Phil Housley should be fired.

[JJFIVEOH]

2 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Please NOOOOOO.  In this case, the third time is NOT the charm!

He took two separate Sabres teams with no talent, one deep in the playoffs and the other entertaining to watch. 

Housley has a team with talent and it's going nowhere. He is soft. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, JJFIVEOH said:

Like Ted Nolan?

No.  Not really like Ted.  More tactical and someone more current in NHL. 

 

[...]

Who is responsible for locker room culture? Phil? Jack? JBotts? Did Phil see what KO was talking about in that Bove Tweet and do nothing about it? 

[Eleven]

5 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The word out of Chicago is he does better with a roster that is complete or near complete and would not be the best choice for teams who have a large contingent of developing players

The words out of Saint Louis and Colorado would be the same.  He's another Bylsma; I've said this before.  Give him a picture-perfect roster, and sure, he'll go far.

The impatience in this thread is amazing.  Housley is making mistakes, no doubt.  He's starting the wrong players, he's not making sensible lineup changes, and he doesn't know what a timeout is.

But this season NEVER was supposed to be about playoffs; it was and is supposed to be about progress.  And so far, it is.  Lots of you all got dreamy during the streak.  

Those of you who were here after '07 know exactly where the "fire the coach" chant gets you:  nowhere.  We read it for six years on this board, and, like I always wrote, the problem was the roster, not the coach.  We're four new coaches in now.  The last coach to make the playoffs remains the one whom everyone wanted to run out of town (and who eventually was run out of town).  But now, the roster is a little different.  It is young, and improving.  Mittelstadt is a rookie, FFS.  Everyone is screaming about how we don't have a true 2C, and half of those people loved it when the Sabs drafted him.  Let him grow!  Ullmark is a first-year "real" NHL-er, too.  Dahilin, rook.  Thompson, near-rook.

Also, HOUSLEY, near-rook.  Think that through.

I don't want to be in this endless "fire the coach" turnstile/time machine.

You all have no suggestions as to anyone better, we've been through enough coaches, and nothing changed.  Drop it already.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Eleven
comma

[Thorner]

12 minutes ago, ... said:

Who is responsible for locker room culture? Phil? Jack? JBotts? Did Phil see what KO was talking about in that Bove Tweet and do nothing about it? 

The win/loss record. 

[Eleven]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The win/loss record. 

But I thought that was a product of locker room culture?  Or is it team identity? Or the coach? Or the menu at Chef's last weekend? Or whatever?

IT IS THE ROSTER.  GEEZ. THEY ARE YOUNG AND LEARNING.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Eleven

[Thorner]

8 minutes ago, Eleven said:

The words out of Saint Louis and Colorado would be the same.  He's another Bylsma; I've said this before.  Give him a picture-perfect roster, and sure, he'll go far.

The impatience in this thread is amazing.  Housley is making mistakes, no doubt.  He's starting the wrong players, he's not making sensible lineup changes, and he doesn't know what a timeout is.

But this season NEVER was supposed to be about playoffs; it was and is supposed to be about progress.  And so far, it is.  Lots of you all got dreamy during the streak.  

Those of you who were here after '07 know exactly where the "fire the coach" chant gets you:  nowhere.  We read it for six years on this board, and, like I always wrote, the problem was the roster, not the coach.  We're four new coaches in now.  The last coach to make the playoffs remains the one whom everyone wanted to run out of town (and who eventually was run out of town).  But now, the roster is a little different.  It is young, and improving.  Mittelstadt is a rookie, FFS.  Everyone is screaming about how we don't have a true 2C, and half of those people loved it when the Sabs drafted him.  Let him grow!  Ullmark is a first-year "real" NHL-er, too.  Dahilin, rook.  Thompson, near-rook.

Also, HOUSLEY, near-rook.  Think that through.

I don't want to be in this endless "fire the coach" turnstile/time machine.

You all have no suggestions as to anyone better, we've been through enough coaches, and nothing changed.  Drop it already.

