Phil Housley should be fired.

[Kruppstahl]

2 hours ago, Radar said:

Still would like an experienced successful person brought in to oversee whole operation. Pegulas have to have experienced president or czar or whatever you want to call them running the franchises. Pegulas are great fans and willing to spend but that seems to have not in itself been the answer to being successful.

We have seen enough with both franchises to see the problem, IMO.  The problem is Pegula is beyond clueless.  So as long as he is making the critical decisions like who to hire as GM, nothing but garbage will flow downhill from that initial decision.

I totally agree with you: he needs to be surrounded by quality people he trusts and who know what the hell they are doing. 

I think a "czar" position would serve both franchises very well.

See, here is the thing.  Let's say he eventually fires Housley and Botterill, which he WILL be doing at some point, it's just a question of when.  What then?  Is he just going to repeat the same mistakes, conduct a new GM search himself, do the interviewing, and make the hiring decision on his own?  What makes him think he knows how to run a hockey franchise? 

If he's just going to keep repeating the same mistakes via the same broken structure, don't expect much to change long term.

A czar, if it's the right one, could change that.

To his credit, he did try something like that, but again, he chose the wrong guy in LaFontaine.  He needs to go back to that type of approach, but with someone a bit more proven in the role than Patty La La.

 

 

 

[Doohicksie]

11 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

A czar, if it's the right one, could change that.

We tried that.  He left/was fired/we may never know after just a few months.

My point is:  When one of these people is brought in, they all look like good selections at the time, and Sabrespace generally swoons over them before turning on them.  If we like the selections initially, how can we call TPegs clueless for making them?

[Kruppstahl]

Just now, Doohickie said:

We tried that.  He left/was fired/we may never know after just a few months.

Hiring the wrong individual doesn't invalidate the process.

Teams also fire bad coaches all the time; doesn't mean it isn't important and effective to hire a good one.

Obviously LaFontaine was not the guy for the job, but Pegula didn't figure that out.

Most of this will always come back to Pegula.  He's the source of all of it.

 

 

[Doohicksie]

1 minute ago, Kruppstahl said:

Obviously LaFontaine was not the guy for the job, but Pegula didn't figure that out.

It wasn't obvious at the time.  It wasn't obvious until he left.

[calti]

We need tough veteran players at this point. This will never work out just adding skill guys to a team with a foundation of weaklings.

Even the 80s Oilers had a bunch of very very tough players to go with their freakish amt of skill guys.

Its OK to sign players in their 30s...then while we go out there and are competitive and hit people and dont back away in the defensive zone

we can wait for Dahlin to keep improving and for Middlestadt to learn to do a pullup

-Hiring some coach to improve the play of this roster isnt gonna help that much.Its a roster problem not a coaching problem.

Edited March 15, 2019 by calti

[dudacek]

It's amazing what three straight shutouts can do.

This is a results-oriented business. Kruppstahl has been getting what he asked for and if it continues it will inevitably lead to the result he wants.

Edited March 15, 2019 by dudacek

[Kruppstahl]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

It wasn't obvious at the time.  It wasn't obvious until he left.

That depends on what version of the story you believe.  One version was that LaFontaine is somewhat out of his mind with brain trauma from his many concussions, and that he had gone rogue, taking independent action in some areas where team discussion should have been relevant.

If LaFontaine is not all there it was on Pegula to figure that out before he gave him the keys to the franchise.  As I understand it, Pegula simply bumped into #16 at some charity event or whatever and was like "hey, you'd make a great choice for this job" simply b/c LaFontaine was a fan favorite and a great hockey player.

It's a great example of Pegula's naivety, and why it's going to be tough to overcome.

 

 

33 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It's amazing what three straight shutouts can do.

This is a results-oriented business. Kruppstahl has been getting what he asked for and if it continues it will inevitably lead to the result he wants.

I would assume you and everyone else wants the same result, don't you?

I want this team to be competitive some day, and actually good.

Not pretend good.

I would hope you can see that this team will achieve nothing with the current administration in charge.  The sooner it is replace, the sooner we have the chance to improve.  But even that will mean nothing if Pegula makes more bad hires.

