sabills Posted May 21, 2019 Report Posted May 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, North Buffalo said: Hey understand why they dont officially retire his number, but it should not be used imo. New guy couldnt hold OJ's jock so why do it. If you're not going to retire it, which you shouldn't, why not give it out? Does everyone to wear a number have to be better than the guy who wore it before? I don't think Mario Williams was as good as Phil Hansen, should he have not been allowed to wear #90? What about Chris Kelsey? Can Casey Nelson not wear Jim Lorentz's #8? 7 minutes ago, shrader said: No one can live up to what he was as a football player and no one should want to be associated with his name due to what he did after being a player. It's probably best just to pretend the number doesn't exist. Using it again brings unwanted attention. Leaving things alone would not have gotten any attention at all. The choice seems obvious to me. Or you just use it and eventually people stop associating it with him because he hasn't played for the Bills in 40 years.
darksabre Posted May 21, 2019 Report Posted May 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, North Buffalo said: May have to ignore you Dark on this one... read on. You were not there when OJ was, guess I cant expect you to understand... His later in life stupidity notwithstanding. He killed two people. Everything he did before that is irrelevant. I expect you to understand that. 1
SDS Posted May 21, 2019 Report Posted May 21, 2019 28 minutes ago, shrader said: No one can live up to what he was as a football player and no one should want to be associated with his name due to what he did after being a player. It's probably best just to pretend the number doesn't exist. Using it again brings unwanted attention. Leaving things alone would not have gotten any attention at all. The choice seems obvious to me. The elephant in the room goes away once it is reissued a bunch of times. It's a story for a year or two and then no one will care. There are a lot of people whose concept of sports hasn't changed since the mid-70s. The 20-year olds don't give a flip about OJ Simpson the football player nor the murderer. The Bills have done the right thing, IMO. Enough time has passed and the number isn't getting retired. That anyone cares about what he did on the field prior to what he did after is mind-boggling. 1
WildCard Posted May 21, 2019 Author Report Posted May 21, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SDS said: The 20-year olds don't give a flip about OJ Simpson the football player nor the murderer. I mean I do and I'd bet Liger and, wherever the hell he is, Flagg does too Also maybe True but to be honest I don't know how hold he is at this point Edited May 21, 2019 by WildCard
SDS Posted May 21, 2019 Report Posted May 21, 2019 1 minute ago, WildCard said: I mean I do and I'd bet Liger and, wherever the hell he is, Flagg does too Also maybe True but to be honest I don't know how hold he is at this point I suspect that those that didn't grow up with him playing, nor remember the trial in the 90's have much less entrenched feelings on the issue in general. This may not be the case from person to person. Then again I could be wrong. 1
North Buffalo Posted May 21, 2019 Report Posted May 21, 2019 45 minutes ago, sabills said: If you're not going to retire it, which you shouldn't, why not give it out? Does everyone to wear a number have to be better than the guy who wore it before? I don't think Mario Williams was as good as Phil Hansen, should he have not been allowed to wear #90? What about Chris Kelsey? Can Casey Nelson not wear Jim Lorentz's #8? Or you just use it and eventually people stop associating it with him because he hasn't played for the Bills in 40 years. They were nowhere near the player OJ was... nuff said.
SDS Posted May 21, 2019 Report Posted May 21, 2019 Just now, North Buffalo said: Is the idea that watching his football highlights is going to turn on the "Ohhhhhh, he was really good at football, so who cares about two murdered people" bulb? Either you think the fates of Ron and Nicole mattered or you don't. Clearly, running with a football trumps their lives in your view. I guess that is your prerogative.
Brawndo Posted May 21, 2019 Report Posted May 21, 2019 34 minutes ago, WildCard said: I mean I do and I'd bet Liger and, wherever the hell he is, Flagg does too Also maybe True but to be honest I don't know how hold he is at this point PhD Programs rapidly age you, he is in his nineties by now 2
Taro T Posted May 21, 2019 Report Posted May 21, 2019 (edited) 59 minutes ago, SDS said: The elephant in the room goes away once it is reissued a bunch of times. It's a story for a year or two and then no one will care. There are a lot of people whose concept of sports hasn't changed since the mid-70s. The 20-year olds don't give a flip about OJ Simpson the football player nor the murderer. The Bills have done the right thing, IMO. Enough time has passed and the number isn't getting retired. That anyone cares about what he did on the field prior to what he did after is mind-boggling. Not entirely sure I agree there. There was a time he was THE best player in the game & the Bills as a (misguided IMHO) policy didn't retire #'s so they did the Ralph Wilson Special & simply locked the # away. It made sense for nobody wearing it prior to '94. Since then, by putting it back into service they're calling attention to a double murderer that did a fair amount of time for committing other felonies. Yes, after 3-4 men have worn the # there likely won't be a stigma there. But why go there? Why should the self-centered pr### get a non completely negative moment in the sun? When he finally croaks, then bring the # back into rotation. And ideally, only give it to UDFAs that stand almost no chance of making the team. Or give it to the punter. Make the number a pathetic joke of a uni, so that's how it gets remembered. My 2 cents. Edited May 21, 2019 by Taro T
North Buffalo Posted May 21, 2019 Report Posted May 21, 2019 34 minutes ago, SDS said: Is the idea that watching his football highlights is going to turn on the "Ohhhhhh, he was really good at football, so who cares about two murdered people" bulb? Either you think the fates of Ron and Nicole mattered or you don't. Clearly, running with a football trumps their lives in your view. I guess that is your prerogative. Yeh because he murdered two white cocaine addicts its a big deal. Not excusing him but really dont care about them. Not being able to differentiate between OJ the football player and OJ post football isa problem.
