Phil Housley should be fired.

[Cheektorado]

The games are unwatchable.

HCPH has to go.

[dudacek]

8 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

That's exactly right.

If you have blown 5 tires in 8 years and you blow another one, you still put a new tire on the car.

But then, if you're intelligent, you re-visit your tire purchasing behavior--you think about why you are blowing so many tires--you think about what makes a good tire and that maybe it's time to buy better ones.

So first we we tried the experienced, market-friendly, heart-and-soul underdog, then we moved on to the big-ticket big-name proven Stanley Cup winning veteran, now it’s the highly touted buzz-of-the-market progressive assistant.

What model have we missed?

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So first we we tried the experienced, market-friendly, heart-and-soul underdog, then we moved on to the big-ticket big-name proven Stanley Cup winning veteran, now it’s the highly touted buzz-of-the-market progressive assistant.

What model have we missed?

The re-tread coach who hasn’t won guano.

[dudacek]

So, Yeo, Hakstol, Stevens, Boucher... (it is remarkable how frequently coach firings fail, isn’t it?)

Whats Ron Ron Rolston up to?

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 hours ago, jsb said:

Well to start, Eichel now is better than he was, Reinhart is better than he was, Skinner is better than Kane, Dahlin is better than anybody on the left, Risto has more experience than before, Bogosian has played more games, and as bad as you want to say these guys are playing, Scandella, B/P/N and Montour are better than Franson, Falk, Gorges and Kulikov. 

I have to go back to work now, otherwise I'd elaborate further.

Do you have any stats that prove the roster as a whole is better significantly or is this an eye test thingie? 

Just as an example.....why do you say Bogo is better now, because he played more games? And if he is better, isn't that an argument in Housley's favor?

Also, 2yrs ago our top 6 point producers included one D-man (Risto)...this yr it includes two D-men (Dahlin/ Risto).

Beyond the top line minimal improvement, I think jumps in production will be difficult to find as a whole, especially with the "Golden Child" (ROR) trade.

It's the things you're not saying that I question most....Is Mitts a better 2C than ROR? How much better is Sheary over Moulson(numbers almost exactly the same with 9 games left) and why? Gorges wasn't the best, but he played with more heart and likely blocked more shots than our current D combined, how do you measure? Is it because he was slow? Is Sobotka better in the left dot than ROR was? Is Mitts a better truck driver than ROR when drinking? Is goaltending better now? Lehner/ Nilsson were BOTH over .920 sv%....Hutton is an appropriate .911(emergency) and Ullie is .906.

As far as Eichel being better, how much better do you consider him? Two yrs ago his pts/g  projected over 82gms would've given him 76pts.(this year it would be 88pts). Are 12pts good enough over 2yrs to really say he's better?

So many questions....so few real answers.

 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

Wait.... wasn't someone harassed for using a woman's name in an offensive manner? The name Phyliss come to mind.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 hours ago, Zamboni said:

I’m not talking about record. I’m talking about personnel.

If you want 2016-2017 Lehner and Nilsson over 2018-2019 Hutton and Ullmark ... that right there is worth a laugh.

If you want 2016-2017 Gorges and Franson over 2018-2019 Montour and Dahlin ... that right there is worth a laugh.

If you want 2016-2017 Cal O’Reilly and Nic Deslauriers over 2018-2019 Mitts and Sheary ... that right there is worth a laugh.

If you want 2016-2017 kulikov and Babtiste over 2018-2019 Scandella and Rodriguez ... that right right there is worth a laugh.

If you want 2016-2017 Ennis over 2018-2019 Skinner ... that right there is worth a laugh.

 

i can go on, but it’s obvious to me the personnel itself have been upgraded from two years ago and even last year. It’s in a smaller part, a few holes still need to be upgraded. But by and large it’s the coaching staff. It’s just so bad ..

 

Where do you get this crap? Your post is more worthy of a laugh to say the least.

Nobody said any of those things except maybe the goalies.

Let's be more realistic.....

Would you rather have your goalies sv% at .923/.920 or....906/.911? This of course is minus off ice issues because we're discussing talent. What's Lehner doing these days?

Would you rather have Gorges/ Franson or Beuliue/Scandella.....to me its a toss up with different styles and different levels of suffering.

Would you rather have Mitts/Sheary on line 2 or Moulson / ROR.

