Phil Housley should be fired.

[Weave]

21 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Completely agree -- I just meant not as big a star as someone like Julia Roberts or Jennifer Lawrence -- so I wouldn't necessarily recognize her old photos.

She was a pinup girl at that point the equivalent of Farrah.  Damned near an icon.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

24 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Completely agree -- I just meant not as big a star as someone like Julia Roberts or Jennifer Lawrence -- so I wouldn't necessarily recognize her old photos.

Where is that winkie-winkie thingie when you really need it?  Or that cool dude in shades thingie?

[nfreeman]

10 minutes ago, Weave said:

She was a pinup girl at that point the equivalent of Farrah.  Damned near an icon.

At the time of that photo?  I beg to differ.  That looks like pre-Baywatch and pre-Tommy Lee, which IIRC was when she got famous.

Of course, her cinematic peak was Borat...

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

At the time of that photo?  I beg to differ.  That looks like pre-Baywatch and pre-Tommy Lee, which IIRC was when she got famous.

Of course, her cinematic peak was Borat...

Nah, the only thing she got from Tommy Lee was Hepatitis C 

[...]

Okay...now?

[Zamboni]

Yea. It’s over. Now the clock ticks ....

[Billznut]

I don’t trust Botterill or Pegula not to put too much stock in these last two games. I still say PH stays, but I want him gone. These two wins meant nothing. Doesn’t excuse the last 3-4 months. 

[Andrew Amerk]

Who’s making the ultimate decision on this? 

Terry? Botts? Kim? Ted Black? LaFontaine? Beane? That guy we used to talk about with the mafia-sounding name?

[Zamboni]

2 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Who’s making the ultimate decision on this? 

Terry? Botts? Kim? Ted Black? LaFontaine? Beane? That guy we used to talk about with the mafia-sounding name?

[Andrew Amerk]

2 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

I actually think I’d prolly trust the decision with Sabre Tooth. 

[dudacek]

While I believe the fact the Sabres finished about 10 points behind their expected point total, collapsed tremendously in the second half of the season, and require a sacrifice to pacify the restless fanbase would and should lead to the firing of Phil Housley 99 times out of 100, I have a degree of masochistic interest in the idea of Botterill keeping him on.

It’s the sort of decision that only an extraordinarily steadfast/stubborn individual would make and would speak volumes as to what Botterill is about. And I love stories where individuals successfully defy the howling mob. 

I can think of two recent examples of where teams made similar decisions and wound up being correct, at least relatively speaking.

Last year, at this time, the entire hockey world was calling for the head of Marc Bergevin after the Canadiens had plunged 32 points in the standings and looked like they were poised to stay there; loaded with a roster that appeared full of mediocre players and bloated veteran contracts, a captain they were about to run out of town, and pipeline bereft of prospects. But instead of an extended stay at the bottom, they bounced back 23 points and stayed in playoff hunt until the last weekend of the season thanks a couple shrewd trades, and Price and Weber rediscovering their games. Meanwhile, their prospect pipeline suddenly appears bursting.

A better example is Colorado, where the team hired rookie Jared Bednar to replace Patrick Roy. Despite a talented group of youngsters, Bednar’s first season was a complete flop, the worst in  nearly 20 years. The team dropped 33 points in the standings and finished with just 48 points. And they followed that up by dropping from 1 to 4 in the draft lottery. Nevertheless, he was kept on and led the team to a 47-point improvement and a playoff appearance the following year, and he is back in the playoffs again this year.

This is not an argument for keeping Housley. I see no obvious reason for doing that and several for letting him go. It’s just an observation that the conventional wisdom is not always right.

Edited April 7, 2019 by dudacek

[jsb]

If HCPH doesn't lose his job, I'm not much for conspiracy theories but I may be in to listening to this was a pre-planned, unannounced TANK to get another high draft pick. And if this is the case, I'm all in on firing both Botts and Housley if they're not considerably better than the drivel they were in January thru March. This was nothing short of a complete collapse for the entire rest of the season after the winning streak. PH seemed completely clueless in stopping the carnage. If you want to call it a sacrifice to the masses go ahead but he's gotta go.

 

On a side note, is Flagg coming back?? Is anybody in contact with him, that may know?

[Eleven]

18 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I'm supposed to recognize a B-list celebrity's 30-year-old, pre-plastic-enhancement photos?  Really?

