GDT - Carolina @ Sabres - February 7, 2019 - 7:00 PM EST - MSG-B; FS-SE

[darksabre]

5 minutes ago, IrwinNelson said:

 

Two games of Ullmark starting and everyone has already forgotten about Hutton? He hasn’t been good in months and Phil continued to give him starts. He’s easy responsible for a softie or two a game and has most definitely lost us games. 

I think Hutton has played worse than Ullmark and Housley should be faulted for that.

But to say that the goalies are the problem because they players are scoring lots of goals is a flawed statement by Sam. They wouldn't need to score so many goals if they played anything resembling defense.

[MODO Hockey]

10 minutes ago, IrwinNelson said:

 

Two games of Ullmark starting and everyone has already forgotten about Hutton? He hasn’t been good in months and Phil continued to give him starts. He’s easy responsible for a softie or two a game and has most definitely lost us games. 

Hutton has been crap for many games now, together with defence but theres a big difference between Hutton and Ullmark.
Looking at this game, he couldnt do sh1t on 4 of the goals, it makes me ashamed watching how our defence and our backchecking looks. 

Utterly pathetic how Sabres played defence.

Edited February 8, 2019 by MODO Hockey

[dudacek]

Reinhart, as reported by Hoppe:

“Too many mistakes. We can’t expect to win hockey games 6-5, 7-6. We need more from our goalies and we need it from the start of hockey games. It’s frustrating.”

“We’ve all got to realize that we’ve got guys who are capable of making plays when we need to offensively. And with that being said, we need to have more respect for our own end. We need to all come back and pick up guys.

“If your shift calls for defending their guys, their top guys, that’s what you’re expected to do and we need more out of everyone in that regard.”

Looks to me like he was saying we need more saves, more secondary scoring and more defensive effort.

Anyone disagree?

[#freejame]

6 minutes ago, MODO Hockey said:

Hutton has been crap for many games now, together with defence but theres a big difference between Hutton and Ullmark.
Looking at this game, he couldnt do sh1t on 4 of the goals, it makes me ashamed watching how our defence and our backchecking looks. 

Utterly pathetic how Sabres played defence.

I agree that last night was hardly on Ullmark and the defense was atrocious, but his points still stands. It should have came after a different game, but it is what it is. 

 

10 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I think Hutton has played worse than Ullmark and Housley should be faulted for that.

But to say that the goalies are the problem because they players are scoring lots of goals is a flawed statement by Sam. They wouldn't need to score so many goals if they played anything resembling defense.

Agreed. This was by far the worst defensive game of the year for the forwards, and much of the same garbage from the D that we’ve seen most of the year.

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Reinhart, as reported by Hoppe:

“Too many mistakes. We can’t expect to win hockey games 6-5, 7-6. We need more from our goalies and we need it from the start of hockey games. It’s frustrating.”

“We’ve all got to realize that we’ve got guys who are capable of making plays when we need to offensively. And with that being said, we need to have more respect for our own end. We need to all come back and pick up guys.

“If your shift calls for defending their guys, their top guys, that’s what you’re expected to do and we need more out of everyone in that regard.”

Looks to me like he was saying we need more saves, more secondary scoring and more defensive effort.

Anyone disagree?

Anyone else think the bold is a shot at Eichel’s play of late?

[darksabre]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Reinhart, as reported by Hoppe:

“Too many mistakes. We can’t expect to win hockey games 6-5, 7-6. We need more from our goalies and we need it from the start of hockey games. It’s frustrating.”

“We’ve all got to realize that we’ve got guys who are capable of making plays when we need to offensively. And with that being said, we need to have more respect for our own end. We need to all come back and pick up guys.

“If your shift calls for defending their guys, their top guys, that’s what you’re expected to do and we need more out of everyone in that regard.”

Looks to me like he was saying we need more saves, more secondary scoring and more defensive effort.

Anyone disagree?

I agree with most of what he says but he's in error in making the comments about goaltending last night. Perhaps in a game where the goalie is much more at fault I would be letting that comment slide. But last night wasn't the night for it. It comes off as navel gazing. "Well, we're scoring, look at my stats, so come on goalies!"

Edited February 8, 2019 by darksabre

[#freejame]

4 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I agree with most of what he says but he's in error in making the comments about goaltending last night. Perhaps in a game where the goalie is much more at fault I would be letting that comment slide. But last night wasn't the night for it. It comes off as navel gazing. "Well, we're scoring, look at my stats, so come on goalies!"

Last night wasn’t the night for it to be said, but it’s hard to say it after winning in Columbus, which probably would have been the right time. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

11 minutes ago, IrwinNelson said:

Anyone else think the bold is a shot at Eichel’s play of late?

I don't think so.  I believe it was directed at everyone, including himself.

7 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I agree with most of what he says but he's in error in making the comments about goaltending last night. Perhaps in a game where the goalie is much more at fault I would be letting that comment slide. But last night wasn't the night for it. It comes off as navel gazing. "Well, we're scoring, look at my stats, so come on goalies!"

