The Blueline Is A Mess

[Cascade Youth]

Much has been made about secondary scoring and it's an issue, for sure.  The power play is completely ineffective as well.  The Sabres also haven't been getting the lucky bounces they were getting early in the season.

But from my (admittedly amateur) vantage point, the issue is clearly the defensemen.  2-5 times per game, at least, they make GLARING, BASIC, PEE WEE-LEVEL mistakes.  Muffin passes in front of their own net (Pilut last night, Scandella against Edmonton).  They are passive.  They lose focus.  They sit and watch the play happen as if they're spectators.  They fail to pinch.  Risto looks like he's suffering from overuse; Dahlin is still learning the game; the rest of these guys are just not very good.  

I'm wondering whether the increased offensive responsibilities Housley's system puts on them is just too much for these guys - they aren't able to contribute offensively while also keeping track of basic defensive assignments like staying with their man (Scandella is the biggest offender - he needs to sit in the press box ASAP).

I'm starting to wonder whether the blueline isn't a bigger need than another forward who can score.  I think it might be.  The Sabres' leaky defense lost them the game last night.

Just my two cents - don't worry, I don't plan to start threads too often.

[Stoner]

Good post. No, you're right. What happened to Brendan Guhle? I would have sworn after how he finished last season that he'd be a major contributor this season under Housley's system.

[Ross Rhea]

Yup, they let guys skate, carry the puck, and stick check only in the slot. Every team gets high quality chances from the slot that are basically uncontested. Other than Risto this defense is way too soft.  

[inkman]

3 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Good post. No, you're right. What happened to Brendan Guhle? I would have sworn after how he finished last season that he'd be a major contributor this season under Housley's system.

He's regressed quite a bit. That free flowing fast skating wunderkind.  Now he seems timid and prone to errors. If Borgen hadn't already passed him on the depth chart, it won't be long. Although they do offer distinctly different styles. 

[PalmTreeMafia]

I dont necessarily think talent is the issue. Dahlin, Ristolainen, McCabe, and Pilut is a solid top-4 of the future. Guhle, Laaksonen, Borgen, and Samuelsson are good prospects to help fill out the third line of the future. Bogosian and Nelson are capable stopgaps.

I think Phil's coaching is the biggest problem, followed closely by the NHL inexperience of Dahlin and Pilut and the general suckiness of Scandella this season.

 

[LGR4GM]

Housley has them giving up the blue line. It's a major problem. 

[Weave]

I’m not convinced Housley is coaching them to give up the blueline.  I’d bet, if he’s questioned about it he would respond that he needs to see them hold the blueline.

 

And the defense in general is not something that concerns me.  Pilut has had a few lousy games now.  And I don’t think Scandella is as bad as we tend to make him out to be.  He’s more valuable than we give him credit for on the PK in particular.

I think 2C is the major concern, and getting Hutton back to earlier season form is the next largest concern.  Our bottom pair D follows after IMO.

[Scottysabres]

While not freshly painted, I thought the blue line looked recognizable.....

But yea, our defensemen's ability to recognize it while not giving away the puck, well that's a different story.

[darksabre]

I don't even think it's just the defensive players that are our defensive problem so much as it's the rest of the team. On the whole this team really doesn't have much control over the middle of the ice in their end. 

[Scottysabres]

4 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I don't even think it's just the defensive players that are our defensive problem so much as it's the rest of the team. On the whole this team really doesn't have much control over the middle of the ice in their end. 

Agreed.

The slot is far to often wide open. I do notice when they are pressured there is very little to no support in board battles down low in the corners or behind the net. The stick check thing is getting old, they need to take the body imo.

Also, they collapse to within 3 to 5 feet from our own net before trying to challenge, by then it's to late in most cases.

[dudacek]

The D has been surprisingly good for the first half of the season and surprisingly bad for the past few weeks.

I though Scandella was shaking his slump but he has seriously backslid again, Risto is pressing, Dahlin is getting walked too often and Pilut is starting to be exposed. And to make matters worse every mistake seems to be ending up in the net recently, which can’t be good for the confidence.

[Weave]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The D has been surprisingly good for the first half of the season and surprisingly bad for the past few weeks.