Would you rather have E-rod or Brian Gionta? Baptiste/Bailey/ Foligno or Sobotka?

But I'll take Skinner over Kane. Being realistic....that's Evander.

 

[Stoner]

43 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So first we we tried the experienced, market-friendly, heart-and-soul underdog, then we moved on to the big-ticket big-name proven Stanley Cup winning veteran, now it’s the highly touted buzz-of-the-market progressive assistant.

What model have we missed?

The local cardiac-ischemed octogenarian HOFer seeking to correct the historical record in the late autumn (like, December 18) of his life?

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

The local cardiac-ischemed octogenarian HOFer seeking to correct the historical record in the late autumn (like, December 18) of his life?

We haven't tried the Torts type yet have we?

2 hours ago, SDS said:

Thanks for taking the time. I was going to type the same thing but sometimes typing out the painfully obvious it is well… Painful. 

That you have to go back to work?

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

The local cardiac-ischemed octogenarian HOFer seeking to correct the historical record in the late autumn (like, December 18) of his life?

I don't think coaching the Sabres would be good for your physical or mental health.

[...]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

The local cardiac-ischemed octogenarian HOFer seeking to correct the historical record in the late autumn (like, December 18) of his life?

I wonder if anyone has even asked him if he's interested in coaching again? (Assuming you mean Bowman).

[GASabresIUFAN]

Is Bashill on the hot seat in Detroit?  He has been there for 3 years of failure. 

[JJFIVEOH]

2 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Wait.... wasn't someone harassed for using a woman's name in an offensive manner? The name Phyliss come to mind.

Wasn't it the guy who runs this board? Oh wait, he wasn't harassed for that. For some reason he can get away with it. 

[PerreaultForever]

18 hours ago, ... said:

Anyone here know with some credible certainty how long it would take to impose a system and style on a team that's fairly young on one hand, and transient on the other?  I mean, if the coach is complaining they're not playing the system, when he complains, then it must take more than a few weeks to get right, agree?

I guess it depends on how complicated the system is (and how slow to grasp it your players are). If it's radically different from what was there (and this is) the first thing you face is players on the roster who are either not suited for it or simply don't want to play it (which might be the case for ROR). So you have to move them out and bring in a different type. once that is done you can teach/impose the system better and the younger your roster is the easier it should be to implement it. 

I think that fits with what we've done to some extent. Clean the roster out as much as possible year 1, impose the system year 2, and by extension the results should be there for year 3. This is perhaps the plan, and this is what I give Housley. I expect success next year and if we still suck I'm all for firing anyone by Xmas at the latest. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I guess it depends on how complicated the system is (and how slow to grasp it your players are). If it's radically different from what was there (and this is) the first thing you face is players on the roster who are either not suited for it or simply don't want to play it (which might be the case for ROR). So you have to move them out and bring in a different type. once that is done you can teach/impose the system better and the younger your roster is the easier it should be to implement it. 

I think that fits with what we've done to some extent. Clean the roster out as much as possible year 1, impose the system year 2, and by extension the results should be there for year 3. This is perhaps the plan, and this is what I give Housley. I expect success next year and if we still suck I'm all for firing anyone by Xmas at the latest. 

I think you're correct for the most part but, in our case I think next year is a full year for Housley because of a few reasons.

1.Not enough of this team was "cleared out" and still needs players added that "fit" the system. Sobotka, KO, Pommer, Scandella and maybe a couple others come to mind. 

2. The bolded.....I assume you are implying that younger players would be better students and "teachable". Not everyone is going to have the same learning curve and the youngsters on this team have demonstrated that. Mitts is placed in probably one of the hardest positions to learn and seems to be progressing slowly. There's also TT and Dahlin, while I think Rasmus will be fine I still have doubts about TT. Would love to see TT get stronger and maybe develop some mean streak in him.

3. I think (hope) there's going to be more clearing out over the summer plus the draft and the promotion of players from Amerks before we hit the next season hard with the system. I think next season is your "year 2" with the roster more complete and another year for players like Mitts/TT/Dahlin to learn along with the additions of any new players through promotion, FA, or trades that happen between now and then.

Thanks for your input and I agree with your assessment, we just differ on the timeline. Our difference could be that I feel we are dealing with a rookie GM and a rookie HC, so I'm willing to give them that little bit of leeway. I've (we) have waited this long for results and I would rather it be done right and put this all behind us for years to come. I would rather end up like Detroit (25yrs of playoffs) for the next 25yrs than up and down like FLA or Avs.  For these reasons I push your timeline by 1yr.