If the win streak is responsible for raised expectations, isn't it also contributing to the narrative that there's been progress? Or, at least, enough progress? This team is not very much different to recent seasons, save those that involved tanking. 

They have not made enough progress as things currently stand, without a strong finish to the season. It's definitely concerning. The sum of this team's parts may not be playoff quality, but it's better than what we are seeing.

[Eleven]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

If the win streak is responsible for raised expectations, isn't it also contributing to the narrative that there's been progress? Or, at least, enough progress? This team is not very much different to recent seasons, save those that involved tanking. 

They have not made enough progress as things currently stand, without a strong finish to the season. It's definitely concerning. The sum of this team's parts may not be playoff quality, but it's better than what we are seeing.

I am going to end up putting my head into my bedroom wall, I swear.  And that's problematic, because it's brick (the wall, not my head).  Thorny, you know me better than to take one or two sentences out of a seven or whatever paragraph post and try to twist it.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Eleven

[jame]

12 minutes ago, Eleven said:

The words out of Saint Louis and Colorado would be the same.  He's another Bylsma; I've said this before.  Give him a picture-perfect roster, and sure, he'll go far.

The impatience in this thread is amazing.  Housley is making mistakes, no doubt.  He's starting the wrong players, he's not making sensible lineup changes, and he doesn't know what a timeout is.

But this season NEVER was supposed to be about playoffs; it was and is supposed to be about progress.  And so far, it is.  Lots of you all got dreamy during the streak.  

Those of you who were here after '07 know exactly where the "fire the coach" chant gets you:  nowhere.  We read it for six years on this board, and, like I always wrote, the problem was the roster, not the coach.  We're four new coaches in now.  The last coach to make the playoffs remains the one whom everyone wanted to run out of town (and who eventually was run out of town).  But now, the roster is a little different.  It is young, and improving.  Mittelstadt is a rookie, FFS.  Everyone is screaming about how we don't have a true 2C, and half of those people loved it when the Sabs drafted him.  Let him grow!  Ullmark is a first-year "real" NHL-er, too.  Dahilin, rook.  Thompson, near-rook.

Also, HOUSLEY, near-rook.  Think that through.

I don't want to be in this endless "fire the coach" turnstile/time machine.

You all have no suggestions as to anyone better, we've been through enough coaches, and nothing changed.  Drop it already.

The streak masks that there is no progress... we are on a full season 63 point pace since the winning streak...

and good lord no... Quenneville is absolutely nothing like Bylsma... 

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I am going to end up putting my head into my bedroom wall, I swear.  And that's problematic, because it's brick.  Thorny, you know me better than to take one or two sentences out of a seven or whatever paragraph post and try to twist it.

I disagree with this sentiment outright. I take one or two sentences out because I agree with the rest of what you wrote. 

I don't see what the problem is with addressing a specific portion of what you said while venturing my own thoughts on the matter. If you want to call that twisting...to each their own I suppose. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

I really don't think a coaching change is the way to go. The structure to build on is in place. The style of play (when executed) is perfect for the direction the league has gone in and will continue to go in. It's a recipe to build on and throwing all that away for a new guy, a new system, etc etc would just bring back all the question marks and no telling how long that would take.

The players simply have to be held accountable and we have to realize we were never as good as people wanted to believe during the win streak. We are a little better this year than last year when we were the worst team in hockey. We are on the right path, but obviously it has not moved as far forward as we would like. I have learned to lower my expectations over the years so I don't want another starting over until we actually take a step backwards.

Good drafts and FA's, we simply need more talent.

Edited February 3, 2019 by PerreaultForever

[jame]

There’s really no point in firing Housley. The next coach is Taylor regardless, so may as well let him continue developing the next wave of talent in Rochester.

the real problem is Botterill... 

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

If the win streak is responsible for raised expectations, isn't it also contributing to the narrative that there's been progress? Or, at least, enough progress? This team is not very much different to recent seasons, save those that involved tanking. 

