Phil Housley should be fired.

[eman]

27 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

The point was in regard to your comment that they"all of a sudden" can't put the puck in the net. Not that they couldn't ten years ago. What a joke...LOL

Your point was also about Phil's system and because you aren't happy with it you want to fire him. All you need to do is go back more than two years(the amount of time Phil's been here) to prove you're wrong about the players you mentioned. I had to go back farther than that to find when the last time they were able to score more than they are currently under Phil.

By saying that they "suddenly" don't know how to put the puck in the net....I'll have to assume that the Sabres "suddenly" suck and the last 8 years never happened.

I "suddenly" have a hankering for NeHi grape soda.

My point being, you just don't forget how to put the puck in the net. These guys know how to and aren't doing it here in Buffalo. Minnesota was a low offense system so that is why Pommers numbers dropped off. (although early on in his career there he potted 30) Under Boudreau they were defense first. We badly need offense from other contributors and it would be nice if it came from KO and Pominville. Again, I believe it is Phil's "system" that stifles it. It's not that they can't or no longer have the skills to do so, it is whatever Phil's role for them is and so far, Phil's system has been a failure. You're right, I hate Phil's system, why wouldn't I? I think there is decent talent currently on this club and my bet is, a different, experienced coach would get way more out of these guys then Phil is. Again, time will tell us and unfortunately, we will have to wait one more season because I think that will be all Phil will get, to either get this club over 0.500 or he'll be shown the door and we'll get to see if another coach can do more. The wait won;t be all that long. We've waited 8 seasons already!

This is one of the few teams to be in a solid playoff spot by US Thanksgiving and then fails to qualify barring injuries. To me, everything points to coaching. (again)

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, eman said:

With all due respect, I just went back and did the research, my memory is still decent as I was correct in my assessment. Okposo and Pominville could put the puck in the net with some regularity a few seasons ago. Pominville had a few 30+ goal seasons with the Sabres (before Minnesota and 1 with them) Okposo as an Islander had a few decent goal seasons there as well. Why you're using Sabre totals of the past 4 seasons is puzzling. The offense sucked. (and still does under Phil) Girgensons got 15 in his 2nd season as a Sabre. So please, allow me to spout off a little more!

With all due respect ....your assessment was wrong. A few years ago (many moons before Housley) is not "suddenly".

Pommers last 30g season was 6yrs ago w/Minny and 9yrs ago with Sabres.....if that's suddenly, I can't wait for Botts to "suddenly" turn this team around because I don't think I'll be around that long.

You say suddenly and accuse me of my timeline and then you want to use a 36yr old Pommer who last scored more than 18g 6 seasons ago with another team no less. Then Okposo who was healthier and only 26 playing with Tavares and not Mitts/Sheary or Larsson/Girgs as another example, and have the nerve to ask why can't he score?

Girgensons was used on the top line the year he had 15g and cooled off rather quickly if I recall correctly. He hasn't been on the top line much at all (maybe not at all) since then and for good reason. He fills a role more suited to him.

If the offense "sucked" 4 yrs  now, how can you blame that on Phil when he's only been here for two? If you're saying he's at fault for guys like Pommer/ KO/ Girgs for falling on their faces (which they haven't), then you also have to concede that he is the reason for Eichel/ Skinner/ Sam having career years too.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

16 minutes ago, eman said:

My point being, you just don't forget how to put the puck in the net. These guys know how to and aren't doing it here in Buffalo. Minnesota was a low offense system so that is why Pommers numbers dropped off. (although early on in his career there he potted 30) Under Boudreau they were defense first. We badly need offense from other contributors and it would be nice if it came from KO and Pominville. Again, I believe it is Phil's "system" that stifles it. It's not that they can't or no longer have the skills to do so, it is whatever Phil's role for them is and so far, Phil's system has been a failure. You're right, I hate Phil's system, why wouldn't I? I think there is decent talent currently on this club and my bet is, a different, experienced coach would get way more out of these guys then Phil is. Again, time will tell us and unfortunately, we will have to wait one more season because I think that will be all Phil will get, to either get this club over 0.500 or he'll be shown the door and we'll get to see if another coach can do more. The wait won;t be all that long. We've waited 8 seasons already!