I though Scandella was shaking his slump but he has seriously backslid again, Risto is pressing, Dahlin is getting walked too often and Pilut is starting to be exposed. And to make matters worse every mistake seems to be ending up in the net recently, which can’t be good for the confidence.

 

Pilut was on the ice for all 4 goals against last night.  I'd imagine shellshock right about now.  I'd be surprised if teams weren't targeting him.

[Stoner]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

He's regressed quite a bit. That free flowing fast skating wunderkind.  Now he seems timid and prone to errors. If Borgen hadn't already passed him on the depth chart, it won't be long. Although they do offer distinctly different styles. 

A matter of being too good for the AHL? Disappointment in being there after tasting the bigs?

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Marchand'sNose said:

I dont necessarily think talent is the issue. Dahlin, Ristolainen, McCabe, and Pilut is a solid top-4 of the future. Guhle, Laaksonen, Borgen, and Samuelsson are good prospects to help fill out the third line of the future. Bogosian and Nelson are capable stopgaps.

I think Phil's coaching is the biggest problem, followed closely by the NHL inexperience of Dahlin and Pilut and the general suckiness of Scandella this season.

 

Interesting take.  No way do I call Pilut a solid top 4 defenseman at this time.  He is making rookie mistakes so I can let that go for now but he shows little ability to keep the front of the net clear, or to even try.   He can move the puck, he can pass, decent in the offensive zone but a work in progress.  Heavy teams will give him trouble, he needs to get stronger. 

We have played 10 different defensemen this year, using countless combinations.  The defensive parings are not settled or consistent and we have a lot of youth, both leading to inconsistent play.   Two months ago we were gushing about our defense, now we are saying they are a problem.  Overall our D is much better than last season thanks to the addition of Dahlin and Pilut and the health of Bogo. 

Our top 4 performers this season are Risto, Dahlin, Bogo, and McCabe - in that order. As of today I think the best 5 and 6 are Pilut and Beaulieu.  I would be sitting Scandy right now.  Nelson and Hunwick are next and both played no worse than Scandy this season.  Guhle is not ready.  Tennyson needs to never come back.  Borgen needs to stay in the AHL for a year. 

Phil was noted as a very good defense coach referring back to his days in Nashville.  They also have Steve Smith.  I do not think coaching is the problem.  Experience, familiarity and consistency are. 

 

[Taro T]

The D right now is playing poorly but they aren't getting much help from the forwards in their own end either.

On the 1st goal, when the puck moved back to the D that took the deflected/screened shot Pominville was below the faceoff dot.  The guy had a ton of room.

On the 2nd goal, Pominville covered the guy who scored until he got to about 10 ft from the crease & let him go.  Rodrigues didn't seem to expect that & reacted too slowly to cover him.

Pilut very likely will be a 4in the NHL.  But he's not right now.  And Housley keeps pairing him with Ristolainen while facing competition he isn't ready for because he doesn't want to put Scandella out with Pilut nor Beaulieu.

They, sadly, desperately need Nelson back.  When he's back one of those other 3 (possibly even Marco) should be a 3rd pairing that doesn't get their brains bashedin.  And then they can have McCabe Ristolainen & Dahlin Bogosian as the top pairs.

Until he's healthy, Phil really needs to have 2 strong pairs with Pilut & Scandella (because he won't benchMarco for whatever reason) as the 3rd pair getting sheltered minutes but using them respectively on PP2 & PK.  Maybe Scandella's been battling through an injury & this break will bring him back.  They really need it.

If he absolutely is bound & determined to go balanced-ish pairings, slide Dahlin to cover for Scandella (hate breaking up Rasmus-Bogo) as that pairing doesn't get blown up as much as having Nate or Larry Jr there and put Pilut with Bogo leaving a 1st pairing of McCabe Risto that ALWAYS faces the other team's top line.

This extended break MIGHT actually be long enough to revive the corpse of Pommers well enough that they can get useful hockey out of him for another 6-8 games.  Try sliding him onto Eichel's line the 2 road games.  If he's clicking, let him stay until he's toast again & then never play him there again.  If the experiment doesn't work, make him the 13th F when they come back to home ice.

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

 

Pilut was on the ice for all 4 goals against last night.  I'd imagine shellshock right about now.  I'd be surprised if teams weren't targeting him.

He just is not ready and is an obvious weak link. Back to Rochester with him. 