They have not made enough progress as things currently stand, without a strong finish to the season. It's definitely concerning. The sum of this team's parts may not be playoff quality, but it's better than what we are seeing.

Thing is, with the win streak they were basically playing the way they should through each 10 game segment to make the playoffs.  They've gone 12, 14, 12, 10, 8 through each of the 5 - 10 game segments to date.  That 10 game win streak wasn't all that noticeable looking at the games by blocks & flip 1 win & 1 loss in either the 2nd or 3rd segment and things look fine & there's no huge outlier in people's minds.  They were exactly on pace 1/2 way through the season, but only taking 8 points this last segment is troubling.  So is the downward trend since segment 2.

They aren't getting better as the season goes along, though with their youth they should be at least hanging on pace if not improving.  In the 'no Schlitz Sherlock' department, that regression is where the frustration with the team in general & Housley specifically is coming from.  But kind of curious if Hutton is still dealing with the after effects of his injury.  If he is, the coach has to know, and needs to bump the other guy up in the pecking order.

Am still remaining agnostic about Housley being punted (really was one of my least favorite Sabres & still not sure that that doesn't color how his results are evaluated) and agree that he shouldn't get canned without having a true upgrade in mind / lined up.  But darn near every single year at least 1 guy that truly is an upgrade becomes available.  (Gallant, Julien, & Trotz in the last 2 seasons ottomh)  Unless he ups his game, when the next 1 gets cut loose, so should Phil.

[Thorner]

15 minutes ago, jame said:

There’s really no point in firing Housley. The next coach is Taylor regardless, so may as well let him continue developing the next wave of talent in Rochester.

the real problem is Botterill... 

Botterill is only a problem depending on how much stock you put in immediate results, what kind of timeline one uses. 

He's far too vanilla to be a problem long term. I'm confident his measured and balanced approach, combined with his supposed cap acumen will lead to a form of sustainable success at some point. To what degree is up for debate, and we'll have to wait and see, but the presence of a generational defenseman like Dahlin will, I think, be invaluable in this case. 

He's going to draft and draft and develop and develop until the draft percentages bare themselves out inevitably over time, hopefully aided a tad by good scouting, continually cycling JAG players like Elie and Hunwick through the lineup to fill the (hopefully deceasing over time) placeholder spots, until enough of those draft picks hit. 

Whether it's advisable to potentially go nearly a decade, or even potentially a full decade, between playoff appearances, squandering away some of Jack's best years (and Reinhart's cheap years) in the process, is up for debate. 

But he has a mandate to sell the future. Let's hope it actually comes.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Thorny

[Carmel Corn]

It may not be all Housley's fault, but can we agree he needs to be held more accountable and should not get a free pass.  I hold him accountable for such things as: 

1. Struggling powerplay (that was better before he arrived)

2. Poor 2nd period play (which suggests to me that opposing coaches are making adjustments while the Sabres are not)

3. Giving up quick goals after we score (our team seems unprepared to play defense after we score)

I'll stop there as far as my complaints.  The streak was fun, but I would like to think enough people here understood it was an anomaly that was made possible by some opportunistic goal scoring and steadier goaltending.  It's a long season and even the best teams go through ups and downs.

[Eleven]

58 minutes ago, jame said:

The streak masks that there is no progress... we are on a full season 63 point pace since the winning streak...

and good lord no... Quenneville is absolutely nothing like Bylsma... 

Don't leave the winning streak out of the overall record unless you also want to leave losing streaks out of it.

Tell me, other than follicle production, how Quenneville is superior to Bylsma.  Have you looked at the rosters with which Q underachieved in Saint Louis?  He needed a freaking all-star team to do anything.

