Michael Gilbert Resigns

[WildCard]

15 minutes ago, shrader said:

Including the great contributions of the last two posts.

This conversation has happened a million times on here. I pop in to say one thing and that's what you single in on?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Just now, shrader said:

So if I were to walk into a random bar in some town I've never been to, I'm free to cat call and grab as many butts as possible?

Of course not.  This thread is not about that and neither was my comment.

[Stoner]

5 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I would hope so, yes.

Hoping is good.

Lest I be thought of as someone who's defending these two gents, I'm not. I want to see ALL of this kind of behavior wiped out. Yes, including such harassment by women, and it happens. Unfortunately, it's getting all tangled up in righting some perceived societal injustice ("white, male privilege"). Gibby was a tasty fish to fry.

Edited January 17, 2019 by PASabreFan

[shrader]

Just now, WildCard said:

This conversation has happened a million times on here. I pop in to say one thing and that's what you single in on?

Well only saying one thing doesn't give much of a chance other than to single in.

[That Aud Smell]

32 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Care to elaborate?

Best I could do for a faux amazement, no s**t,  Sherlock sort of reaction.

6 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

What if the offender had been a young guy from UB who has a work study job in the library? Does the friend call HR at the university?

(Btw: In your scenario, the offender lacks power over the person being harassed.)

[shrader]

1 minute ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Of course not.  This thread is not about that and neither was my comment.

Ok, so you were trying to generalize this specific incident.  Fair enough.  But when you say "harassment of any kind", it implies that you're looking beyond just this case.

[That Aud Smell]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Lest I be thought of as someone who's defending these two gents, I'm not. I want to see ALL of this kind of behavior wiped out. Yes, including such harassment by women, and it happens. Unfortunately, it's getting all tangled up in righting some perceived societal injustice ("white, male privilege"). Gibby was a tasty fish to fry.

Yes, let's get middle-aged white dudes to act better as a cohort without addressing how they deal with positions of privilege and power. Yes, let's.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 minute ago, shrader said:

Ok, so you were trying to generalize this specific incident.  Fair enough.  But when you say "harassment of any kind", it implies that you're looking beyond just this case.

Fair point.

If I were to get into it I could come up with an arguement that one walking into a random bar and behaving as you suggested is actually doing so from a position of power, or privilage, over the other.  It would not be hard to do.

[Eleven]

56 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I'm talking about the news report, which had a fair amount of detail regarding Gilbert's conduct.

Is it? I'm asking. 

If someone says: I'll talk to you about this matter off the record because I don't want to suffer any personal consequences -- does that make the source's content off-limits for a reporter?

I think with these types of accusations, yes.  If you're going to call someone a lecher, put your name to it or shut up.  It's one thing to keep the victims' names from the public--and I'm not even sure that's appropriate in a case of harassment rather than assault--but it's pretty pernicious IMO to smear a person's name anonymously.  Not saying Gilbert didn't do it, and not saying he did, but the reporting was irresponsible.

[SwampD]

I just hope the whistleblower was a white dude. No, even more, I hope he was a blond white dude. From Karate Kid, Revenge of the Nerds, Better Off Dead,... all the way to the Harry Potter movies, we are always viewed as the biggest douchebags. I really hope it was a blond white guy that blew these guys in.

[Stoner]

2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Yes, let's get middle-aged white dudes to act better as a cohort without addressing how they deal with positions of privilege and power. Yes, let's.

Don't you care when non-executive vice presidents of something or other do it? Oh yeah, those privileged and powerful middle aged white coal miners from Kentucky.

[Eleven]

Just now, SwampD said:

I just hope the whistleblower was a white dude. No, even more, I hope he was a blond white dude. From Karate Kid, Revenge of the Nerds, Better Off Dead,... all the way to the Harry Potter movies, we are always viewed as the biggest douchebags. I really hope it was a blond white guy that blew these guys in.

What about Home Alone though?

[spndnchz]

15 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

What if the offender had been a young guy from UB who has a work study job in the library? Does the friend call HR at the university?

What if the person was a woman, with pink shoes, a top hat and dangle earrings? In what world or what gender, etc... would it be okay to do this?

[Stoner]

6 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Best I could do for a faux amazement, no s**t,  Sherlock sort of reaction.