EDIT: actually only pushing the timeline by 1/2yr....based on the willingness of others to allow until December.

Edited March 22, 2019 by MakeSabresGrr8Again

[GASabresIUFAN]

I’d like to take this discussion another direction.  If you fire PH who are you going to get to replace him? As @dudacek mentioned above, what style coach haven’t we tried?  I’m going to take this a step further and ask if you fire PH 2 years into Jbot’s rebuild who are you going to bring in that would guarantee you better results?  The reason I say guarantee is because we’ve tried the proven winner (DB), we’ve tried the up and comer (PH), we had the experienced leader (LR) and the motivator (TN) and all have failed or people think are currently failing. 

The best and only logical candidate out there is JQ.  He won 3 Cups with 4 HOFers and other excellent players.  I mentioned earlier, he had 7 players on all three team and another 5 players who were on 2 Cup winners.  

Would he really do better with our roster? I’m no so sure.  He coached very good teams in both Stl and Col with very good rosters before going to Chicago.  He was fired from both teams because the teams weren’t progressing in the playoffs.  His best team in Stl earned 114 pts, and featured HOFers like Pronger, MacInnis, plus stars like Turgeon, Richer, Demitra, Handzus, and even a young Jochen Hecht.  They got bounced in the 1st rd.

There is a possibility he’d do a better job, but it’s far from certain.  Even Scotty Bowman failed in Buffalo. Hitch has also failed to make an impact in Edm.  In fact his record is stlightly worse then the previous coach and their roster is remarkably similar to ours. 

After JQ the rest are retreads with worse resumes.

If Jbot is going to fire PH and not get the best available candidate, then his next option would be to promote an AHL coach like Taylor or Sheldon Keefe.  Is this really an upgrade on PH? 

Changing the coach to appease an angry fan base doesn’t seem to be a very smart long term strategy.

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’d like to take this discussion another direction.  As @dudacek mentioned above, what style coach haven’t we tried?  I’m going to take this a step further and ask if you fire PH 2 years into Jbot’s rebuild who are you going to bring in that would guarantee you better results?  The reason I say guarantee is because we’ve tried the proven winner (DB), we’ve tried the up and comer (PH), we had the experienced leader (LR) and the motivator (TN) and all have failed or people think are currently failing.

The best candidate out there is JQ.  He won 3 Cups with 4 HOFers and other excellent players.  I mentioned earlier, he had 7 players on all three team and another 5 players who were on 2 Cup winners.  

Would he really do better with our roster? I’m no so sure.  He coached very good teams in both Stl and Col with very good rosters before going to Chicago.  He has fired from both teams because the teams weren’t progressing in the playoffs.  His best team in Stl earned 114 pts, and featured HOFers like Pronger, MacInnis, plus stars like Turgeon, Richer, Demitra, Handzus, and even a young Jochen Hecht.  They got bounced in 7 games. 

There is a possibility he’d do a better job, but it’s far from certain.  Even Scotty Bowman failed in Buffalo. Hitch has also failed to make an impact in Edm.  In fact his record is stlightly worse then the previous coach and their roster is remarkably similar to ours. 

After JQ the rest our retreads with worse resumes.

If Jbot is going to fire PH and not get the best available candidate, then his next option would be to promote an AHL coach like Taylor or Sheldon Keefe.  Is this really an upgrade on PH? 

 

I might add that some people are willing to give PH until December next year. 

Outside the fact that if there is regression, I wouldn't fire him mid season for reason of "not enough" progress. The quality and quantity of your options aren't likely to be in your favor as much as at the end of season. Your options are likely someone whom has just been fired or someone whom has been unemployed for a time and in either case very few to pick from. If your looking for a coach like a Trotz, waiting until the season ends and finding one that either "fits your system",or maybe a disciplinarian, or a teacher, or any combo of those traits, would be my guess for having a choice of the coach you want/need.

This is why I say PH should have one more year(which is actually only 1/2 year more than people are willing to give him). I can suffer another six months if need be to get this thing right.

[Billznut]

29 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I might add that some people are willing to give PH until December next year. 

