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Should analytics be banned from normal everyday threads?

LGR4GM

By LGR4GM
in The Aud Club

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Analytics on the Main Forum  

44 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you in favor of removing analytics discussions and use from the Main Forum of Sabrespace?

    • Yes, it should be discussed elsewhere
      5
    • No, it adds to the main forum
      39

  2. 2. Are you in favor of posters who use analytics on the Main Forum being banned for using advanced statistics?

  3. 3. Should analytics still exist on the Main Forum but solely in their own dedicated thread?


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SwampD Hall of Famer

SwampD

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Weave said:

Cheese and rice, there are alot of youz that are clearly not busy enough doing actual work during the work day.

It was a really slow day and this was the perfect time filler/waster.

31 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The issue becomes, even if it is determined to be the correct and chosen course of action, how on earth do you ban "Advanced Stats" from a GDT? Is there a filter? Lol. Seems to be a ridiculously slippery slope.

Is, "I don't like how many shots we are giving up from in the slot, we are getting way less from there, even though we are up 1", advanced stats? As PA has alluded to, he's been making "advanced stats" observations since before the term was coined.

The issue rather seems to be language rather than content, in many cases.

Ftr, I don’t think they should be banned in any thread.

R_Dudley Second Liner

R_Dudley

Posted
Posted (edited)

Wow.

Well I am not a nerd stats guys(not condescending my term of endearment) or detailed Hockey strategy know every players fantasy/trade value or have the time to do detailed analysis of every topic discussed here by others. We also have a pretty healthy amount of razzing, snark and great humor that a lot of us have bandied about as well. Maybe that allows the discussions to get misconstrued into making it feel personal because I have seen a lot of very good exchanges prior with the people debating in this one. 

I voted stats should be allowed because I enjoy reading these various opinions and idea's even if i don't always agree with them. That's what makes this place more than any other board I have read and seen.  

Now i leave with a Dadism not to  offend someone but because I am one. "Don't sweat the Petty things and Don't pet the sweaty things and remember they are all petty on a message board".    

 

Edited by R_Dudley
update
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MakeSabresGrr8Again Third Liner

MakeSabresGrr8Again

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, darksabre said:

Ridiculous?

More condescension that I'm just supposed to ignore eh? 

The window Jack had to hit to get that puck in the net was incredibly small. Like, Luke using the force to blow up the Death Star small.

It's amazing that he put the puck where he did on that goal. Absolutely amazing. I'd love to see him hit it twice in a row.

 

3 hours ago, darksabre said:

I feel like people are taking my calling it "lucky" as some kind of diss on Jack.

I wouldn't worry about it because there is a whole lot more wrong in this world than this. The way I see the problem.....it's all about "human nature". I say the sky is blue and you come back with no, it's powder blue.  It's human nature to have an opinion. There's also a defense mechanism to try and support that opinion. The way people express that opinion is another problem especially on the internet where you aren't face to face. All the thumbs up, Beers, emoji's, etc, don't fully convey the expressions and emotions that we are feeling.

Another problem is that people take offense to the slightest things, more so today than in years past. Such as your comment about jack's goal being lucky. To me it's just your opinion and was likely just a statement in an effort by you to convey that feeling. No barbs intended toward Jack or anyone else that might differ in opinion. You probably had no intention of starting a "discussion" of this magnitude and were just generalizing your opinion. I could think of 1000's of scenarios where this could happen but there's no room for it here. An example might be.....you are hanging out with some friends at a bar and make the comment "that woman at the end of the bar is hot". You aren't expecting an argument from your friends, in fact, you're probably (if anything) looking for support  from your friends. But there's always that one that doesn't like Blondes or she's "too skinny"  etc. Another example is the "luck" factor. You say Jack was lucky someone else says "no, i bet he makes that shot 2 out of ten times". You think "well that's sounds like luck to me". The other person says " I bet Matt Ellis only makes that shot 1 in 50 tries". So, is it skill or is it that Jack is "luckier" than Matt? Or, is jack's skill just playing a factor in the luck equation? Ever tell someone that you won $100 dollars on the scratch off lottery and hear them say " I never win anything on those scratchers, you're just lucky. Then you find out they don't even buy them?

I'm not an advance stat guy and don't really understand too many of them. Not my cup of tea. But  if someone else wants to use them that's fine with me. But they should also respect the fact that I don't understand them and don't push them on me. I try to remember the times (still do sometimes) when some of us old timers  were so into SOG and +/- and SV% that we tried to push that on everyone in our arguments. I can't really condemn those who have found other means to support their stand either. 

All in all, we should just realize that this is just a sport and source of entertainment, and all get along the best we can while not taking it all so seriously. Remembering that we all have an opinion and that it may not be shared by everyone.

Next time you get into a spat with the other half and make a off the cuff generalization like "you do that to me all the time".....don't be surprised if she hands you a Fenwick report showing that she doesn't do it all the time and tells you how "lucky" you are that she doesn't. LOL

SDS All Star

SDS

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

 

 Basically what WildCard said. Convincing someone that we should/shouldn't trade one of our 1sts for help now doesn't bear any fruit either. There is no greater end in that debate than in discussing using stats to analyze the game. Yet somehow that hasn't come under fire. And that's the point, whether something here has any impact in the real world shouldn't be the measure of whether the discussion itself is worthwhile. 

I guess I did a poor job of explaining myself or maybe I just made a bad point. In neither of my posts did I refer to every day discussion. What I did try to emphasize was the situation when the goal is to force the person on the other end of the conversation to agree with a position, which I assert is an entirely different animal. 