This is one of the few teams to be in a solid playoff spot by US Thanksgiving and then fails to qualify barring injuries. To me, everything points to coaching. (again)

Under 3 GM's and 5 coaches and different levels of talent with different styles among all levels of management and players.....you are confident that Housley is the problem suddenly.

[GASabresIUFAN]

48 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Under 3 GM's and 5 coaches and different levels of talent with different styles among all levels of management and players.....you are confident that Housley is the problem suddenly.

It’s easier to blame the coach and the system despite the history,  the fact that he doesn’t create the roster and the lack of professionalism shown by some of the 23 guys in the locker room.  For example, were the two softies Ullmark missed last night PH’s fault?  

If PH has lost this team how did they play well and win against a Stl team fighting for a playoff spot? 

As I’ve said before that we are 2 years into the first proper rebuild during the “tank” era.  Jbot is still digging out from TM’s mess.  People need to remember that we have only 4 players from all the trades, draft picks, prospects acquired in 2013 and early 2014 and they are Jack, Sam, Larsson and Bogo. Not exactly the core of a great team.

Edited March 18, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[SDS]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If PH has lost this team how did they play well and win against a Stl team fighting for a playoff spot? 

Thanks for pointing this out. I had the snark canon already to fire on this very point, but decided against it. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, SDS said:

Thanks for pointing this out. I had the snark canon already to fire on this very point, but decided against it. 

You’re welcome. I am not saying that PH has been perfect, but we need stability right now.  We need to get more talent and sadly we need to be patient and give Jbot time to execute his plan.  That is 4 years at least and we are in year 2.  

[Kruppstahl]

14 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s easier to blame the coach and the system despite the history,  the fact that he doesn’t create the roster and the lack of professionalism shown by some of the 23 guys in the locker room.  For example, were the two softies Ullmark missed last night PH’s fault?  

If PH has lost this team how did they play well and win against a Stl team fighting for a playoff spot? 

As I’ve said before that we are 2 years into the first proper rebuild during the “tank” era.  Jbot is still digging out from TM’s mess.  People need to remember that we have only 4 players from all the trades, draft picks, prospects acquired in 2013 and early 2014 and they are Jack, Sam, Larsson and Bogo. Not exactly the core of a great team.

Housley has been terrible by most objective standards.  This team has played their best hockey against the best teams, probably b/c the players actually have some amount of pride buried deep in there somewhere. 

Our problems greatly transcend Housley; it's not all on him, but he is certainly a big part of it.

It's why I have been saying all season that firing Housley--in isolation--will not make us a better team, yet he still needs to be fired.

 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

Housley has been terrible by most objective standards.  This team has played their best hockey against the best teams, probably b/c the players actually have some amount of pride buried deep in there somewhere. 

Our problems greatly transcend Housley; it's not all on him, but he is certainly a big part of it.

It's why I have been saying all season that firing Housley--in isolation--will not make us a better team, yet he still needs to be fired.

 

 

Do now we have to install another new system, and again re-structure the roster to get players for that new system?  Really?

We need to see Jbot’s vision through.  Hiring a new coach may do nothing to change the team’s fortunes.  Hitch is 22-22-7 in Edm.  They were 10-10-1 when he was hired.  That looks  like slightly worse results with a HOF coach.  Let’s get PH a real roster with some depth at forward, especially Center and at least one other D besides McCabe who can actually play D. It might also be nice to get a goalie who can stop the puck when we need it.

By the way, what objective measures? Goals for? Goals against?  Wins? Pts? Ranking of special teams?

Edited March 18, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[eman]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s easier to blame the coach and the system despite the history,  the fact that he doesn’t create the roster and the lack of professionalism shown by some of the 23 guys in the locker room.  For example, were the two softies Ullmark missed last night PH’s fault?  