Outside the fact that if there is regression, I wouldn't fire him mid season for reason of "not enough" progress. The quality and quantity of your options aren't likely to be in your favor as much as at the end of season. Your options are likely someone whom has just been fired or someone whom has been unemployed for a time and in either case very few to pick from. If your looking for a coach like a Trotz, waiting until the season ends and finding one that either "fits your system",or maybe a disciplinarian, or a teacher, or any combo of those traits, would be my guess for having a choice of the coach you want/need.

This is why I say PH should have one more year(which is actually only 1/2 year more than people are willing to give him). I can suffer another six months if need be to get this thing right.

OR we could suffer for another 8 years or more because this franchise can’t get anything right. I’d say this is far more likely. 

[Ottosmagic13]

41 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I can suffer another six months if need be to get this thing right.

I'm certainly fed up with PH and some of his decisions. I might seriously lose it if he utters the phrase "desired result" one more time. 

However, I need them to get it right. If that takes to December of next year, so be it. I don't want to be having this same discussion in two/three years about coach X. 

I want to be discussing who we might face in the first round, or if we will have home ice advantage around this time next year. 

[eman]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’d like to take this discussion another direction.  If you fire PH who are you going to get to replace him? As @dudacek mentioned above, what style coach haven’t we tried?  I’m going to take this a step further and ask if you fire PH 2 years into Jbot’s rebuild who are you going to bring in that would guarantee you better results?  The reason I say guarantee is because we’ve tried the proven winner (DB), we’ve tried the up and comer (PH), we had the experienced leader (LR) and the motivator (TN) and all have failed or people think are currently failing. 

The best and only logical candidate out there is JQ.  He won 3 Cups with 4 HOFers and other excellent players.  I mentioned earlier, he had 7 players on all three team and another 5 players who were on 2 Cup winners.  

Would he really do better with our roster? I’m no so sure.  He coached very good teams in both Stl and Col with very good rosters before going to Chicago.  He was fired from both teams because the teams weren’t progressing in the playoffs.  His best team in Stl earned 114 pts, and featured HOFers like Pronger, MacInnis, plus stars like Turgeon, Richer, Demitra, Handzus, and even a young Jochen Hecht.  They got bounced in the 1st rd.

There is a possibility he’d do a better job, but it’s far from certain.  Even Scotty Bowman failed in Buffalo. Hitch has also failed to make an impact in Edm.  In fact his record is stlightly worse then the previous coach and their roster is remarkably similar to ours. 

After JQ the rest are retreads with worse resumes.

If Jbot is going to fire PH and not get the best available candidate, then his next option would be to promote an AHL coach like Taylor or Sheldon Keefe.  Is this really an upgrade on PH? 

Changing the coach to appease an angry fan base doesn’t seem to be a very smart long term strategy.

 

I wouldn't say Nolan was given the chance on his second tour here. He was place holding during tank time. (and I think he knew it and needed the cash) They got rid of both goalies under Teddy (Enroth and Neuvirth- especially after they started to play well and got the Sabres some points that management didn't want, as Buffalo started to move up in the standings- they had to stop that ASAP!)  We'll see where DB lands eventually- if anywhere in the NHL- perhaps as an assistant, I am doubtful as a head coach. Cup win or not. 

[Cheektorado]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’d like to take this discussion another direction.  If you fire PH who are you going to get to replace him? As @dudacek mentioned above, what style coach haven’t we tried?  I’m going to take this a step further and ask if you fire PH 2 years into Jbot’s rebuild who are you going to bring in that would guarantee you better results?  The reason I say guarantee is because we’ve tried the proven winner (DB), we’ve tried the up and comer (PH), we had the experienced leader (LR) and the motivator (TN) and all have failed or people think are currently failing. 

The best and only logical candidate out there is JQ.  He won 3 Cups with 4 HOFers and other excellent players.  I mentioned earlier, he had 7 players on all three team and another 5 players who were on 2 Cup winners.  

Would he really do better with our roster? I’m no so sure.  He coached very good teams in both Stl and Col with very good rosters before going to Chicago.  He was fired from both teams because the teams weren’t progressing in the playoffs.  His best team in Stl earned 114 pts, and featured HOFers like Pronger, MacInnis, plus stars like Turgeon, Richer, Demitra, Handzus, and even a young Jochen Hecht.  They got bounced in the 1st rd.