Man card revocation officially under protest.

I didn't recognize her, either, and she looks a lot better pre-enhancement.

11 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

I actually think I’d prolly trust the decision with Sabre Tooth. 

***** Sabretooth.

14 hours ago, Weave said:

She was a pinup girl at that point the equivalent of Farrah.  Damned near an icon.

No, she wasn't.

[LGR4GM]

Bet on rules not exceptions. The coaching staff must change. 

[North Buffalo]

Phil's biggest problem was constant line juggling and his second was being wed to St Louis players in trade.  TT needed Chris Taylor's fixing stuff.  The lack of line consistency doomed Mitts and contributed to winter swoon.  That being said Mitts continued to develop imo and should be much improved next season.  Goaltending needs to be better.  Especially in up tempo game.  Botts adding Montour's and Borgen's emergence is great.  If Sabres can add a center plus draft a big winger/center should be on their way.  I am hopeful Aspund and UPL end up with big club next end of year and Laaksonen and Samuelson play some with Rochester.  Still unsure about Risto, but I think a backend of McCabe, Montour, Dahlin, Borgen, Pilut, and either Risto, Bogo (one should not be here next year) with Nelson as a 7 is decent. Scandella needs to go... Hunwick as 8th.  Risto as others have said is highest value for a trade for 2nd line center.

Problem is Housley game time line decisions and inconsistent line juggling.  CJ Smith should be up on checking 3rd line or 4th.

Looking forward to seeing draft class and Pekar's development.  

 

[Wyldnwoody44]

I would be shocked if Phil is fired.... Just a gut feel with no real basis. 

I don't agree with it, this team underachieved significantly and I wish I knew why, but, I feel they're committed to this for at least the first half of next season. 

[New Guy]

Bob Bougher is the first to go....will we follow suit shortly?

[North Buffalo]

5 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I would be shocked if Phil is fired.... Just a gut feel with no real basis. 

I don't agree with it, this team underachieved significantly and I wish I knew why, but, I feel they're committed to this for at least the first half of next season. 

I tend to agree but the only way he stays is if he can learn from his mistakes and work on getting guys to be consistent, one way is to keep lines together and keep developing young players.

[darksabre]

5 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I would be shocked if Phil is fired.... Just a gut feel with no real basis. 

I don't agree with it, this team underachieved significantly and I wish I knew why, but, I feel they're committed to this for at least the first half of next season. 

I suspect that, if you put it to Botterill, he would tell you that this team's failures this season were a combination of his trades not working out as hoped, his younger players not being as ready as they needed to be, and his veteran players struggling to find consistency. I think he would place the blame on himself and the players, exempting Housley. 

If he fires Housley then we can infer that he doesn't blame himself or the players as much. 

Choose your own adventure as to where the blame lies. 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I suspect that, if you put it to Botterill, he would tell you that this team's failures this season were a combination of his trades not working out as hoped, his younger players not being as ready as they needed to be, and his veteran players struggling to find consistency. I think he would place the blame on himself and the players, exempting Housley. 

If he fires Housley then we can infer that he doesn't blame himself or the players as much. 

Choose your own adventure as to where the blame lies. 

I think this is absolutely correct.

Most GMs would fire Housley anyway out of business necessity and self-preservation. And that’s why I’d respect the hell out of Botterill as a man and a leader for keeping him, even while losing sleep over it as a Sabre fan.

[darksabre]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think this is absolutely correct.

Most GMs would fire Housley anyway out of business necessity and self-preservation. And that’s why I’d respect the hell out of Botterill as a man and a leader for keeping him, even while losing sleep over it as a Sabre fan.

My feeling is that, given Pegula's comments recently, I suspect that Botterill has already kneeled before Terry and accepted responsibility for this situation, even if it's not entirely his fault. He's likely a better communicator than GMTM was and that will allow him more leash with ownership than GMTM had.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

I suspect that, if you put it to Botterill, he would tell you that this team's failures this season were a combination of his trades not working out as hoped, his younger players not being as ready as they needed to be, and his veteran players struggling to find consistency. I think he would place the blame on himself and the players, exempting Housley. 

If he fires Housley then we can infer that he doesn't blame himself or the players as much. 

Choose your own adventure as to where the blame lies. 

It's good to see you around here a bit again.

