GDT - Sabres @ Vancouver - January 18, 2019 - 10:00 PM - SNP; MSG-B

[CallawaySabres]

6 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Enjoy the losing and then you can watch them pick the next Nylander and feel optimistic for a year.  

Two more scoring forwards, one being a 2C, and this team takes a big step.  Free agency and trades can get us there. 

You want players to come here, start winning. 

I hate the losing....my point is they can't win because they aren't any good

[Scottysabres]

I don't know man.

We have four 1st rd picks. Botterill, you have the capital available to improve this team right now. I don't believe selecting all four 1st's and waiting for them to develop is really a winning strategy, by that time Jack will be saying I want out of here, along with a few others.

Spend a couple of the 1sts, an A/B prospect and a roster player or 2, change the dynamics of the team. Their are players out there, who can be had, who are worth spending on. For example, I keep bringing up Rickard Rakell, it's been reported anyone on the Ducks can be had outside of Gibson, Rakell's contract is that friendly, he's shown he can produce but is having a down yr as the entire team is, and you have Montour sitting there with him, an RHD no less.

Bury Pominville, he's done. It's over. If no one will take him sit him. Trade Sobotka, someone will take a flyer on him. Trade Scandella, yes, someone will pay for him believe it or not. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

6 hours ago, Tondas said:

The Sabres play to the level of competition they face.  The sign of an inexperienced team.

The bolded has nothing to do with it, they've been that way for nearly 50yrs,

The first part I've been posting forever....whenever anyone gets all crazy that we're playing a top team. You only have to go as far as the Calgary pre-game posts to find it.

[CallawaySabres]

10 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

I don't know man.

We have four 1st rd picks. Botterill, you have the capital available to improve this team right now. I don't believe selecting all four 1st's and waiting for them to develop is really a winning strategy, by that time Jack will be saying I want out of here, along with a few others.

Spend a couple of the 1sts, an A/B prospect and a roster player or 2, change the dynamics of the team. Their are players out there, who can be had, who are worth spending on. For example, I keep bringing up Rickard Rakell, it's been reported anyone on the Ducks can be had outside of Gibson, Rakell's contract is that friendly, he's shown he can produce but is having a down yr as the entire team is, and you have Montour sitting there with him, an RHD no less.

Bury Pominville, he's done. It's over. If no one will take him sit him. Trade Sobotka, someone will take a flyer on him. Trade Scandella, yes, someone will pay for him believe it or not. 

This is probably what Toronto will do to make  the cup in the next two to three years. Buffalo has been bad for so long that I would rather keep all of our first rounders and make a few b-level trades and stay competitive for the next 10 years. I'm not even looking at the Stanley Cup right now, I just want to be going to some goddamn playoff games for once in the last decade

[Scottysabres]

1 minute ago, CallawaySabres said:

This is probably what Toronto will do to make  the cup in the next two to three years. Buffalo has been bad for so long that I would rather keep all of our first rounders and make a few b-level trades and stay competitive for the next 10 years. I'm not even looking at the Stanley Cup right now, I just want to be going to some goddamn playoff games for once in the last decade

Some of us are pushing the over 50 area, I can't say I have 10 yrs left honestly, anything can happen up at my age, heart attack, stroke, anything. I'd rather he go get us the immediate help now.

[CallawaySabres]

7 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Some of us are pushing the over 50 area, I can't say I have 10 yrs left honestly, anything can happen up at my age, heart attack, stroke, anything. I'd rather he go get us the immediate help now.

I am right there with ya brother but I'm hoping to make it to 60 quite easily.....and then some 

I want 10th straight years being in the playoffs and having a chance rather than giving it all up right now and going for it all in the next two to three

It's really hard to believe how badly they messed up the last month but I guess in two years, we won't have to worry about any of it.....hopefully 

Next year they will be fighting for a wild-card spot all year long and then the following year, we can only hope they make it in the top three

Edited January 19, 2019 by CallawaySabres

[Scottysabres]

1 minute ago, CallawaySabres said:

I am right there with ya brother but I'm hoping to make it to 60 quite easily.....and then some 

I want 10th straight years being in the playoffs and having a chance rather than giving it all up right now and going for it all in the next two to three

It's really hard to believe how badly they messed up the last month but I guess in two years, we won't have to worry about any of it.....hopefully 

Next year they will be fighting for a wild-card spot all year long and then the following year, we can only hope they make it in the top three

Optimism is good, and in a vacuum that should be the case, there is a catch however, the other teams in the EC that are passing us currently, or close to us, they are going to try and get better as well. Indeed a few of them have already made in-season roster moves to do so. They aren't waiting for draft picks that may or may not pan out 3 yrs + down the road, they're making adjustments and additions/subtractions now. There in lay the problem with waiting and hoping draft picks will save the day.

[That Aud Smell]

I only got to see a bit of the game. The Sabres were positively dominant out of the gate.

I saw the SOG this morning. Shame that the team didn’t get a better result - looks like they deserved it.