If PH has lost this team how did they play well and win against a Stl team fighting for a playoff spot? 

As I’ve said before that we are 2 years into the first proper rebuild during the “tank” era.  Jbot is still digging out from TM’s mess.  People need to remember that we have only 4 players from all the trades, draft picks, prospects acquired in 2013 and early 2014 and they are Jack, Sam, Larsson and Bogo. Not exactly the core of a great team.

I absolutely have way more patience with JBot- I know his job was not an easy one and I am sure he will be here at least 2 more seasons to get this roster where we may actually see noticeable improvements. But when you consistently see hockey fundamentals (like setting up a screen in front of the opposing goaltender- not readjusting the teams approach in a game after the opposition has adjusted to your game- hence epic second period collapses that we have seen the entire season) I put that on coaching. Trying to entice free agents here will not be easy for JBot. His first job will be getting Skinner to resign. If he can manage that, than maybe, just maybe others may follow but I feel it will be like the Bills with Antonio Brown, they will seek elsewhere.

I do like what's happening in Rochester so maybe that is basically the only way we can go for the time being but agaim. it will take 2 to 3 more seasons of pain before these guys are ready for NHL level competition. We will see if this Sabre club gets throttled by the Leafs on Wednesday or if they show some gusto like they did against St. Lou. If they get hammered and the effort looks dismal,I'm sure you know what to expect regarding the post game posts here.

To be honest, despite a few softies given up by both Hutton and Ullmark, for some reason, I actually do like our goaltenders. With a little more defensive help I feel they will be fine. I don't want them to rush the Finnish kid as he looks like a gem. Again, I also believe we have some decent talent already on this team. I would like to see how they perform under someone else's direction. We'll know more before December of 2019.

 

[dudacek]

43 minutes ago, eman said:

But when you consistently see hockey fundamentals (like setting up a screen in front of the opposing goaltender- not readjusting the teams approach in a game after the opposition has adjusted to your game- hence epic second period collapses that we have seen the entire season) I put that on coaching.

Why do you think the lack of net-front presence is a tactical decision when Housley often talks about the need to get to the net? Why isn't it poor execution by the players?

This in-game readjustment thing smacks of football. If I understand you clearly, you think the Sabres coaches come up with a game plan for their opponent that does OK in the first period, but then fails to anticipate the changes th opponent will make heading into the second and prepare the players for those changes and/or adjust his tactics on the fly during the second when he sees his opponent's tactical adjustments?

Can you give me some examples?

Edited March 18, 2019 by dudacek

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s easier to blame the coach and the system despite the history,  the fact that he doesn’t create the roster and the lack of professionalism shown by some of the 23 guys in the locker room.  For example, were the two softies Ullmark missed last night PH’s fault?  

If PH has lost this team how did they play well and win against a Stl team fighting for a playoff spot? 

As I’ve said before that we are 2 years into the first proper rebuild during the “tank” era.  Jbot is still digging out from TM’s mess.  People need to remember that we have only 4 players from all the trades, draft picks, prospects acquired in 2013 and early 2014 and they are Jack, Sam, Larsson and Bogo. Not exactly the core of a great team.

Amen!!!!

[eman]

15 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Why do you think the lack of net-front presence is a tactical decision when Housley often talks about the need to get to the net? Why isn't it poor execution by the players?

This in-game readjustment thing smacks of football. If I understand you clearly, you think the Sabres coaches come up with a game plan for their opponent that does OK in the first period, but then fails to anticipate the changes opponent will make heading into the second and prepare the players for those changes and/or adjust his tactics on the fly during the second when he sees his opponent's tactical adjustments?

Can you give me some examples?

The consistant epic second period collapses of this club almost the entire season. The Sabres may start a game decently and have a decent first period but you can see the other team figures it out during the intermission and resolves it. Also, if players are not listening to Phil if he has directed them to screen the goaltender, then don't you feel those players shouldn't see the ice again for a while and maybe sit out a game or 2? (like other coaches in this league are apt to do) Again, to me, that's on the coach.