I truly believe that JBOT takes a lot of the responsibility (no offense, but I don't like the word blame here, as some of the trades and player development, as you mentioned, not working out as hoped is no one's fault really) for the way the season ended.  For this reason alone I do not think that Housley will be fired.  Nor do I think that he should be.

[Pimlach]

The season is a complete disappointment, just like the past 8 or more. What hurts the most is the collapse after a great start.  Remember the fun we had winning games on a regular basis?    The collapse is on the players, Phil, and Bots.

First the players, a lot of accountability here.    We have a young core (Eichel, Reinhart, Dahlin, Mitts) , maybe too young still, yet other teams seems to turn it around faster.  Then look at the vets -  Skinner and Bogo have zero playoff experience.  Okposo, Pommer, Scandella, Sobotka did not perform. None of them should be back.   Risto, McCabe, Girgs, Larsson are now veterans that have never known winning. Do they fold when things get tough?   Sheary and Wilson come from winning programs but are role players.  Then there is Hutton (a backup) and an inconsistent rookie goalie  - this tandem was mediocre at best, except during the early winning months.  Look at what Binington did to wake up St Louis     

Bots put this crew together and stood by to watch season degrade so is accountable.   Phil and his staff failed to motivate these guys and fix the malaise they got into in January.  We watched this season erode for over 3 long months.  The coaches are accountable too.  

On any other team Phil would be gone.  Easiest thing to do is flush the coach.  Given we have a first time GM, hiring a rookie coach and working for star struck owners I don’t expect any change in GM or HC.  As long as they “communicate” with Terry and respect Kim they will keep their jobs. 

Looking at all the change we have had in 5he a Pegula era, and considering Terry and Kim’s inability to find a qualified veteran Hockey President to run things, doing nothing may be the best course right now.  

Basically im not confident we will hire anybody better.  

[TrueBlueGED]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

While I believe the fact the Sabres finished about 10 points behind their expected point total, collapsed tremendously in the second half of the season, and require a sacrifice to pacify the restless fanbase would and should lead to the firing of Phil Housley 99 times out of 100, I have a degree of masochistic interest in the idea of Botterill keeping him on.

It’s the sort of decision that only an extraordinarily steadfast/stubborn individual would make and would speak volumes as to what Botterill is about. And I love stories where individuals successfully defy the howling mob. 

I can think of two recent examples of where teams made similar decisions and wound up being correct, at least relatively speaking.

Last year, at this time, the entire hockey world was calling for the head of Marc Bergevin after the Canadiens had plunged 32 points in the standings and looked like they were poised to stay there; loaded with a roster that appeared full of mediocre players and bloated veteran contracts, a captain they were about to run out of town, and pipeline bereft of prospects. But instead of an extended stay at the bottom, they bounced back 23 points and stayed in playoff hunt until the last weekend of the season thanks a couple shrewd trades, and Price and Weber rediscovering their games. Meanwhile, their prospect pipeline suddenly appears bursting.

A better example is Colorado, where the team hired rookie Jared Bednar to replace Patrick Roy. Despite a talented group of youngsters, Bednar’s first season was a complete flop, the worst in  nearly 20 years. The team dropped 33 points in the standings and finished with just 48 points. And they followed that up by dropping from 1 to 4 in the draft lottery. Nevertheless, he was kept on and led the team to a 47-point improvement and a playoff appearance the following year, and he is back in the playoffs again this year.

This is not an argument for keeping Housley. I see no obvious reason for doing that and several for letting him go. It’s just an observation that the conventional wisdom is not always right.

Depends why he'd be doing it, no? Sticking with Housley in the face of pressure because he genuinely believes in him would be one thing. Sticking with Housley out of spite, essentially, is quite another. 

I also don't think the Bednar comparison is especially apt. He had one disastrous season in Colorado before turning it around. Housley has had two.

30 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

It's good to see you around here a bit again.

I truly believe that JBOT takes a lot of the responsibility (no offense, but I don't like the word blame here, as some of the trades and player development, as you mentioned, not working out as hoped is no one's fault really) for the way the season ended.  For this reason alone I do not think that Housley will be fired.  Nor do I think that he should be.

Sure it is. If message board posters can question Mittlestadt's readiness to assume the 2C role, and correctly judge Sobotka and Berglund to be useless cap dumps, why can't the GM? Hope isn't a plan.

[North Buffalo]

And the Phil era is over... thread can be closed.