North Buffalo Posted May 21, 2019 Report Posted May 21, 2019 If they had been black and not rich barely anyone would have cared
WildCard Posted May 21, 2019 Author Report Posted May 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, North Buffalo said: If they had been black and not rich barely anyone would have cared Kellen Winslow had been rapping poor, even homeless, women of all denominations and people care Aaron Hernandez killed poor people of other races, people care 1
JujuFish Posted May 21, 2019 Report Posted May 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, North Buffalo said: Yeh because he murdered two white cocaine addicts its a big deal. Not excusing him but really dont care about them. Not being able to differentiate between OJ the football player and OJ post football isa problem. Why should an objectively despicable human being get any respect? 1
North Buffalo Posted May 21, 2019 Report Posted May 21, 2019 If it happened now sure, back then to a bunch of drug addicts meh
North Buffalo Posted May 21, 2019 Report Posted May 21, 2019 Bobby Hull still is, lots of hypocrisy out there Trump is still allowed to be President
Hoss Posted May 22, 2019 Report Posted May 22, 2019 4 hours ago, North Buffalo said: Fair enough, but he wasnt with the Bills then. Doesnt lessen what he did as a Bill just distract people who cant handle the duality that is OJ When you retire a number (they never actually "officially" did but they certainly weren't giving it out) you're honoring that person FOREVER. Obviously all humans have a duty to live a life operating within good moral standards (who decides what those are on a minute level is hard to say but we can all agree murder is outside any good moral standard), but when you're being honored by an organization forever then what you do the rest of your life reflects on that organization. The team should give someone his number, immediately cut that player, piss on the number 32 practice jersey, then let whoever wants to wear it wear it. Then they should drop a bomb on his spot on the Wall of Fame.
Hoss Posted May 22, 2019 Report Posted May 22, 2019 2 hours ago, North Buffalo said: If they had been black and not rich barely anyone would have cared As the most namby pamby little bitch on this website: this is a terrible take.
North Buffalo Posted May 22, 2019 Report Posted May 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, Hoss said: As the most namby pamby little bitch on this website: this is a terrible take. just saying back then stuff like this was happening Jerry Butler was notorious never made the papers. Mom was a counselor and I heard stories as a kid about lots of football players though they didnt murder anyone. And again she and Goldman were notorious drug users... Ignoring what he did for the Bills and how little the NFL helped players emotionally struggling post career given how much they made off them nuff said, but back when I grew up OJ was every kids hero... So allowing his number to be used now to me is wrong. 29 minutes ago, Hoss said: When you retire a number (they never actually "officially" did but they certainly weren't giving it out) you're honoring that person FOREVER. Obviously all humans have a duty to live a life operating within good moral standards (who decides what those are on a minute level is hard to say but we can all agree murder is outside any good moral standard), but when you're being honored by an organization forever then what you do the rest of your life reflects on that organization. The team should give someone his number, immediately cut that player, piss on the number 32 practice jersey, then let whoever wants to wear it wear it. Then they should drop a bomb on his spot on the Wall of Fame. Guess we will have to disagree.
sodbuster Posted May 22, 2019 Report Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) It's so painfully "Buffalo." He's without a doubt the best player in the history of the franchise, and has a case to be considered the best in the history of his position, and we can't even celebrate him, because he turned out to be an absolute trash can of a human being. We can't have nice things. Although, I have to admit, when Zay got the call from the Bills war room while wearing the OJ t-shirt, I couldn't help but chuckle. Edited May 22, 2019 by sodbuster 1
Taro T Posted May 22, 2019 Report Posted May 22, 2019 22 minutes ago, sodbuster said: It's so painfully "Buffalo." He's without a doubt the best player in the history of the franchise, and has a case to be considered the best in the history of his position, and we can't even celebrate him, because he turned out to be an absolute trash can of a human being. We can't have nice things. Although, I have to admit, when Zay got the call from the Bills war room while wearing the OJ t-shirt, I couldn't help but chuckle. But back in the 70's Buffalo arguably had the best player in 3 different sports all at the same time: Perreault, Simpson, & McAdoo. Kind of like in the 90's when they had Hasek, Smith, & Tavares. Seems we're 'bout due for that again. 10's, Eichel, Allen, & maybe the Bandits goalie?