 

 

 

[North Buffalo]

JBotts is not the problem.  I do think Phil is.  A more experience coach could have handled the rumored ROR issues and probably the Kane issues.  Jack wanted captaincy but wasnt ready and a more experienced coach could have put him in his place... still think Sabres need a new coach, young guys need a proven strong leader.

[Stoner]

For those concerned about the optics involved in firing another coach, the perceived instability of the franchise, consider that Terry's Pens drafted Mario in 1984 and Bob Johnson was his fifth coach in his first seven seasons — and things finally clicked with a Cup win before Bob sadly died after just that one season. Craig Patrick was also Mario's third GM. That seemed to work out. Craig stayed until 2006.

Phil Housley is Bob Berry.

You keep trying. The Sabres have literally nothing to lose.

[Stoner]

And — Berry's successor, Pierre Creamer, was fired after one season with a winning record. His replacement, Gene Ubriaco, had the Pens into the second round and got fired later that calendar year. Therrien fired late in the regular season and Bylsma took them to a Cup; same story with Mike Johnston and Mike Sullivan.

[...]

33 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

For those concerned about the optics involved in firing another coach, the perceived instability of the franchise, consider that Terry's Pens drafted Mario in 1984 and Bob Johnson was his fifth coach in his first seven seasons — and things finally clicked with a Cup win before Bob sadly died after just that one season. Craig Patrick was also Mario's third GM. That seemed to work out. Craig stayed until 2006.

Phil Housley is Bob Berry.

You keep trying. The Sabres have literally nothing to lose.

 

26 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

And — Berry's successor, Pierre Creamer, was fired after one season with a winning record. His replacement, Gene Ubriaco, had the Pens into the second round and got fired later that calendar year. Therrien fired late in the regular season and Bylsma took them to a Cup; same story with Mike Johnston and Mike Sullivan.

Wow, nice summary.  Maybe, perhaps, there is a chance that Pegagla "gets it", if he's such a Pittsburgh guy.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

For those concerned about the optics involved in firing another coach, the perceived instability of the franchise, consider that Terry's Pens drafted Mario in 1984 and Bob Johnson was his fifth coach in his first seven seasons — and things finally clicked with a Cup win before Bob sadly died after just that one season. Craig Patrick was also Mario's third GM. That seemed to work out. Craig stayed until 2006.

Phil Housley is Bob Berry.

You keep trying. The Sabres have literally nothing to lose.

With your logic here it would seem that we should keep Botts/ PH duo.

Darcy/TM/Botts==3rd GM

Lindy/ RR/Nolan/Disco/ PH==5th HC

We should win with these two.

[eman]

5 hours ago, calti said:

We need tough veteran players at this point. This will never work out just adding skill guys to a team with a foundation of weaklings.

Even the 80s Oilers had a bunch of very very tough players to go with their freakish amt of skill guys.

Its OK to sign players in their 30s...then while we go out there and are competitive and hit people and dont back away in the defensive zone

we can wait for Dahlin to keep improving and for Middlestadt to learn to do a pullup

-Hiring some coach to improve the play of this roster isnt gonna help that much.Its a roster problem not a coaching problem.

I'll stick to "It's a coaching problem"- Look at the Isles under Trotz. They lost their franchise player and got better, lead the league in GAA with ex-Sabre Lehner in goal and Tomas Greiss for God's sake. Nope, it's definitely the coaching. The team is a reflection of its coach.

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 minutes ago, eman said:

I'll stick to "It's a coaching problem"- Look at the Isles under Trotz. They lost their franchise player and got better, lead the league in GAA with ex-Sabre Lehner in goal and Tomas Greiss for God's sake. Nope, it's definitely the coaching. The team is a reflection of its coach.

NYI has better defensive personnel and Trotz is a great coach.  They said what is Hitch doing for Edm. Nothing.  Sometimes the roster isn’t good enough.

[PerreaultForever]

27 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

NYI has better defensive personnel and Trotz is a great coach.  They said what is Hitch doing for Edm. Nothing.  Sometimes the roster isn’t good enough.

I know a lot of people think Quennville could magically elevate us to the promised land but I think it'd be exactly like Hitchcock in Edmonton (Chicago is actually playing better now without him just for the record but that's not important).

