Phil Housley should be fired.

[Thorner]

On 3/15/2019 at 11:27 AM, Kruppstahl said:

We have seen enough with both franchises to see the problem, IMO.  The problem is Pegula is beyond clueless.  So as long as he is making the critical decisions like who to hire as GM, nothing but garbage will flow downhill from that initial decision.

I totally agree with you: he needs to be surrounded by quality people he trusts and who know what the hell they are doing. 

I think a "czar" position would serve both franchises very well.

See, here is the thing.  Let's say he eventually fires Housley and Botterill, which he WILL be doing at some point, it's just a question of when.  What then?  Is he just going to repeat the same mistakes, conduct a new GM search himself, do the interviewing, and make the hiring decision on his own?  What makes him think he knows how to run a hockey franchise? 

If he's just going to keep repeating the same mistakes via the same broken structure, don't expect much to change long term.

A czar, if it's the right one, could change that.

To his credit, he did try something like that, but again, he chose the wrong guy in LaFontaine.  He needs to go back to that type of approach, but with someone a bit more proven in the role than Patty La La.

 

 

 

If I'm not mistaken, word was that the league "assisted" Pegula in the hiring of Botterill. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Thorny

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

Tell me how many teams with 5--it will be 6, if Housley is fired--coaches in 6 years are successful.

You were wrong 10 years ago and don't want to admit it, I get that.

But you're still wrong today if you think a revolving door is the answer.

 

[Brawndo]

9 hours ago, Ross Rhea said:

Craig Berube in St Louis, came in half way through the year and turned them around in a big way. Does St Louis have tons more talent than Buffalo? 

 

IMO, Housley isn't getting the job done. Would love to see Taylor as coach next year, love his interviews, great guy, really good coach.

Berube and Binnington have done wonders for the Blues

It would not surprise me if he is at the Top of Botterill’s List and if Housley somehow survives into The Fall, Taylor will be celebrating Thanksgiving behind the Sabres Bench 

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

Tell me how many teams with 5--it will be 6, if Housley is fired--coaches in 6 years are successful.

You were wrong 10 years ago and don't want to admit it, I get that.

But you're still wrong today if you think a revolving door is the answer.

The biggest problem is as more talent has been added to the team over the past three seasons the worse the results have gotten. 

I was one of the biggest cheerleaders to have Phil become the HC. He was also on the NHL’s Short List of Coaching Candidates recommended to the Pegulas. Unfortunately it’s not working out. 

Compare what Housley to Rick Tocchet, who according to Insiders was going to be the Number One Candidate for the Sabres HC, has done with Arizona. His team is close to the lead in Man Games Lost and yet they are in the thick of a playoff race. 

1 hour ago, TrueBlueGED said:

There's a difference, of course, in the downside risk of firing a coach who has had considerable success and one that has led consecutive bottom-5 finishes. What, exactly, is the risk in firing Housley? 

And honestly, I really want someone to make a positive case for Housley, rather than deflecting to the roster or warning of a downside. What has he done to add value to the team? What can anyone point to and say "this is why we need to keep him around."

There isn’t a reason 

Another thought, if Housley is retained there will need to be replacement of Asst Coaches and who will want to come to Buffalo if the HC is on a very short leash? Unless the new Assistants are pre-approved by Taylor 

22 minutes ago, Thorny said:

If I'm not mistaken, word was that the league "assisted" Pegula in the hiring of Botterill. 

Yes, he came highly recommended by the league 

[eman]

3 hours ago, Eleven said:

Tell me how many teams with 5--it will be 6, if Housley is fired--coaches in 6 years are successful.

You were wrong 10 years ago and don't want to admit it, I get that.

But you're still wrong today if you think a revolving door is the answer.

I also stand by the fact that Phil is definitely not the answer behind the Sabres bench. But we'll know one way or the other by November of this year. 