Neo Posted May 22, 2019 Report Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) I don’t look at OJ as either/or. I don’t think North Buffalo does, either. I hear NB. It’s just as simplistic to say “he killed two people” as it is to say “he was the greatest”. Both are true. I’m not conflating the significance of each sentence. OJ as a topic is complicated. I wrote, once, that Mohammad Ali, the person, was complicated. They stand alone as sports and cultural phenomena. There’s not another athlete I can put into their category. Not Ruth, not Mays, not Michael, not LeBron. When “Buffalo was the armpit of the east”, The Juice lived here. He’d tell you how great it was. They’d read that in NYC, LA, Dallas and Chicago. I’m not able to feel the personal pain the victims and their families feel. I am left with disappointment, certainly a lesser burden. OJ thrilled us. As importantly, he represented us. We hitched ourselves to his star. Life’s funny. I played keep away football with him at the Thruway Exit 56 motel in the early 70s. Imagine that training camp site in simpler times. Later in life, I saw him in a nearly empty bar, in Buffalo. He was with an Oakland Raider training staff member, in town as part of a broadcast crew. Breaking a celebrity rule I have, I approached him to tell him I’d chased him through fields 25 years earlier. He asked me to sit down and we had a beer, together. I vibrated. I understand NB’s connection. Disappointed is the best I’ve got. Something meaningful to me died that June night. I don’t care happens to the number. That’s my loss. NB’s not lost that feeling. Good for him. Edited May 22, 2019 by Neo 2 2
... Posted May 22, 2019 Report Posted May 22, 2019 3 hours ago, North Buffalo said: Trump is still allowed to be President 1
Hoss Posted May 22, 2019 Report Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Neo said: I don’t look at OJ as either/or. I don’t think North Buffalo does, either. I hear NB. It’s just as simplistic to say “he killed two people” as it is to say “he was the greatest”. Both are true. I’m not conflating the significance of each sentence. OJ as a topic is complicated. I wrote, once, that Mohammad Ali, the person, was complicated. They stand alone as sports and cultural phenomena. There’s not another athlete I can put into their category. Not Ruth, not Mays, not Michael, not LeBron. When “Buffalo was the armpit of the east”, The Juice lived here. He’d tell you how great it was. They’d read that in NYC, LA, Dallas and Chicago. I’m not able to feel the personal pain the victims and their families feel. I am left with disappointment, certainly a lesser burden. OJ thrilled us. As importantly, he represented us. We hitched ourselves to his star. Life’s funny. I played keep away football with him at the Thruway Exit 56 motel in the early 70s. Imagine that training camp site in simpler times. Later in life, I saw him in a nearly empty bar, in Buffalo. He was with an Oakland Raider training staff member, in town as part of a broadcast crew. Breaking a celebrity rule I have, I approached him to tell him I’d chased him through fields 25 years earlier. He asked me to sit down and we had a beer, together. I vibrated. I understand NB’s connection. Disappointed is the best I’ve got. Something meaningful to me died that June night. I don’t care happens to the number. That’s my loss. NB’s not lost that feeling. Good for him. Promise I’m asking this for legitimate clarity’s sake: bringing Ali into this, how are you making that connection? Are you saying he and OJ are complicate for what they’ve done throughout their lives or purely for who they were as athletes in their prime? 1 hour ago, sodbuster said: It's so painfully "Buffalo." He's without a doubt the best player in the history of the franchise, and has a case to be considered the best in the history of his position, and we can't even celebrate him, because he turned out to be an absolute trash can of a human being. We can't have nice things. Although, I have to admit, when Zay got the call from the Bills war room while wearing the OJ t-shirt, I couldn't help but chuckle. Is he without a doubt the best player in Bills history or does Bruce have an argument there? Edited May 22, 2019 by Hoss
North Buffalo Posted May 22, 2019 Report Posted May 22, 2019 Just now, Hoss said: Promise I’m asking this for legitimate clarity’s sake: bringing Ali into this, how are you making that connection? Are you saying he and OJ are complicate for what they’ve done throughout their lives or purely for who they were as athletes in their prime? Not speaking for Neo, but probably both..
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