A specific player, or position, should never be called out publicly.  Blame everyone if need be.

That said, @dudacek has a very good take on the goalie part of it.  Samson calling for more key saves like earlier in the year.  That is better, but Sam should have been sure to say that, which he did not.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

I agree with most of what he says but he's in error in making the comments about goaltending last night. Perhaps in a game where the goalie is much more at fault I would be letting that comment slide. But last night wasn't the night for it.

Generally agree.

That said, while I don't blame Ullmark for the loss last night, saves need to be made. He allowed six on 30 shots.

People are pointing to his great performance in Dallas. His stats in his 7 other most recent appearances:

CAR: GA: 6 SP .800

MIN: GA: 4 SP .911

CHI: GA: 2 SP .714

VAN: GA: 4 SP .826

CAL: GA: 3 SP .909

EDM: GA: 2 SP .846

TBL: GA: 5 SP .833

Those are nowhere near NHL numbers. Hutton's numbers are worse. We need more from our goaltenders.

 

[MODO Hockey]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Generally agree.

That said, while I don't blame Ullmark for the loss last night, saves need to be made. He allowed six on 30 shots.

People are pointing to his great performance in Dallas. His stats in his 7 other most recent appearances:

CAR: GA: 6 SP .800

MIN: GA: 4 SP .911

CHI: GA: 2 SP .714

VAN: GA: 4 SP .826

CAL: GA: 3 SP .909

EDM: GA: 2 SP .846

TBL: GA: 5 SP .833

Those are nowhere near NHL numbers. Hutton's numbers are worse. We need more from our goaltenders.

 

 

Focusing on only those numbers, i agree with you. 

But both you and me know this isnt really the truth behind these numbers, allthough i expect way more from Ullmark than what he has proven this season, probably more than anyone on this forum even if most of us expect "more". I know he can do it, and unfortunatly its a matter of when, when it actually means it needs to be now if that make any sense.

With that beeing said our defence is utterly sad to watch and most golies could not do sh1t about that.

[darksabre]

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Generally agree.

That said, while I don't blame Ullmark for the loss last night, saves need to be made. He allowed six on 30 shots.

People are pointing to his great performance in Dallas. His stats in his 7 other most recent appearances:

CAR: GA: 6 SP .800

MIN: GA: 4 SP .911

CHI: GA: 2 SP .714

VAN: GA: 4 SP .826

CAL: GA: 3 SP .909

EDM: GA: 2 SP .846

TBL: GA: 5 SP .833

Those are nowhere near NHL numbers. Hutton's numbers are worse. We need more from our goaltenders.

 

I really don't think it's a fair ask given the poor defensive zone play from the rest of the team. At least in Ullmark's case.

Ullmark would literally have to time travel to make saves on some of the shot opportunities his teammates have been allowing.

He would have to be a mutant. Or Hasek.

[nfreeman]

3 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

A former Sabre who's black, speaking on the team broadcast in the larger context of discrimination in the game, spoke about what he sees as inherent racism in the president's immigration policy. There's no ban on discussing this here. Was it a great debate? No. Should it have stopped when action resumed? Probably. But it's not a problem to be solved, and no one is leaving because of it. Puh-lease. 

No.

After a ridiculous amount of psychodrama, a compromise was reached on this, which is the confining of political discussion to the politics club.  That's where it goes.  And while you may disagree, you might also respect the fact that numerous posters have stated, including in this thread, that they want to talk hockey in the hockey threads and not have them polluted with political poo-flinging.

[SABRES 0311]

9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

No.

After a ridiculous amount of psychodrama, a compromise was reached on this, which is the confining of political discussion to the politics club.  That's where it goes.  And while you may disagree, you might also respect the fact that numerous posters have stated, including in this thread, that they want to talk hockey in the hockey threads and not have them polluted with political poo-flinging.

Anyone getting publically called out for bringing it into the discussion? It happened a couple GDTs ago. Maybe I missed it.

[7+6=13]

13 hours ago, darksabre said:

I don't know what Sam is thinking with this. 

That he said it or that he's wrong. 

[nfreeman]

Separately:  to return to the discussion about the PP -- the Sabres had only 2 of them.  In the 1st one, the 1st unit was unable to gain the zone and set up.  In the 2nd one, Eichel was again set up at the right point, not the left half-wall.  So I think the approach has changed.

[woods-racer]

It's almost like we are missing a good 2 way center to shore up our 2nd or third line.

We are 0 for 2 in the last few years in getting AND being able to keep them when we find one.

[Samson's Flow]

4 hours ago, darksabre said:

PA, I can't get to "the goaltending is lacking" when I watch our forwards constantly blow their coverages in the D zone. This team is a defensive train wreck right now. It's like no one knows what they're supposed to be doing. 

I'm with you on this one - I can't really put it on the goalies too much when there are regularly wide open players within 10 ft of the net for tab ins or uncontested shots.

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I think players got too reliant on Hutton and Ullmark standing on their heads to mask their defensive deficiencies. 

And just to be clear, when I say our defense sucks, I'm taking about all five skaters.