[eman]

40 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Optimism is good, and in a vacuum that should be the case, there is a catch however, the other teams in the EC that are passing us currently, or close to us, they are going to try and get better as well. Indeed a few of them have already made in-season roster moves to do so. They aren't waiting for draft picks that may or may not pan out 3 yrs + down the road, they're making adjustments and additions/subtractions now. There in lay the problem with waiting and hoping draft picks will save the day.

Exactly, I find the thinking here is "we'll get better and none of the other clubs will"- not going to happen. They'll be pushing just as hard as this organization so you may as well go for the gusto  as soon as you can. Look at Montreal. That lineup is playing great under a very good coach. No Galchenyuk, no Pacioretty. Domi, Weber and Price. Domi and Weber aren't all that either but the club is coming together under the coaching of Julien. Lets not forget Sabre castoff Paul Byron. Look at the Isles under Trotz. Robin Lehner looks like a pretty good NHL goaltender once again and they lost their "franchise player". Sure they have Barzal , but seriously, aside from him? Coaching means more than we know and good coaches get decent results. I still believe there is more talent on this club then is getting credit. 

[Stoner]

How many Sabres head coaches in their history check the box of either 1. Former Sabre or 2. Former Cup winner? It doesn't work. (In a nod to our friend who has Lindy's kidney inside him, it almost worked.)

8 hours ago, WildCard said:

I fcking hate sports I really do

I had a moment after midnight where I honestly asked myself why I do this to myself. Psychic surrender to young, degenerate jocks who don't care half as much as I do.

8 hours ago, SwampD said:

That wasn't a terrible game to watch. We had our moments.

Jack's not right.

There was a bump with a Canuck where Jack got the worst of it, and that almost never happens. And after he scored in OT in Calgary, you could see his teammates being very careful about how they celebrated with him. The Ginger is still ginger.

[Stoner]

13 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I only got to see a bit of the game. The Sabres were positively dominant out of the gate.

I saw the SOG this morning. Shame that the team didn’t get a better result - looks like they deserved it.

This might be a classic example where analytics would lose to the eye test. This never felt like a game that the Vancouver goalie was "stealing." He made some really good saves, notably on Skinner's in-close slam. But it was more about the same old, feckless Sabres. No feck! Their defensive play, in spite of keeping SOG down, negates any chance of saying they deserved a better fate.

[apuszczalowski]

This idea that you have to be patient and preserve picks and you will be good for a decade is BS. The problem with Murray wasnt that he tried to rush things and made trades, his problem was that he just made crappy deals. He overpaid from a position of strength and wasnt very good at maximising assetts for talent. Throw in poor coaching choices and it makes it worse.

 

The good franchise that are competitive for decades are ones with good coaching and great front offices. You have to get the best return you can for your picks,  whether it be from the draft or in trades, use Free Agency and the trade market to keep your team competitive. 

 

Just sitting on prospects and waiting for them to develop and take over the roster isnt going to build some dominant roster that will stay competitive for decades. 

[Stoner]

The goalie mask "shakeoff" is worth revisiting. I think they're taking advantage of a loose interpretation of the rules.

Quote

When a goalkeeper has lost his helmet and/or face mask and his
team has control of the puck, the play shall be stopped immediately to
allow the goalkeeper the opportunity to regain his helmet and/or face
mask. When the opposing team has control of the puck, play shall
only be stopped if there is no immediate and impending scoring
opportunity. This stoppage of play must be made by the Referee.

When a goalkeeper deliberately removes his helmet and/or face
mask in order to secure a stoppage of play, the Referee shall stop
play as outlined above and in this case assess the goalkeeper a minor
penalty for delaying the game.

I would argue that Demko did not LOSE his mask, he REMOVED it.

[LGR4GM]

I am so glad that botterill doesn't share this board's desire to piss away 1st round picks from a team with limited depth. 

Again we see this teams low shot percentage. Looking at the shot chart, see a lot of those outside shots. Gotta go to the hard areas to score. 

I'm glad we have 11 days off. I think they need it and I think they need to fix their power play. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

3 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Too bad you didn’t go 2 for 2. 

I had not even thought of that part of it.

The game was frustrating, but what I find much more frustrating is that someone here is actually advocating for the Sabres to lose more in order to enhance their draft position.

Have we not *suffered* enough already?

I think the break will do the team and the fans good.  We all need to regenerate.

[Scottysabres]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I am so glad that botterill doesn't share this board's desire to piss away 1st round picks from a team with limited depth. 

Again we see this teams low shot percentage. Looking at the shot chart, see a lot of those outside shots. Gotta go to the hard areas to score. 

I'm glad we have 11 days off. I think they need it and I think they need to fix their power play. 

Because you can absolutely, unequivocally, guarantee all those 1st rd picks are going to turn in to stud depth or main core components of a cup contender?

I want what your smoking.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Scottysabres said:

Because you can absolutely, unequivocally, guarantee all those 1st rd picks are going to turn in to stud depth or main core components of a cup contender?

I want what your smoking.

If I ran the Sabres draft, yes. 

How'd Brock Boeser do last night, asking for a friend. 

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

If I ran the Sabres draft, yes. 

Honestly, your knowledge of prospects is pretty amazing.

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I had not even thought of that part of it.