At no point did I assert that simply having a discussion was not worthwhile. 

Eleven Hall of Famer

Eleven

Posted
Posted

Un-automated response (because we know those aren't automated anyway):

This thread is no longer contributing positively to the community and should be shut down, burnt, buried, exhumed, re-buried, re-exhumed, stomped on, tarred, feathered, set on horseback facing backwards with a mask, and then shot in a rocket to Pluto.

TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Eleven said:

Lat me ask a question:  Do you analytics folks post when the Sabres should have won, but lost?  It is an honest question.

Yes. It just goes unnoticed because it gets drown out in the swamp of misery after every loss. 

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Stoner Hall of Famer

Stoner

Posted
Posted

I am heartened by the vote. One is a kook; four is a revolution. We won't live to see it, but #fancystats will go the way of the self-driving car and cauliflower pizza crust. RESIST.

  • Like (+1) 1
Eleven Hall of Famer

Eleven

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I am heartened by the vote. One is a kook; four is a revolution. We won't live to see it, but #fancystats will go the way of the self-driving car and cauliflower pizza crust. RESIST.

Self-driving cauliflower is pretty awesome with Bison onion dip.  (Raw, not cooked.)

  • Haha (+1) 1
MakeSabresGrr8Again Third Liner

MakeSabresGrr8Again

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, MattPie said:

I'll add two things:

  1. If the advanced stats said the Sabres win streak was unsustainable, they were 100% right. The team has looked the same level of mediocre before and after.
  2. If a player could hit a 6x6" area in the corner of the net with precision every time, there'd be a lot more goals scored in the NHL. Also, players would go 4 for 4 in that plate breaking thing in the All-star game with regularity. This doesn't diminish Jack making that shot, but he probably only hits it a few times out of 10, which is a lot more than most players.

That all depends on how you look at things. On one hand you could say they're 100% right because we all know that teams are not gonna win every game they play and therefore the streak will eventually come to an end. And really, for me, I don't need stats to tell me that.

Also, like you said, the mediocre play prior to the streak caused people to question the sustainability after about the 3rd game of the streak. Yet it continued on and consumed a 10 game span, in which the stats in this case would have been wrong from that point until the streak actually ended. If I wrote you a check for $100 and you don't cash that check for about 2 weeks, according to the bank my balance is $100 more than what I account for. I know that balance is "unsustainable" because I know that you will cash that check at some point. You then cash the check and I am 100% right.

darksabre Hall of Famer

darksabre

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Eleven said:

Lat me ask a question:  Do you analytics folks post when the Sabres should have won, but lost?  It is an honest question.

I literally did it after the Edmonton game but no one cared because they were too busy flipping out. 

MakeSabresGrr8Again Third Liner

MakeSabresGrr8Again

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Eleven said:

Un-automated response (because we know those aren't automated anyway):

This thread is no longer contributing positively to the community and should be shut down, burnt, buried, exhumed, re-buried, re-exhumed, stomped on, tarred, feathered, set on horseback facing backwards with a mask, and then shot in a rocket to Pluto.

Shut down (pull the plug), burnt (cremated), buried, exhumed, re-buried, re-exhumed.....stats says that you live within 100 kilometers of a cemetery. 

Advanced stats ....within 62.137 miles.

Eleven Hall of Famer

Eleven

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Shut down (pull the plug), burnt (cremated), buried, exhumed, re-buried, re-exhumed.....stats says that you live within 100 kilometers of a cemetery. 

Advanced stats ....within 62.137 miles.

I can walk to Forest Lawn in ten minutes.  Also, I think there might be a squirrel or a cat buried in the yard over the fence.

Edited by Eleven
  • Haha (+1) 1
Eleven Hall of Famer

Eleven

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Brings back memories.....not the cemetery, but my 1st job I worked at Elmwood and Bird, back in the '70's.

We Never Close?

SwampD Hall of Famer

SwampD

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

I am heartened by the vote. One is a kook; four is a revolution. We won't live to see it, but #fancystats will go the way of the self-driving car and cauliflower pizza crust. RESIST.

I can't wait to sit in the back seat and practice my bass for 6 hours (okay, 4 with a 2 hour nap in there) while my car drives me back to WNY. C'mon Google. Make this happen.

Eleven Hall of Famer

Eleven

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Yup.

Omigosh.  Well, you'll be pleased to know that it's still there, alive and kickin'.  I'm not sure what purpose it serves in this day and age, unless the spread of botulism has slowed, but it's there.

  • Haha (+1) 1
MakeSabresGrr8Again Third Liner

MakeSabresGrr8Again

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Eleven said:

Omigosh.  Well, you'll be pleased to know that it's still there, alive and kickin'.  I'm not sure what purpose it serves in this day and age, unless the spread of botulism has slowed, but it's there.

Pleased?

I knew it's still there, haven't been down that way in a long time though. Many fond memories revolve around that store and some pretty strange ones too. That strip was great back in the day... Goodbar, Coles, Casey's, all the students from the college, and the other bars around the corner on Forest. Some great times.

Eleven Hall of Famer

Eleven

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Pleased?

I knew it's still there, haven't been down that way in a long time though. Many fond memories revolve around that store and some pretty strange ones too. That strip was great back in the day... Goodbar, Coles, Casey's, all the students from the college, and the other bars around the corner on Forest. Some great times.

I think Casey's Nickelodeon may have been an ice cream soda bar by the time I was in high school?  Otherwise, it's all the same.  Goodbar did a stint as a Mickey Rat's outpost in the early 90s, but it's back, and Cole's has been around since my grandparents' days.

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