How much better would we be with ROR and Kane?

[freester]

I feel like the trades were ill advised. The returns were not great and draft picks who won’t have an impact for years. We could have easily afforded Kane and ROR. I think with a better coach and adding Skinner and Dahlin to last years team, we would be a strong contender now. 

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, freester said:

I feel like the trades were ill advised. The returns were not great and draft picks who won’t have an impact for years. We could have easily afforded Kane and ROR. I think with a better coach and adding Skinner and Dahlin to last years team, we would be a strong contender now. 

Kane was a UFA that might not have been willing to re-sign.  The Sabres are better off with Skinner.

Still not sold on the necessity to trade O'Reilly.  Expect they'd be in a playoff spot with ROR but lacking Sobotka & Thompson.  Expect they'd still have been able to get Skinner without that trade but the final piece of the package would've been something other than the 2nd they got from St. Loius.

[freester]

We need both Kane and Skinner not one or the other.  Oh well no use dwelling in the past but Botteril’s 3 biggest moves have been questionable at best.  As a GM he is in Doug Whaley territory. 

[LGR4GM]

Ror would help us. Kane isn't as good as skinner. 

Not sure how you get 3 bad moves by botterill. Ror yes but skinner was good and kane wasn't being signed. So 1 bad,  1 good,  1 whatever. 

3 minutes ago, freester said:

We need both Kane and Skinner not one or the other.  Oh well no use dwelling in the past but Botteril’s 3 biggest moves have been questionable at best.  As a GM he is in Doug Whaley territory. 

We couldn't fit Kane, Skinner, and ROR under the cap. 

[thewookie1]

Kane, we don't really need the headaches he caused. 

ROR we could really use from an on-ice angle but I also get the sense we needed to get him out of the locker room due to off ice stuff. Honestly ROR's problem may have been as simple as refusing to accept this was Eichel's team on paper. After all we know for certain ROR was angered by Landeskog getting the C in Colorado and he may have felt the same way about Eichel getting it over him. Once the Blues captain leaves via FA or trade, if it goes to another guy, do we see ROR turn into a depressed lump again?

[Gabrielor]

Kane? It's unclear. He was a hell of a player in a specific role (3rd line offensive driver), but he didn't have great chemistry in the top 6.

 

OReilly? We'd be significantly better, without a doubt. Imagine him replacing Sobotka. Also, if Thompson wasn't here, Nylander's camp would've won him a spot, and who knows what could've happened with that. Olof would likely be here too.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Gabrielor
typo

[freester]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Ror would help us. Kane isn't as good as skinner. 

Not sure how you get 3 bad moves by botterill. Ror yes but skinner was good and kane wasn't being signed. So 1 bad,  1 good,  1 whatever. 

We couldn't fit Kane, Skinner, and ROR under the cap. 

We could easily have fit all 3 under the cap. There would be no Sobotka, Sheary, and Hunwick. Hiring a first time head coach was the other critical error. 

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, freester said:

We could easily have fit all 3 under the cap. There would be no Sobotka, Sheary, and Hunwick. Hiring a first time head coach was the other critical error. 

I'll double check the numbers tomorrow but I think we would be over. 

Botterill hiring Housley currently looks very questionable 

Edited February 11, 2019 by LGR4GM

[SDS]

16 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'll double check the numbers tomorrow but I think we would be over. 

Botterill hiring Housley currently looks very questionable 

Assuming Housley is the disaster you claim, is he a static entity unable to get better at his job after two years?

[GASabresIUFAN]

1st Skinner > Kane  no if's ands or buts.  

2nd ROR - trading ROR was "dumb" on paper.  We have missed a 2nd line center all season.  That said we don't know why he was traded.  Contract, Attitude, Leadership are three areas in which ROR may have come up wanting and got him traded.  Mitts is a fine talent, but won't be on ROR's level any time soon.

3rd PH hiring.  We swaped ROR and Kane for Skinner and Mittelstadt.  Not exactly an even swap.  However, like it or not the team is better this season then last.  The Defense transition into offense is hugely improved and is creating significantly more offense from the back end.  So if PH's first year, he had no roster to work with and the team failed behind the rookie coach.  Jbot added only Dahlin on the back end from last year's failed squad and gave PH an offense without a real 2nd line center.  Yet the team is improved.  Sorry while PH hasn't done a miraculous job he is still fighting with one hand behind his back roster wise and is getting improved results.

Remember most of this team including all the major young players, including Skinner have never experienced winning hockey.   We have 7 skaters with playoff experience 2 of which can't get out of the pressbox (Hunwick and Baloo). All told we only have 7 skaters with playoff experience for a total of 295 games.  Pommers is the leader with 81 followed by Sheary with 57.  Learning how to win is hard and this team still hasn't, but they are gaining on it.

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[Kruppstahl]

Kane is a terrible hockey player. 

ROR is a great hockey player, but had no interest in playing in Buffalo, apparently.

So there you go...we need to look forward, not back.

 

 

 

 

[PerreaultForever]

Good god really? We'd be way worse and talking lose for Hughes.

ROR plays ROR style hockey, and that is not what we play. We have more of a "team" now with a better attitude, better spirit, and we are much much faster. Get over it, JBot did the right thing. Should have traded Kane sooner to get more.

[Skibum]

Look at last year's record and that should tell you what you want to know. 