[Thorner]

This team really might not win back to back games again before the end of the season. Having trouble just getting one win right now. I'm beginning to think it's more likely than not Housley gets canned at season's end. They're on an epic slide. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Thorny

[Brawndo]

Sheldon Keefe just signed an extension with the Marlies. He is now the highest paid coach in the AHL, but he does have an out for NHL  Jobs 

[eman]

I seriously cannot see anyone on this site defending Phil at this point. I do not believe any other organization would stand by their coach with the product this club is putting on the ice. For the sake of this entire organization, and PH himself, please end this by seasons finish. Time to try again at a decent head coach.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

The biggest problem is as more talent has been added to the team over the past three seasons the worse the results have gotten. 

Hmmm. Skinner and Dahlin in, ROR and Kane out.................trying to think of "more talent" worth talking about but coming up with nothing. 

[JJFIVEOH]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

This team really might not win back to back games again before the end of the season. Having trouble just getting one win right now. I'm beginning to think it's more likely than not Housley gets canned at season's end. They're on an epic slide. 

I'm discouraged by the comment PHam made about fans being comfortable with the fact Housley being behind the bench next year. I'm hoping they lose out so maybe Botterill has second thoughts if that is the case. As important as I think it is to finish up the season on a high note so the players might look forward to next year, I don't want there to be any hope. 

[...]

It is all quite the pickle.

[Zamboni]

T - minus 11 ....

[Kruppstahl]

It's now been 46 games played since the last win of the 10 game winning streak on November 27th.

We have scored 33 points over those 46 games. That's about a .7 points per game pace.

Average that over 82 games, and it's a 59 point season (rounding up).

That's not much better than 2014-2015, a tank year, when we got 54 points on the season. 

We have been watching the equivalent of historically bad tank hockey for 3.5 months now, despite no one trying to tank.

Botterill and Housley should not be able to survive this, and yet I think at least one of them will.

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Kruppstahl

[Pimlach]

JBot is safe.  Pegula might make him make a move and then Housley gets replaced by the Amerks coach.  In two more years we could be having the same conversation.  

[Eleven]

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 In two more years we could be having the same conversation.

You think it will take that long?  This conversation started far less than two years after Housley got the job.

[Ross Rhea]

7 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

It's now been 46 games played since the last win of the 10 game winning streak on November 27th.

We have scored 33 points over those 46 games. That's about a .7 points per game pace.

Average that over 82 games, and it's a 59 point season (rounding up).

That's not much better than 2014-2015, a tank year, when we got 54 points on the season. 

We have been watching the equivalent of historically bad tank hockey for 3.5 months now, despite no one trying to tank.

Botterill and Housley should not be able to survive this, and yet I think at least one of them will.

 

 

 

Botterill survives and Housley doesn't. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

12 hours ago, eman said:

I also stand by the fact that Phil is definitely not the answer behind the Sabres bench. But we'll know one way or the other by November of this year. 

I won't agree nor will I disagree....just that it may be years before we actually find out. 

What if we hire a coach like Trotz or some of the others mentioned and still don't improve?  

[Stoner]

27 minutes ago, Eleven said:

You think it will take that long?  This conversation started far less than two years after Housley got the job.

And were they wrong?

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

And were they wrong?

Don't know and that's certainly not what I'm commenting on.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

7 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

It's now been 46 games played since the last win of the 10 game winning streak on November 27th.

We have scored 33 points over those 46 games. That's about a .7 points per game pace.

Average that over 82 games, and it's a 59 point season (rounding up).

That's not much better than 2014-2015, a tank year, when we got 54 points on the season. 

We have been watching the equivalent of historically bad tank hockey for 3.5 months now, despite no one trying to tank.

Botterill and Housley should not be able to survive this, and yet I think at least one of them will.

 

 

 

What impresses me is that with a 59pt season we would only be 3pts worse than we were WITH ROR last year.

And we still have 11 games left to improve on that.

[eman]

9 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I won't agree nor will I disagree....just that it may be years before we actually find out. 

What if we hire a coach like Trotz or some of the others mentioned and still don't improve?  