The game was frustrating, but what I find much more frustrating is that someone here is actually advocating for the Sabres to lose more in order to enhance their draft position.

Have we not *suffered* enough already?

I think the break will do the team and the fans good.  We all need to regenerate.

We should make the playoffs. I think we could. 

8 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Honestly, your knowledge of prospects is pretty amazing.

I'd be useless after round 2 though. Useless. 

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We should make the playoffs. I think we could. 

I'd be useless after round 2 though. Useless. 

All of the GMs are useless after round 2--actually, after round 1. It's all hit or miss. I think I made that point in the Bailey thread.  

Edited January 19, 2019 by Eleven

[PalmTreeMafia]

30 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I am so glad that botterill doesn't share this board's desire to piss away 1st round picks from a team with limited depth. 

Again we see this teams low shot percentage. Looking at the shot chart, see a lot of those outside shots. Gotta go to the hard areas to score. 

I'm glad we have 11 days off. I think they need it and I think they need to fix their power play. 

A few things wrong with this statement:

1. Who said that any of the 1st round draft picks have to be traded? I'm sure JB can find a couple useful forward rentals for the playoff push without having to sacrifice any major asset.

2. JB can always make trades that convert 1st round draft picks into older prospects further along the development path. This might be the more preferable use of the 1st round resources, no?

3. JB has spoken extensively on the importance of building a "winning culture" in Rochester. Shouldn't that philosophy also be true for the Buffalo squad? We're quickly approaching 4 straight seasons in Eichel's career where the team didn't make the playoffs, the middle 2 of which the team underachieved in a very big way. At what point does a "losing culture" become ingrained in Buffalo, assuming it hasn't already? Patience is a virtue....to a point. Beyond that point, it becomes a cause of failure. I don't know exactly where that point is for JB, but my fear is that he has been looking at this as year 2 of the rebuild and not an inherited year 8 of a rebuild that began with Regier. If the former, then he may be building a roster of Pierre Turgeons - that is to say, individually talented players who collectively never end up winning much of anything bcause they don't know how to do so.

Edited January 19, 2019 by Marchand'sNose

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Just now, Eleven said:

All of the GMs are useless after round 2--actually, after round 1. It's all hit or miss. I think I made that point in the Bailey thread.  

I was thinking  the same thing, but about the scouting departments.  I think most GMs listen to their scouts when it comes to the draft.

[R_Dudley]

8 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Enjoy the losing and then you can watch them pick the next Nylander and feel optimistic for a year.  

Two more scoring forwards, one being a 2C, and this team takes a big step.  Free agency and trades can get us there. 

You want players to come here, start winning. 

While I agree those are all positions of need and add more talent where its needed that alone will not make this team a winner. 

If it was only talent then the top teams wouldn't need a coach. We have all seen very good coaches do more with less. At least having their teams play sound fundamental hockey.

Reading through the post GDT threads its apparent many of the mistakes everyone keeps talking about the players make can be attributed to effort and execution.  The great coaches in any sport have always been able to get the most out of their players.      

This team plays like Housley played through out his career soft, and easily disrupted. Their continues to a be a disconnect between the system they are using, the players needed to execute that system and the coaching needed to make that happen. 

Sounds simple right. My biggest disappoint continues to be I feel like we may have 2 out of the 3(management and talent base) but I am still not seeing the signs that's going to happen with the coaching.     

[Scottysabres]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If I ran the Sabres draft, yes. 

How'd Brock Boeser do last night, asking for a friend. 

Picking a couple here or there is subjective at best given the variables that go in to success. Such as chemistry, coaching strategy and role usage to name a few of only the exterior forces on a player.

The larger picture of over all draft selections, and I am sure someone here can chart it out, is that the selections we make in 2019, if St. Louis continues on their current path is a couple of mid 1st rdr's and a late one from SJ.

None of which, in this draft class from what I've read in any event will be ready next season to step in, so 5 yrs of Reinharts and Eichel's entire early NHL careers thrown away while we wait for draft picks to mature, develop and find the pace of the NHL game? Longer for Risto, Girgs, Larsson, oh yea, I can hear the excitement in their collective draft party get together.......

 

"Look who Bots picked up guys, we'll be in the playoffs by yrs 9 or 10 of my career, oh thank you Buffalo, thank you soooooo much"..........

[darksabre]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

This might be a classic example where analytics would lose to the eye test. This never felt like a game that the Vancouver goalie was "stealing." He made some really good saves, notably on Skinner's in-close slam. But it was more about the same old, feckless Sabres. No feck! Their defensive play, in spite of keeping SOG down, negates any chance of saying they deserved a better fate.

Analytics would support the eye test here but you have to look at multiple things. Shot maps are going to be the big one. 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/201901180VAN.html#all_shotchart

The Sabres played the better game offensively. They weren't even that bad defensively in that they limited the amount of Vancouver shots.

But allowing three goals from right around the net: that is how you lose games. Vancouver did the same and that should have been enough to get Buffalo a win. 

The Sabres can't have teams scoring from the slot so much and expect to come away with wins. What Vancouver did last night (and got away with) is why they aren't good either.