(Btw: In your scenario, the offender lacks power over the person being harassed.)

Really? A man over a woman? A college boy over a waitress? Maybe he's hot and she's so-so and she feels a pressure to play along, cuz, like, why should he even be talking to me?

[Stoner]

1 minute ago, spndnchz said:

What if the person was a woman, with pink shoes, a top hat and dangle earrings? In what world or what gender, etc... would it be okay to do this?

It's not OK for anyone to do it. I don't want people to focus on the color, age and social status of the "perpetrators."

[nfreeman]

11 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Yes, let's get middle-aged white dudes to act better as a cohort without addressing how they deal with positions of privilege and power. Yes, let's.

Maybe the "cohort" doesn't need to improve its behavior.  Maybe it's just certain individuals who behave badly that need to do so.

Maybe the idea that "the cohort needs to act better" is nonsense, as is the concept of "middle-aged white dudes" having "positions of privilege and power."

[TrueBlueGED]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Thank you for your thoughtful response.  I don't think it really addresses my core point, which is that it is for some reason a substantial portion of the population thinks it's OK to slur white people (especially white men), without appreciating the destructive effects of these slurs and the worldview behind them, but I appreciate the respectful conversation in any event.

As to the bolded question -- I agree that most corp executive sexual harassers are probably white men -- but that is because most corp executives are white men.

Being a white male is oh so hard in this world. ???

[Jacque Richard]

Money and power. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Maybe the "cohort" doesn't need to improve its behavior.  Maybe it's just certain individuals who behave badly that need to do so.

Maybe the idea that "the cohort needs to act better" is nonsense, as is the concept of "middle-aged white dudes" having
"positions of privilege and power."

What?

If one is born in North America, or Europe, and you are a white male you are born into a position of privilege.  The position of power awaits, but maybe / hopefully not for long.  I am saying this as a white male born in Canada.  I am tempted to add something, but won't.  This thread is turning into a big enough disaster already.

[WildCard]

10 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Being a white male is oh so hard in this world. ???

Mean it's pretty nice, but let's not boil it all down to that.

[Stoner]

11 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Being a white male is oh so hard in this world. ???

Is that why so many are commiting suicide? Guilt, probably.

[nfreeman]

9 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Being a white male is oh so hard in this world. ???

 

5 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

What?

If one is born in North America, or Europe, and you are a white male you are born into a position of privilege.  The position of power awaits, but maybe / hopefully not for long.  I am saying this as a white male born in Canada.  I am tempted to add something, but won't.  This thread is turning into a big enough disaster already.

Of course being a white male in the US is easier on average than being a desperately poor POC in Africa or Venezuela or wherever.  But that has literally zero to do with the gibberish that is being spouted in this thread about sexual harassment in US workplaces. 

[WildCard]

7 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

What?

If one is born in North America, or Europe, and you are a white male you are born into a position of privilege.  The position of power awaits, but maybe / hopefully not for long.  I am saying this as a white male born in Canada.  I am tempted to add something, but won't.  This thread is turning into a big enough disaster already.

I think where nfreeman gets upset is when people seem to indicate that being born into something is our fault. Stereotyping every old white guy as some executive pinching a secretaries as$ is still just that, stereotyping

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

 

Of course being a white male in the US is easier on average than being a desperately poor POC in Africa or Venezuela or wherever.  But that has literally zero to do with the gibberish that is being spouted in this thread about sexual harassment in US workplaces. 

Wrong!!

[shrader]

16 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Fair point.

If I were to get into it I could come up with an arguement that one walking into a random bar and behaving as you suggested is actually doing so from a position of power, or privilage, over the other.  It would not be hard to do.

I'd also call that an over-generalization.  I think a big problem I run into when stories like this come up is that there isn't really a standardized definition of what harassment is.  What's harassment to one person isn't to the other.  My example?  Yeah, that one's obviously extreme for the sake of making the point.  But there will be countless cases out there where it's far more gray.  It's not always just privilege or power, often it's ignorance.

And before anyone tries to use this as a defense of Gilbert, I'd hope it's obvious at this point that the conversation has moved beyond the specific case.

 

Oh, and by the way, your other comment about this thread being a disaster, I don't see it at all.  Discussion on disagreements are a good thing.  The one sentence jabs might not add much, but there's something to gain from all of this.