Then I would totally concede that maybe, most of this on ice mess wasn't on Phil. But from what I am watching, I honestly believe Phil's system sucks huge. I cannot understand how guys like Pominville and Okposo (and maybe even Girgensons) all of a sudden, don't know how to put the puck in the net like they used to. I think whatever system Phil is trying to install stifles that ability. The defense does not take the body aside from maybe Bogo. (and perhaps McCabe) but the rest- weak. Why is Tage Thompson not told to go in front of the opposing goalie and screen him? That has to come from the coach. Only Samson does this sporadically and he doesn't have Thompson's size. Hockey 101.

Have you noticed in the past 10 Sabres games now that screening the goalie isn't in the game plan? I've been watching this closely and I cannot believe it. DeSmith had a relatively easy night. It's mind boggling. Some may argue we have players who don't want to go there, but then its up to the coach to instruct them to go there and do it, or you sit. I am willing to gamble that even under Guy Boucher (who I feel, got the Gallant treatment in Ottawa- but Melnyk is an ownership disaster also) this team would be at least 10 points or more better. What have we got to lose at this point? I have seen nothing out of a Phil Housley coached club that gives me even remote hope for next season.

[Weave]

18 minutes ago, eman said:

Then I would totally concede that maybe, most of this on ice mess wasn't on Phil. But from what I am watching, I honestly believe Phil's system sucks huge. I cannot understand how guys like Pominville and Okposo (and maybe even Girgensons) all of a sudden, don't know how to put the puck in the net like they used to. I think whatever system Phil is trying to install stifles that ability. The defense does not take the body aside from maybe Bogo. (and perhaps McCabe) but the rest- weak. Why is Tage Thompson not told to go in front of the opposing goalie and screen him? That has to come from the coach. Only Samson does this sporadically and he doesn't have Thompson's size. Hockey 101.

Have you noticed in the past 10 Sabres games now that screening the goalie isn't in the game plan? I've been watching this closely and I cannot believe it. DeSmith had a relatively easy night. It's mind boggling. Some may argue we have players who don't want to go there, but then its up to the coach to instruct them to go there and do it, or you sit. I am willing to gamble that even under Guy Boucher (who I feel, got the Gallant treatment in Ottawa- but Melnyk is an ownership disaster also) this team would be at least 10 points or more better. What have we got to lose at this point? I have seen nothing out of a Phil Housley coached club that gives me even remote hope for next season.

I don't think screening the goalie isn't in the game plan.  PH has talked about players not getting to the front of the net.

At this point in their development/careers, I can't imagine a forward needing to be told/reinforced that he needs to go the the net.  But here we are....

 

 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

11 minutes ago, eman said:

Then I would totally concede that maybe, most of this on ice mess wasn't on Phil. But from what I am watching, I honestly believe Phil's system sucks huge. I cannot understand how guys like Pominville and Okposo (and maybe even Girgensons) all of a sudden, don't know how to put the puck in the net like they used to. I think whatever system Phil is trying to install stifles that ability. The defense does not take the body aside from maybe Bogo. (and perhaps McCabe) but the rest- weak. Why is Tage Thompson not told to go in front of the opposing goalie and screen him? That has to come from the coach. Only Samson does this sporadically and he doesn't have Thompson's size. Hockey 101.

Have you noticed in the past 10 Sabres games now that screening the goalie isn't in the game plan? I've been watching this closely and I cannot believe it. DeSmith had a relatively easy night. It's mind boggling. Some may argue we have players who don't want to go there, but then its up to the coach to instruct them to go there and do it, or you sit. I am willing to gamble that even under Guy Boucher (who I feel, got the Gallant treatment in Ottawa- but Melnyk is an ownership disaster also) this team would be at least 10 points or more better. What have we got to lose at this point? I have seen nothing out of a Phil Housley coached club that gives me even remote hope for next season.

Do you do any reasearch before you spout off?

Pommers has more goals this season than he had in Minny a couple years ago and 1g shy of last year with 11 games to go.

Okposo is on pace to finish with 2 goals less than last year and about 4goals less than his average in a season with the Sabres.

Girgensons is in a shut-down role on 4th line and hasn't score more than 7g in 4 years.