[bob_sauve28]

He was not on the ice for winning goal, that was Scandella 

[dudacek]

Can Pilut go to Rochester during the bye/all-star break?

If so, he should.

[darksabre]

Doesn't the AHL also take an all star break?

[Kruppstahl]

The PP is a mess b/c we have too many skilled guys on it who are always looking for the perfect passing play resulting in an empty net goal, b/c that's how skilled guys think/play hockey.

Phil and the staff need to hammer into these guys to simplify, and SHOOT the damned puck.

Goals usually come from the chaos that ensues after an initial, often mundane shot attempt, with luck playing a major role.

It's funny how often the team with the man advantage kills the penalty for the other team, free of charge, through over-movement of the puck.

We were doing a lot of that in Vancouver last night.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ogre]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Can Pilut go to Rochester during the bye/all-star break?

If so, he should.

 

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

Doesn't the AHL also take an all star break?

Pilut is on the roster to represent the Amerks.

https://theahl.com/all-star-roster-changes-jan18

[inkman]

2 hours ago, darksabre said:

Doesn't the AHL also take an all star break?

Just a couple days.  The events are 27th & 28th. 

[jad1]

1 hour ago, Kruppstahl said:

The PP is a mess b/c we have too many skilled guys on it who are always looking for the perfect passing play resulting in an empty net goal, b/c that's how skilled guys think/play hockey.

Phil and the staff need to hammer into these guys to simplify, and SHOOT the damned puck.

Goals usually come from the chaos that ensues after an initial, often mundane shot attempt, with luck playing a major role.

It's funny how often the team with the man advantage kills the penalty for the other team, free of charge, through over-movement of the puck.

We were doing a lot of that in Vancouver last night.

 

 

 

 

 

I would add that their Rube Goldberg-like entry plays also eat up valuable time on power play.  Eichel has a high zone-entry success rate.  Why do they need four drop passes to get it to him to carry it into the zone?

And when they get it into the zone, they screw Eichel to the left side board, the Ovechkin-one-timer zone.  But Jack never really takes that one-timer shot.  The puck goes to him and the defense collapses, and Jack sends it high to the dman, who works to get it back to Jack, and the defense collapses. 

And the funny think is that Jack is probably better shooting from the right side than the left.  

The whole premise of the powerplay is to get Jack a shot that he probably won't be able to take.  They'll move other guys around to get Jack his shot, Dmen go high to low, wingers dig on the boards and move to the net.  The only guy who is stationary is Jack, the best skater and scorer on the team.

They need to abandon this one-timer set-up mentality and let Eichel be the guy that moves.  Let him play high on some attempts.  Move him to the right side on others.  Make it harder for the defense to find him.

[Gatorman0519]

3 hours ago, jad1 said:

I would add that their Rube Goldberg-like entry plays also eat up valuable time on power play.  Eichel has a high zone-entry success rate.  Why do they need four drop passes to get it to him to carry it into the zone?

And when they get it into the zone, they screw Eichel to the left side board, the Ovechkin-one-timer zone.  But Jack never really takes that one-timer shot.  The puck goes to him and the defense collapses, and Jack sends it high to the dman, who works to get it back to Jack, and the defense collapses. 

And the funny think is that Jack is probably better shooting from the right side than the left.  

The whole premise of the powerplay is to get Jack a shot that he probably won't be able to take.  They'll move other guys around to get Jack his shot, Dmen go high to low, wingers dig on the boards and move to the net.  The only guy who is stationary is Jack, the best skater and scorer on the team.

They need to abandon this one-timer set-up mentality and let Eichel be the guy that moves.  Let him play high on some attempts.  Move him to the right side on others.  Make it harder for the defense to find him.

My son and I had a similar conversation.  Jack scores his best goals when he is moving.  

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, Taro T said:

The D right now is playing poorly but they aren't getting much help from the forwards in their own end either.

 

Yup, that's what I'm seeing too. The D is also being asked to attack and drive the rush all the time because the forwards suck and outside of the Eichel line generate zero offense on their own. Vast majority of our goals are the result of D driven plays. So with that in mind they are asking the D to do everything and all too often the forwards are not back checking well. Add to that both goalies need work on their rebound control. All too often pucks put right back out in front.

I'm fine with the improvements in the D and where it's going. The problem for me is still a pile of crap wingers.