[dudacek]

It struck me that the latter two Sabres goals last night were exactly what Housley wants them to do.

Each play started with puck pressure with support in the defensive zone, followed with an immediate pass to a nearby forward who made sure the puck came through the neutral zone with speed on a rush that featured forwards driving to the net and creating space for their teammates in the process.

None of this "slow the game down" Rob Ray BS; It's about speed: immediate pressure on the puck carrier, a quick pass to nearby support on the turnover, driving the defence back and going hard to the net on the rush. Skating fast, sure, but more importantly closing gaps fast defensively and moving the puck fast in transition.

Dahlin, Montour and the ERod line did those things last night and had success against a big, defensively responsible team.

[JJFIVEOH]

One game does not a coach make. The fact that that they have the 30th best win percentage since their win streak with a non-tank team speaks wonders. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

3 minutes ago, eman said:

The consistant epic second period collapses of this club almost the entire season. The Sabres may start a game decently and have a decent first period but you can see the other team figures it out during the intermission and resolves it. Also, if players are not listening to Phil if he has directed them to screen the goaltender, then don't you feel those players shouldn't see the ice again for a while and maybe sit out a game or 2? (like other coaches in this league are apt to do) Again, to me, that's on the coach.

Then why have our 3rd periods been pretty good, especially early in the season when comebacks were frequent. If he's not adjusting, that likely doesn't happen.

I would also hope that when these players actually start "buying in" to the system and the roster is set, there won't be a need to adjust and maybe only "tweak" from time to time.

Great teams do little adjusting to the opponent and cram their style down your throat. They force "you" to play "their" game, not the other way around.

[eman]

5 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

One game does not a coach make. The fact that that they have the 30th best win percentage since their win streak with a non-tank team speaks wonders. 

Plus we'll see how they handle arch-enemy Maple Leafs next. Is it that same Phil system that worked so well with St. Louis? I hope so because I hate being the Leafs ##### for the next couple of seasons.

[eman]

1 minute ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Then why have our 3rd periods been pretty good, especially early in the season when comebacks were frequent. If he's not adjusting, that likely doesn't happen.

I would also hope that when these players actually start "buying in" to the system and the roster is set, there won't be a need to adjust and maybe only "tweak" from time to time.

Great teams do little adjusting to the opponent and cram their style down your throat. They force "you" to play "their" game, not the other way around.

I'm looking at the overall record and if our 3rd periods have been great, the results don't show it. Or maybe the Sabres are so far behind at that point that the opposition just takes its feet off the pedal and does the minimum to get the 2 points. Again, we will see how long Phil remains at the helm.

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It struck me that the latter two Sabres goals last night were exactly what Housley wants them to do.

Each play started with puck pressure with support in the defensive zone, followed with an immediate pass to a nearby forward who made sure the puck came through the neutral zone with speed on a rush that featured forwards driving to the net and creating space for their teammates in the process.

None of this "slow the game down" Rob Ray BS; It's about speed: immediate pressure on the puck carrier, a quick pass to nearby support on the turnover, driving the defence back and going hard to the net on the rush. Skating fast, sure, but more importantly closing gaps fast defensively and moving the puck fast in transition.

Dahlin, Montour and the ERod line did those things last night and had success against a big, defensively responsible team.

Dahlin, Montour and Erod are some of our better players. Combined with Jack, Sam and Skinner- and I will not give up on Risto just yet either, we have the makings of some decent talent here for sure.

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, eman said:

The consistent epic second period collapses of this club almost the entire season. The Sabres may start a game decently and have a decent first period but you can see the other team figures it out during the intermission and resolves it. Also, if players are not listening to Phil if he has directed them to screen the goaltender, then don't you feel those players shouldn't see the ice again for a while and maybe sit out a game or 2? (like other coaches in this league are apt to do) Again, to me, that's on the coach.