There is a possibility he’d do a better job, but it’s far from certain.  Even Scotty Bowman failed in Buffalo. Hitch has also failed to make an impact in Edm.  In fact his record is stlightly worse then the previous coach and their roster is remarkably similar to ours. 

After JQ the rest are retreads with worse resumes.

If Jbot is going to fire PH and not get the best available candidate, then his next option would be to promote an AHL coach like Taylor or Sheldon Keefe.  Is this really an upgrade on PH? 

Changing the coach to appease an angry fan base doesn’t seem to be a very smart long term strategy.

 

I recently was in Buffalo for family business and went to the Sabres/Oilers game earlier this month.

I commented about the crowd (fans) don't seem angry about the team, they seem disgusted.

It seems to me a NHL Head Coach needs to teach, create game plans, establish lines and inspire his team.

I don't see Phil Housley excelling in any of those traits.

I'm only a fan and I do not pretend to have the answers but I would be amazed if PH can turn this team around.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Here is the time line of this organization in recent years

2/2011 Ted Black hired as team President

2/20/2013 - Lindy Ruff Fired and replaced by Ron Rolston

11/13/2013 - Pat LaFontaine becomes Pres of Hockey Ops, fires GM Darcy Regier and HC Ron Rolston, hired Ted Nolan to Coach

1/9/2014 - GMTM Hired and Craig Patrick hired as Special Asst

3/1/2014 - Pat LaFontaine resigns

4/12/2015 - Nolan Fired as Coach, Patrick leaves the Sabres

5/28/2015 - Dn Bylsma Hired as Head Coach

7/27/2015 - Russ Brandon replaces Ted Black as Team President

4/20/2017 - GMTM and HCDB are fired

5/11/2017 - Jbot hired as GM

6/15/2017 - Phil Housley hired as HC

5/1/2018 - Russ Brandon resigns and Kim Pegula takes over

This organization has been the model of instability since the Pegula’s took over.  Firing Housley just adds to the mess. For once we need to see a plan through to completion.  

Also Harrington thinks PH should be fired.  This is reason enough to keep PH.  

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[Cheektorado]

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is the time line of this organization in recent years

2/2011 Ted Black hired as team President

2/20/2013 - Lindy Ruff Fired and replaced by Ron Rolston

11/13/2013 - Pat LaFontaine becomes Pres of Hockey Ops, fires GM Darcy Regier and HC Ron Rolston, hired Ted Nolan to Coach

1/9/2014 - GMTM Hired and Craig Patrick hired as Special Asst

3/1/2014 - Pat LaFontaine resigns

4/12/2015 - Nolan Fired as Coach, Patrick leaves the Sabres

5/28/2015 - Dn Bylsma Hired as Head Coach

7/27/2015 - Russ Brandon replaces Ted Black as Team President

4/20/2017 - GMTM and HCDB are fired

5/11/2017 - Jbot hired as GM

6/15/2017 - Phil Housley hired as HC

5/1/2018 - Russ Brandon resigns and Kim Pegula takes over

This organization has been the model of instability since the Pegula’s took over.  Firing Housley just adds to the mess. For once we need to see a plan through to completion.  

Also Harrington thinks PH should be fired.  This is reason enough to keep PH.  

 

 

 

I knew they should of gave Ron Rolston 7 years!

I hear what you are saying but watching PH behind the bench is giving me an ulcer.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Cheektorado

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, Billznut said:

OR we could suffer for another 8 years or more because this franchise can’t get anything right. I’d say this is far more likely. 

I find it more likely that whatever this franchise does, that some people won't be happy.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, Ottosmagic13 said:

I'm certainly fed up with PH and some of his decisions. I might seriously lose it if he utters the phrase "desired result" one more time. 

However, I need them to get it right. If that takes to December of next year, so be it. I don't want to be having this same discussion in two/three years about coach X. 

I want to be discussing who we might face in the first round, or if we will have home ice advantage around this time next year. 

If you read my post you would see that I'm not necessarily in favor of firing Phil in December. My 6 month leeway goes from that point to the end of next year. There would need to be severe signs of regression for me to get behind firing him at that point. And still would be concerned as to whom replaces him in a mid-season scramble for a coach. I think that a mid-season firing in Dec WILL have us having the same discussion in the next couple years and maybe more than once.

Like you, I too would rather be discussing the 1st rd opponent and home ice, with a few moves and the high draft pick we might have, I feel confident that we just might be having those discussions next year.