I suspect they heard from Phil to be aggressive and focus on the transition/attacking game, and as a result are not at all focused on the defensive end. I see numerous players coasting around in our own zone or not willing to tie up (or even follow) their man when they move to high-danger areas.

Last night Jack played like broken controller Ovechkin for most of the time in his own zone. Terrible.

15 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

It's almost like we are missing a good 2 way center to shore up our 2nd or third line.

We are 0 for 2 in the last few years in getting AND being able to keep them when we find one.

I'd like a 2C as much as the next guy, but adding one player is not going to fix the team effort and commitment to defense.

Last night was a effort and desire deficiency, not a lack of personnel imo.

[darksabre]

Just now, Samson's Flow said:

I'm with you on this one - I can't really put it on the goalies too much when there are regularly wide open players within 10 ft of the net for tab ins or uncontested shots.

I suspect they heard from Phil to be aggressive and focus on the transition/attacking game, and as a result are not at all focused on the defensive end. I see numerous players coasting around in our own zone or not willing to tie up (or even follow) their man when they move to high-danger areas.

Last night Jack played like broken controller Ovechkin for most of the time in his own zone. Terrible.

They really just look like they don't know what they're supposed to be doing. They get into the d zone and it turns into Keystone Cops. Defensemen move out of position because the forwards aren't picking up players higher in the zone, then the forwards get all out of place because they're trying and failing to cover up for the defensemen (if they even recognize that they need to cover up). It's a real damn mess.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, IrwinNelson said:

 

Two games of Ullmark starting and everyone has already forgotten about Hutton? He hasn’t been good in months and Phil continued to give him starts. He’s easy responsible for a softie or two a game and has most definitely lost us games. 

I would disagree. He's won us far more games than lost. On the other hand I can point to DOZENS of turnovers every game that are prime scoring chances.

[Samson's Flow]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

They really just look like they don't know what they're supposed to be doing. They get into the d zone and it turns into Keystone Cops. Defensemen move out of position because the forwards aren't picking up players higher in the zone, then the forwards get all out of place because they're trying and failing to cover up for the defensemen (if they even recognize that they need to cover up). It's a real damn mess.

You probably better articulated what I was getting at. We're so focused on what to do once he get the puck, that it tends to look like a pee-wee soccer game when we don't have the puck. There's no structure as to how we are supposed to defend in our zone, so nobody looks like they know who they are supposed to cover or where they're supposed to be.

[#freejame]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I would disagree. He's won us far more games than lost. On the other hand I can point to DOZENS of turnovers every game that are prime scoring chances.

I agree he won us games, especially early on, but that doesn’t mean that he hasn’t cost us games since then. A prime example is the first hurricanes game (using this because it’s one of the few distinguishable games since I was there). I wouldn’t disagree with your statement on turnovers either, but I think it’s easy to discern bad goaltending from bad defense most games.

[Stoner]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

No.

After a ridiculous amount of psychodrama, a compromise was reached on this, which is the confining of political discussion to the politics club.  That's where it goes.  And while you may disagree, you might also respect the fact that numerous posters have stated, including in this thread, that they want to talk hockey in the hockey threads and not have them polluted with political poo-flinging.

I can't find @SDS' post on the matter, but I am fairly certain he sanctioned certain political talk relating to hockey/sports. You kind of have to. An obvious example was Phil's wife running for Senate and the implications on his status of her winning (or losing). Terry once had political types to the arena to edumacate them on fracking. Are these discussions really not valid on a Sabres message board?

Edited February 8, 2019 by PASabreFan

[Kruppstahl]

So Reinhart is throwing the net minding under the bus now?

Jesus, Sam.  Wake up boy!

Go lift some weights and put on a few pounds of muscle and shut your mouth.

 

 

 

[nfreeman]

25 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I can't find @SDS' post on the matter, but I am fairly certain he sanctioned certain political talk relating to hockey/sports. You kind of have to. An obvious example was Phil's wife running for Senate and the implications on his status of her winning (or losing). Terry once had political types to the arena to edumacate them on fracking. Are these discussions really not valid on a Sabres message board?

I think it did come up in the context you are referring to, i.e. Howie's wife, and in a thread about whether Howie was on the hot seat.  However, the conversation was limited to the question of whether her political allegiance helped Howie's job security -- not the merits of the underlying views -- and even then people objected to it not being in the politics club.  There was certainly no poopstorm relating to various political issues like we had in this GDT last night.  That kind of stuff belongs in the politics club.

 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I would disagree. He's won us far more games than lost. On the other hand I can point to DOZENS of turnovers every game that are prime scoring chances.

Geez man, your steadfast stance of "It's not the goalie's the fault" has become as inevitable as me defending Sam Reinhart and Callaway's bridge-jumping routine ?

[7+6=13]

2 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

So Reinhart is throwing the net minding under the bus now?

Jesus, Sam.  Wake up boy!

Go lift some weights and put on a few pounds of muscle and shut your mouth.

 

 

 

Sam gets knocked off his skates a lot.  It's strange because he's not exactly a little person.