[jame]

If we had ROR we’d be talking about the battle for home ice and a Toronto/Buffalo playoff series 

[LGR4GM]

Looks like we are about 600k over with ROR and Kane added back and taking out Hunwick, Sheary, and Sobs. So it would be possible but that cap margin would be razor thin for callups. We would also have to make a some trade or waive someone to free up that remaining 600k. 

[freester]

I agree with not dwelling on past mistakes.  However the returns on the deals for Kane and ROR have been mediocre.  Going forward  I would like to see Skinner resigned but hopefully the money won't be insane.  I would like to unload Scandella, Beauleu, Pomminstein and Hunwick at the deadline for picks. I'm not expecting much of a return.  I'm worried that very little else will be done and we will go into next year with esssentially the same players.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, freester said:

I agree with not dwelling on past mistakes.  However the returns on the deals for Kane and ROR have been mediocre.  Going forward  I would like to see Skinner resigned but hopefully the money won't be insane.  I would like to unload Scandella, Beauleu, Pomminstein and Hunwick at the deadline for picks. I'm not expecting much of a return.  I'm worried that very little else will be done and we will go into next year with esssentially the same players.

We haven't even seen the key piece of the Kane deal yet. Getting a first for a rental is pretty solid. That said I wanted more. I think if you want to argue about a mediocre trade though the one to look at is ROR. There was virtually no one in hell that trading ROR wouldn't hurt the lineup the following year. I think only getting Thompson and a 1st for him was a mistake. I think this was a blunder on Botterill's part because Sobotka was never that good and Berglund was a massive contract dump that we thankfully are out from under. 

[freester]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We haven't even seen the key piece of the Kane deal yet. Getting a first for a rental is pretty solid. That said I wanted more. I think if you want to argue about a mediocre trade though the one to look at is ROR. There was virtually no one in hell that trading ROR wouldn't hurt the lineup the following year. I think only getting Thompson and a 1st for him was a mistake. I think this was a blunder on Botterill's part because Sobotka was never that good and Berglund was a massive contract dump that we thankfully are out from under. 

I would like to dump Sobotka's contract as well.  I'm not expecting the first round picks from the trades to have any significant  impact on the Sabres for 3-4 years.  I do not think JB will make a major trade either in the offseason or at the deadline. Hopeful  some guys from Rochester can have an impact next year or JB can find another rental like Skinner in the offseason.

[LGR4GM]

Those picks may not help for 3-4 years but that is why it is vital we have them. 3-4 years ago we are in 2015. Imagine in 2015 if we had not wasted first round picks. Our prospect pool is weak and if we want to contend for more than a very small window we will need talent in the pipeline and it is talent we currently do not have in that pipeline. 

Edited February 11, 2019 by LGR4GM

[jame]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Those picks may not help for 3-4 years but that is why it is vital we have them. 3-4 years ago we are in 2015. Imagine in 2015 if we had not wasted first round picks. Our prospect pool is weak and if we want to contend for more than a very small window we will need talent in the pipeline and it is talent we currently do not have in that pipeline. 

Our prospect pool is not weaK... it’s a poor perception based on a couple high 1st rounders making the NHL within 12 months of being drafted.

 

think of it like this... you’ve stated how important these multiple 1st rounders are to building our pipeline... what if both of the 2019 1sts jump right to the NHL? Do we still have a weak pipeline?

Edited February 11, 2019 by jame

[Gatorman0519]

I think we have a long ways to go.  If we are truly building through the draft.... 2 more years until we make the playoffs 

[Doohicksie]

10 hours ago, freester said:

We need both Kane and Skinner not one or the other.  Oh well no use dwelling in the past but Botteril’s 3 biggest moves have been questionable at best.  As a GM he is in Doug Whaley territory. 

But we couldn't make  Kane sign with us, and if we had paid him what SJ did, our cap structure would be borked.

[freester]

I think drafting Nylander really set us back.. We absolutely need another top 6 winger and unfortunately he has shown very little. I don't JB trades our first round picks but I would not be shocked if he moved someone like Bogo or Risto or Nylander or Ghule.

Just now, Doohickie said:

But we couldn't make  Kane sign with us, and if we had paid him what SJ did, our cap structure would be borked.

I think in a year Kane's contract will look like a deal. 

[Doohicksie]

I think rushing prospects like Nylander to the NHL has been part of the Sabres problem the last few years.  JBot has made it clear that his philosophy is to build a team from the farm up.  Nylander looked good in camp and almost made the team.  I wouldn't pass judgment on him until we see him play a significant portion of a season at NHL level.  It was between him and Thompson and after Tage was scratched so many times everyone though Nylander should have been picked, but in retrospect I think Thompson was the right choice.

The Sabres are sitting $3.2M under the cap.  If we had Kane on the roster for $7M, where would the $3.8M in necessary cap space come from?

12 minutes ago, freester said:

I think in a year Kane's contract will look like a deal. 

That's the way contracts work.  For a top player they look ridiculous at first, but as the cap increases they appear to be more affordable.  It wouldn't have helped us this year though.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Doohickie

[Drunkard]

I think the team would definitely be better if we kept O'Reilly and Kane. Kane I'm not so upset about losing thanks to landing Skinner but I wish FXGMJB would get off his kick of trading quarters for a couple nickels and a slug. This horse has been beaten ad nauseam but I would have rather gotten a solid near ready prospect for him then a first round pick and Danny O'Regan. That guy will probably never play more than a dozen games for the Sabres and the pick won't contribute till 2022 or so. That means the return for Kane will yield absolutely zero help to the Sabres until Dahlin's and Mittelstadt's ELCs are both over.