Sorry, but I don't see that. I see the other team score in bunches off missed assignments, turnovers or poor goaltending — often suddenly, and not as part of the flow of the game.  I haven't seen the other team figuring it out. Not saying it hasn't happened, I just haven't noticed. I'm looking for things like "the Stars were keeping their third man high on the forecheck in the first, but in the second they started sending him in" or "Larsson was really getting under Matthews skin in the first so Babcock put Marner on that line and it seemed to open up the ice."

I'm not sure what the stats are now, but the Sabres were leading the league in third-period comebacks over the first half of the season. Does that mean that Phil is (or at least was) good at making adjustments after the second period?

[eman]

6 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Then why have our 3rd periods been pretty good, especially early in the season when comebacks were frequent. If he's not adjusting, that likely doesn't happen.

I would also hope that when these players actually start "buying in" to the system and the roster is set, there won't be a need to adjust and maybe only "tweak" from time to time.

Great teams do little adjusting to the opponent and cram their style down your throat. They force "you" to play "their" game, not the other way around.

 

12 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

One game does not a coach make. The fact that that they have the 30th best win percentage since their win streak with a non-tank team speaks wonders. 

See JJ's post.

[JJFIVEOH]

6 minutes ago, eman said:

Plus we'll see how they handle arch-enemy Maple Leafs next. Is it that same Phil system that worked so well with St. Louis? I hope so because I hate being the Leafs ##### for the next couple of seasons.

Exactly. When they can start doing what they did last night on a consistent basis, then I'll be convinced. I can't see it happening under Phil. 

[eman]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Sorry, but I don't see that. I see the other team score in bunches off missed assignments, turnovers or poor goaltending — often suddenly, and not as part of the flow of the game.  I haven't seen the other team figuring it out. Not saying it hasn't happened, I just haven't noticed. I'm looking for things like "the Stars were keeping their third man high on the forecheck in the first, but in the second they started sending him in" or "Larsson was really getting under Matthews skin in the first so Babcock put Marner on that line and it seemed to open up the ice."

I'm not sure what the stats are now, but the Sabres were leading the league in third-period comebacks over the first half of the season. Does that mean that Phil is (or at least was) good at making adjustments after the second period?

 

13 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

One game does not a coach make. The fact that that they have the 30th best win percentage since their win streak with a non-tank team speaks wonders. 

Again, see JJ's post- so what happened come December until now if Phil can readjust as well as other coaches?

1 minute ago, JJFIVEOH said:

Exactly. When they can start doing what they did last night on a consistent basis, then I'll be convinced. I can't see it happening under Phil. 

I'm with JJ on this. It can start against the Leafs though!

[JJFIVEOH]

9 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Then why have our 3rd periods been pretty good, especially early in the season when comebacks were frequent. If he's not adjusting, that likely doesn't happen.

I would also hope that when these players actually start "buying in" to the system and the roster is set, there won't be a need to adjust and maybe only "tweak" from time to time.

Great teams do little adjusting to the opponent and cram their style down your throat. They force "you" to play "their" game, not the other way around.

Good teams don't need to comeback every game to win. 

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

Exactly. When they can start doing what they did last night on a consistent basis, then I'll be convinced. I can't see it happening under Phil. 

I don't think the game plan was any different last night than it was the previous night.

I think Sheary and Larsson picked corners instead of shooting wide or fumbling the pass. I think Hutton didn't let stoppable shots leak through him.

Execution.

Edited March 18, 2019 by dudacek

[eman]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don't think the game plan was any different last night than it was the previous night.

I think Sheary and Larsson picked corners instead of shooting wide or fumbling the pass. I think Hutton didn't let stoppable shots leak through him.

Execution.

Lets see which Sabre team shows up against the Leafs. Hopefully, the St. Louis version.

[dudacek]

I'm checking out before people start seeing me as a Phil defender.

I'm looking for an explanation of the things that Phil is doing wrong and the answers boil down to: "he's losing."

I miss Flagg.

Edited March 18, 2019 by dudacek