I wish firing Housley would be some magical fix, but it's simply not true. There is no coach that will magically fix this. Our talent is simply not good.  You have a choice to either believe the youngsters like Mittlestadt and Dahlin etc. will get better and elevate us along with some other possible future additions and to believe the system will work when the talent arrives or you get cynical and dump on it and bitch and moan for another year like the one before. I'm happier to think positively, but if people need to go the other way I get that too. 

[Eleven]

2 hours ago, eman said:

I'll stick to "It's a coaching problem"- Look at the Isles under Trotz. They lost their franchise player and got better, lead the league in GAA with ex-Sabre Lehner in goal and Tomas Greiss for God's sake. Nope, it's definitely the coaching. The team is a reflection of its coach.

And let us look at Trotz.  Fired by one team that was just *this close* to a Cup, and not extended by another, with which he WON the Cup.

I'm not saying Housley's the answer and I'm not saying he isn't,  but, again, beware the revolving door.

[SwampD]

30 minutes ago, Eleven said:

And let us look at Trotz.  Fired by one team that was just *this close* to a Cup, and not extended by another, with which he WON the Cup.

I'm not saying Housley's the answer and I'm not saying he isn't,  but, again, beware the revolving door.

So, if it’s not working, just stick with it and kiss it up to God?

That makes no sense, either.

[eman]

14 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

NYI has better defensive personnel and Trotz is a great coach.  They said what is Hitch doing for Edm. Nothing.  Sometimes the roster isn’t good enough.

Hitch got them back into the playoff picture. They are still in contention, the Sabres are not. Edmonton might fall short but they were out of it completely when they fired their previous coach. Agreed that Trotz might just be greater than Hitch though. A shame that 2 marquee players like McDavid and Eichel have yet to be really showcased come playoff time. Edmonton's D is suspect as well and Talbot wasn't very good this season while he was an Oiler. 

[Ross Rhea]

Craig Berube in St Louis, came in half way through the year and turned them around in a big way. Does St Louis have tons more talent than Buffalo? 

 

IMO, Housley isn't getting the job done. Would love to see Taylor as coach next year, love his interviews, great guy, really good coach.

[Radar]

Do we need more talent? Yes. Still this team seems lost beyond the need for talent.

[Gatorman0519]

Offer Gallant $15 mill to leave Vegas and we will do fine ??

[Sabres Fan in NS]

25 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Offer Gallant $15 mill to leave Vegas and we will do fine ??

You have a new bbf in @JJFIVEOH.

[Kruppstahl]

6 hours ago, Radar said:

Do we need more talent? Yes. Still this team seems lost beyond the need for talent.

I think that was brought to the front by Pommenville with his post game comments after the Pittsburgh game.

He was straight up pointing the finger at the players, not coaching, and suggesting effort was not there.

This is obvious for anyone objectively watching, but it was good to hear it from a player right in the middle of it all.

It's been that way for a long time.

It has been years since this team came out prepared to play the start of the game and then delivered 3 strong periods, game after game after game.  

There is some reason for that and it transcends a mere "lack of talent" as you rightly point out.

 

 

[Eleven]

18 hours ago, SwampD said:

So, if it’s not working, just stick with it and kiss it up to God?

That makes no sense, either.

Tell me how many teams with 5--it will be 6, if Housley is fired--coaches in 6 years are successful.

You were wrong 10 years ago and don't want to admit it, I get that.

But you're still wrong today if you think a revolving door is the answer.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Eleven

[TrueBlueGED]

19 hours ago, Eleven said:

And let us look at Trotz.  Fired by one team that was just *this close* to a Cup, and not extended by another, with which he WON the Cup.

I'm not saying Housley's the answer and I'm not saying he isn't,  but, again, beware the revolving door.

There's a difference, of course, in the downside risk of firing a coach who has had considerable success and one that has led consecutive bottom-5 finishes. What, exactly, is the risk in firing Housley? 

And honestly, I really want someone to make a positive case for Housley, rather than deflecting to the roster or warning of a downside. What has he done to add value to the team? What can anyone point to and say "this is why we need to keep him around."