honoring thing.

2. Lack of response resulted in rocket flyovers of Japan and threats of nuclear attack on the U.S. by a country backed by China. I don’t want war I want a peaceful resolution but sometimes that does not work.

3. You confuse corruption of the big military industrial complex with the heart of the military. Technology combined with almost 20 years of continued combat experience and something hard to quantify, fighting spirit, is what makes the U.S. military as good as it is. Free stuff and accolades was not what I was talking about. Washington doesn’t dictate how the Sergeant employs his squad or how the Corpsman saves the wounded. Maybe use something other than Wikipedia to gain insight. 

[LGR4GM]

1) Because claiming the US as the greatest military ever is subjective. How are you coming to that conclusion? What are you comparing it too? What about the Roman Military at the height of the Empire? Or are we only comparing it to the current world? If just that then yes the US Military is the current best in the world, all of history? Debatable. 

2) There was a response. The world at large placed extreme sanctions on the country. I find it interesting that the sanctions placed on NK in 2013, 2016 and even 2017 have had such an impact that the North suddenly wanted to negotiate. You mean there was not a military response. Why should I care if they threaten a Nuclear attack on the US? I thought we had the greatest military in the world, surely we have a missile defense system and could counter that.

Also, let's play this scenario out. NK launches a Ballistic Missile at the US. What would be our response. Talk about a show of force. I would guess if they weren't there already a ballistic missile sub would be diverted along with an entire fleet to rain hellfire down on NK. We might not even use a nuclear weapon in retaliation because to be honest, our air superiority would be enough to end any threat. I am skeptical of NK being that dumb. I think the bigger threat would be NK selling that tech to an adversary. Thankfully one of the awesome things about the US Military is the intelligence and cyber warfare units that really are so important today. 

3) I am not confusing it. The US spends more on the military than they need too. If we diverted 50 Billion to infrastructure the country would be stronger for it. If we diverted 50 billion to education the country would be much stronger for it.

As to what you wrote after, I know a Navy Corpsman. He was one for 25 years. He has a military ID that he wears when traveling. He has told me that the biggest thing that bothers him, is how he gets thanked by random people all the time. He talks about how they don't know what he did and in the end he was doing a job, not unlike a teacher... which he also was. If a man who served in the military finds it so uncomfortable to be thanked and in some cases fawned over then yes, I do have a problem with the hero worship factor that we see.  I would love to see the Sabres honor a WNY military member who maybe just retired after a long service or did something above and beyond. The truth is most are just doing their jobs and at least in my experience, don't want the false patriotism that people offer up. 

 

I just want to add, I respect the military members. I do not however worship them. It isn't because of a lack of respect, it is because we are reaching a point where military membership is treated as a better class of citizen, that's something our military has literally fought against. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by LGR4GM

[SABRES 0311]

http://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/AJ201902150001.html

So this may be little off topic but there may be another significant earthquake in the making for Japan. I’m not a scientist so I have input other than if you are planning a trip it might be worth some investigating. If it happens in the immediate near future I’ll update as much as possible.

[North Buffalo]

On 3/8/2019 at 9:45 AM, LGR4GM said:

1) Because claiming the US as the greatest military ever is subjective. How are you coming to that conclusion? What are you comparing it too? What about the Roman Military at the height of the Empire? Or are we only comparing it to the current world? If just that then yes the US Military is the current best in the world, all of history? Debatable. 

2) There was a response. The world at large placed extreme sanctions on the country. I find it interesting that the sanctions placed on NK in 2013, 2016 and even 2017 have had such an impact that the North suddenly wanted to negotiate. You mean there was not a military response. Why should I care if they threaten a Nuclear attack on the US? I thought we had the greatest military in the world, surely we have a missile defense system and could counter that.

Also, let's play this scenario out. NK launches a Ballistic Missile at the US. What would be our response. Talk about a show of force. I would guess if they weren't there already a ballistic missile sub would be diverted along with an entire fleet to rain hellfire down on NK. We might not even use a nuclear weapon in retaliation because to be honest, our air superiority would be enough to end any threat. I am skeptical of NK being that dumb. I think the bigger threat would be NK selling that tech to an adversary. Thankfully one of the awesome things about the US Military is the intelligence and cyber warfare units that really are so important today. 

3) I am not confusing it. The US spends more on the military than they need too. If we diverted 50 Billion to infrastructure the country would be stronger for it. If we diverted 50 billion to education the country would be much stronger for it.

As to what you wrote after, I know a Navy Corpsman. He was one for 25 years. He has a military ID that he wears when traveling. He has told me that the biggest thing that bothers him, is how he gets thanked by random people all the time. He talks about how they don't know what he did and in the end he was doing a job, not unlike a teacher... which he also was. If a man who served in the military finds it so uncomfortable to be thanked and in some cases fawned over then yes, I do have a problem with the hero worship factor that we see.  I would love to see the Sabres honor a WNY military member who maybe just retired after a long service or did something above and beyond. The truth is most are just doing their jobs and at least in my experience, don't want the false patriotism that people offer up. 

 

I just want to add, I respect the military members. I do not however worship them. It isn't because of a lack of respect, it is because we are reaching a point where military membership is treated as a better class of citizen, that's something our military has literally fought against. 

My Dad is as you describe... he was EOD Frogman.. unless he is really cagey... and he may be, I am not sure he did anything really extraordinary... he told me he was one of the first to train to disarm the first carrier based nuclear weapons... and his team pulled an unexploded Japanese Torpedo out of Pearl post WWII, but that is about it... cleared bikini atolls of unexploded ordinance because they had become hazards to shipping lanes... about it... doesn't like to talk much about it, did his job and moved on.

[SABRES 0311]

Looks like initial reports about this guy were a little off. Either way I don’t think he will be participating in discussions anytime soon.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/06/03/asia/north-korea-diplomats-intl/index.html

[SABRES 0311]

U.S. was trying to land a helicopter when this happened. Not sure who had the right of way here but endangering the aircrew is a lack of common sense.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/06/07/politics/us-russia-navy-near-collision-intl/index.html