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

It may not be all Housley's fault, but can we agree he needs to be held more accountable and should not get a free pass.  I hold him accountable for such things as: 

1. Struggling powerplay (that was better before he arrived)

2. Poor 2nd period play (which suggests to me that opposing coaches are making adjustments while the Sabres are not)

3. Giving up quick goals after we score (our team seems unprepared to play defense after we score)

I'll stop there as far as my complaints.  The streak was fun, but I would like to think enough people here understood it was an anomaly that was made possible by some opportunistic goal scoring and steadier goaltending.  It's a long season and even the best teams go through ups and downs.

If the 2nd period failure was due to coaching adjustments, that should continue into the 3rd, right?

Seems more to be an effect of not caring about match ups so that when the bench is farther away & tougher to change when pinned in their own end they end up getting scored on before getting fresh legs.

[jame]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Botterill is only a problem depending on how much stock you put in immediate results, what kind of timeline one uses. 

He's far too vanilla to be a problem long term. I'm confident his measured and balanced approach, combined with his supposed cap acumen will lead to a form of sustainable success at some point. To what degree is up for debate, and we'll have to wait and see, but the presence of a generational defenseman like Dahlin will, I think, be invaluable in this case. 

He's going to draft and draft and develop and develop until the draft percentages bare themselves out inevitably over time, hopefully aided a tad by good scouting, continually cycling JAG players like Elie and Hunwick through the lineup to fill the (hopefully deceasing over time) placeholder spots, until enough of those draft picks hit. 

Whether it's advisable to potentially go nearly a decade, or even potentially a full decade, between playoff appearances, squandering away some of Jack's best years (and Reinhart's cheap years) in the process, is up for debate. 

But he has a mandate to sell the future. Let's hope it actually comes.

 

there’s nothing vanilla about trading 5 years of 1C play for futures...

[jame]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

Don't leave the winning streak out of the overall record unless you also want to leave losing streaks out of it.

Tell me, other than follicle production, how Quenneville is superior to Bylsma.  Have you looked at the rosters with which Q underachieved in Saint Louis?  He needed a freaking all-star team to do anything.

If you have to ask, it can’t be explained to you.

and yes, cups are won with all star rosters. Which again brings us back to the idiocy of Botts (trading an all star)

Edited February 3, 2019 by jame

[Eleven]

7 hours ago, jame said:

If you have to ask, it can’t be explained to you.

What you mean to say is that you can't explain it.

 

   7 hours ago,  jame said: 

and yes, cups are won with all star rosters. Which again brings us back to the idiocy of Botts (trading an all star)

Stick to the point. There is a Botterill thread for Botterill things.

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Eleven

[Eleven]

10 hours ago, Thorny said:

I disagree with this sentiment outright. I take one or two sentences out because I agree with the rest of what you wrote. 

I don't see what the problem is with addressing a specific portion of what you said while venturing my own thoughts on the matter. If you want to call that twisting...to each their own I suppose. 

Fair enough.  Retracted!

[TrueBlueGED]

14 hours ago, JJFIVEOH said:

He took two separate Sabres teams with no talent, one deep in the playoffs and the other entertaining to watch. 

Housley has a team with talent and it's going nowhere. He is soft. 

You honestly enjoyed watching the tank team? Different strokes for different folks indeed... 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

You honestly enjoyed watching the tank team? Different strokes for different folks indeed... 

In fairness to him, if he was referring to relative entertainment, that team was immensely entertaining compared to the team iced by Rolston that October.  Of course, having teeth drilled while the anesthetic doesn't work was entertaining relative to the team iced by Rolston that October.

If the comment was referring to the actual entertainment value, yeah, probably don't want to watch any movies he recommends. :p

[LGR4GM]

Fine, I will hold off on the firing of Phil Housley and give him some time. The roster is flawed and is still coming together. I do like the idea of his system. Several of you have helped to walk me back, but I am staying in my Housley hole until he proves me wrong... and man do I hope he proves me wrong. 

[LGR4GM]

The level of incompetence it takes to reach this conclusion by a head coach is astounding. Just a reminder that the game Hutton was he had .892 sv% and allowed 4 goals... Every decision, every word out of his mouth, pushes me closer and closer to giving up on Housley.

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by LGR4GM