I highly doubt you've proved that Housley's system is at fault and in Pommers case just the opposite. Not to mention that Nashville is a fun team to watch.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

36 minutes ago, eman said:

Then I would totally concede that maybe, most of this on ice mess wasn't on Phil. But from what I am watching, I honestly believe Phil's system sucks huge. I cannot understand how guys like Pominville and Okposo (and maybe even Girgensons) all of a sudden, don't know how to put the puck in the net like they used to. I think whatever system Phil is trying to install stifles that ability. The defense does not take the body aside from maybe Bogo. (and perhaps McCabe) but the rest- weak. Why is Tage Thompson not told to go in front of the opposing goalie and screen him? That has to come from the coach. Only Samson does this sporadically and he doesn't have Thompson's size. Hockey 101.

Have you noticed in the past 10 Sabres games now that screening the goalie isn't in the game plan? I've been watching this closely and I cannot believe it. DeSmith had a relatively easy night. It's mind boggling. Some may argue we have players who don't want to go there, but then its up to the coach to instruct them to go there and do it, or you sit. I am willing to gamble that even under Guy Boucher (who I feel, got the Gallant treatment in Ottawa- but Melnyk is an ownership disaster also) this team would be at least 10 points or more better. What have we got to lose at this point? I have seen nothing out of a Phil Housley coached club that gives me even remote hope for next season.

We don't know what Housley tells the players. I could just as easily say "Why doesn't Phil tell Tage to get his shot ON NET". Hockey 102.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

52 minutes ago, eman said:

Then I would totally concede that maybe, most of this on ice mess wasn't on Phil. But from what I am watching, I honestly believe Phil's system sucks huge. I cannot understand how guys like Pominville and Okposo (and maybe even Girgensons) all of a sudden, don't know how to put the puck in the net like they used to. I think whatever system Phil is trying to install stifles that ability. The defense does not take the body aside from maybe Bogo. (and perhaps McCabe) but the rest- weak. Why is Tage Thompson not told to go in front of the opposing goalie and screen him? That has to come from the coach. Only Samson does this sporadically and he doesn't have Thompson's size. Hockey 101.

Have you noticed in the past 10 Sabres games now that screening the goalie isn't in the game plan? I've been watching this closely and I cannot believe it. DeSmith had a relatively easy night. It's mind boggling. Some may argue we have players who don't want to go there, but then its up to the coach to instruct them to go there and do it, or you sit. I am willing to gamble that even under Guy Boucher (who I feel, got the Gallant treatment in Ottawa- but Melnyk is an ownership disaster also) this team would be at least 10 points or more better. What have we got to lose at this point? I have seen nothing out of a Phil Housley coached club that gives me even remote hope for next season.

Sooooooo....I guess that Eichel, Skinner and Reinhart all having career years (maybe even others, I didn't look)gives you no hope and it's all Phils systems fault? I get it.

There is no hope. Not now. Not ever. Thank you.

[Neo]

Will a change in coaches change the franchise’s trajectory quickly with this group of talent?  Will a change of talent change the franchis’s trajectory quickly with this group of coaches?  I am unable to respond to True Blue’s question with a defendable argument.  Believing that life is making decisions with the best information available, I give Phil until the end of December, 2019.  I am a believer that all resets extend the timeline of success.  I also am a believer that once the organization is solid, the players rotating in and out are better.  Rochester appears stabilized.

The biggest unknown I have relates to what Housley and Botterill are calling success this year.  Player selection, usage and game day systems have an objective.  I don’t know if we’re working on today or tomorrow when we take the ice this afternoon.  “Both” is brutally hard to accomplish.

The Tank was chemo, an amputation, an organ transplant, an infection and an exorcism, all at once.

Hockey players in the 70s thread:  Traditional Christian reference addressing angels and the head of a pin.

Fire Phil thread:  Traditional Christian reference addressing Limbo.

Limbo:  2.  an uncertain period of awaiting a decision or resolution; an intermediate state or condition.

"the fate of the Sabres is now in limbo".