Wyldnwoody44 Posted April 28, 2019 Report Posted April 28, 2019 Idk, I'm not as big on signing Skinner as I was earlier. He fell off a cliff and away from Eichel he really doesn't do much for the team. Were already in an overpayment mindset with talk of 8 million and I don't want it to go north of that. 2
woods-racer Posted April 28, 2019 Report Posted April 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said: Idk, I'm not as big on signing Skinner as I was earlier. He fell off a cliff and away from Eichel he really doesn't do much for the team. Were already in an overpayment mindset with talk of 8 million and I don't want it to go north of that. Over paying with contracts that are to long has already set this team back. I believe many will hate Botterill for not signing Skinner no matter the cost. I don't believe Botterill will do it if the contract is not fair for both sides. 1 1
LTS Posted April 28, 2019 Report Posted April 28, 2019 At this point, the Sabres have an offer on the table. They've basically agreed that Skinner can go out and see if he can get something better. I'm sure he'll bring that deal back to the Sabres for right of first refusal, so to speak. If it's too rich, he'll walk and that's the right call. Congratulations on Skinner getting the good deal then. If no one wants to pony up the dollars, then he'll take the deal the Sabres want. I am sure this all happens before the signing period is even started. 1 1
Taro T Posted April 28, 2019 Report Posted April 28, 2019 14 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: Not necessarily. If I were a GM I would make him my max offer but put a time limit on it so that I could plan for plan B should he turn it down. Any offer I made after that would be for less or none at all. And if Botterill were to do that, he'd guarantee Skinner wouldn't sign here. Botterill already has a "plan B" and I expect that should Skinner decide he wants to accept a better offer than the Sabres have given him, he'll let them know before July 1 & he'll offer them to match. He could get a better offer somewhere else; just having a really hard time coming up with where that would be when all things ($'s, term, linemates, closeness to home, ability to be a leader, & fit with teammates) are considered. And therefore, really expect him back. 2
PerreaultForever Posted April 29, 2019 Report Posted April 29, 2019 10 hours ago, Taro T said: And if Botterill were to do that, he'd guarantee Skinner wouldn't sign here. Botterill already has a "plan B" and I expect that should Skinner decide he wants to accept a better offer than the Sabres have given him, he'll let them know before July 1 & he'll offer them to match. He could get a better offer somewhere else; just having a really hard time coming up with where that would be when all things ($'s, term, linemates, closeness to home, ability to be a leader, & fit with teammates) are considered. And therefore, really expect him back. I don't really follow that argument. Players today all know there is a "business" side to things and they don't get their feelings hurt by business decisions. It's totally reasonable for JBot to say "we want you here, but this is as high as we can go and we need to know by this time or we have no choice but to move on. We hope you say yes." Nobody wants to get Tavares'd. Remember (and I hope JBot does too) that he told the Islanders he wanted to sign with them and then tweeted out his kid Maple Leaf PJs the day he signed with them. So we can't assume any of Skinner's I like Buffalo stuff is real. Hope it is, but.........
Taro T Posted April 29, 2019 Report Posted April 29, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: I don't really follow that argument. Players today all know there is a "business" side to things and they don't get their feelings hurt by business decisions. It's totally reasonable for JBot to say "we want you here, but this is as high as we can go and we need to know by this time or we have no choice but to move on. We hope you say yes." Nobody wants to get Tavares'd. Remember (and I hope JBot does too) that he told the Islanders he wanted to sign with them and then tweeted out his kid Maple Leaf PJs the day he signed with them. So we can't assume any of Skinner's I like Buffalo stuff is real. Hope it is, but......... There is no way that Botterill doesn't have a plan B should Skinner decide to pull up stakes for greener pastures. There's also no way that there is a major difference in how he approaches free agency based on finding out today that Skinner isn't coming back vs closer to July 1. It theoretically could effect trades he'd be willing to look at draft day, but that seems more theoretical than actual. This isn't like '07 when players couldn't talk to other teams (officially) before July 1. If Skinner isn't coming back Botterill will have a few days to implement the plan B. Giving the player an ultimatum works against the "hockey heaven" brand they are trying to build. And more likely pushes him out the door than back into the fold. Yes, Tavares said he wanted to stay on the Island PROVIDED they got their act together regarding a home rink. They didn't and he didn't. You might believe Stamkos would've stayed in Tampa had they given him an ultimatum prior to checking out FA. Whether you do or don't, I don't believe he would've. Edited April 29, 2019 by Taro T
MakeSabresGrr8Again Posted April 29, 2019 Report Posted April 29, 2019 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Taro T said: There is no way that Botterill doesn't have a plan B should Skinner decide to pull up stakes for greener pastures. There's also no way that there is a major difference in how he approaches free agency based on finding out today that Skinner isn't coming back vs closer to July 1. It theoretically could effect trades he'd be willing to look at draft day, but that seems more theoretical than actual. This isn't like '07 when players couldn't talk to other teams (officially) before July 1. If Skinner isn't coming back Botterill will have a few days to implement the plan B. Giving the player an ultimatum works against the "hockey heaven" brand they are trying to build. And more likely pushes him out the door than back into the fold. Yes, Tavares said he wanted to stay on the Island PROVIDED they got their act together regarding a home rink. They didn't and he didn't. You might believe Stamkos would've stayed in Tampa had they given him an ultimatum prior to checking out FA. Whether you do or don't, I don't believe he would've. Sure would like some idea of what "Plan B" is. Replacing a 30+ goal scorer isn't easy. Replacing one that meshes with Jack is even harder. So, maybe two 20g scorers would be the plan with the possibility of Jack making one of them better? The other one making our 2nd line better. Edited April 29, 2019 by MakeSabresGrr8Again added to post
Taro T Posted April 29, 2019 Report Posted April 29, 2019 39 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said: Sure would like some idea of what "Plan B" is. Replacing a 30+ goal scorer isn't easy. Replacing one that meshes with Jack is even harder. So, maybe two 20g scorers would be the plan with the possibility of Jack making one of them better? The other one making our 2nd line better. Would expect that part of it is Olofsson. Hopefully that wouldn't be it's entirety. If it is, should Skinner leave, so should Botterill. Right now, they need an entire 2nd line. Skinner/Vic reduce that to 2/3's of a 2nd line.
PerreaultForever Posted April 29, 2019 Report Posted April 29, 2019 9 hours ago, Taro T said: Would expect that part of it is Olofsson. Hopefully that wouldn't be it's entirety. If it is, should Skinner leave, so should Botterill. Right now, they need an entire 2nd line. Skinner/Vic reduce that to 2/3's of a 2nd line. I think you have too much hope for Olofsson. I fully expect him to be on the roster, but I expect nothing more than what we got out of Mitts this year. Maybe a few more goals if he gets PP time but not much more. I still think a 3rd line kid line is a good idea Olofsson Mittlestadt Nylander. Let them run and grow together, but also let them all have their ice time limited when needed. This idea requires solid additions up front AND Skinner. As for JBot having a plan B.........dunno. Did the Islanders? They gambled on Lehner and won, but I think their only plan B was boring shut down hockey and plan for the future.
Taro T Posted April 29, 2019 Report Posted April 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: I think you have too much hope for Olofsson. I fully expect him to be on the roster, but I expect nothing more than what we got out of Mitts this year. Maybe a few more goals if he gets PP time but not much more. I still think a 3rd line kid line is a good idea Olofsson Mittlestadt Nylander. Let them run and grow together, but also let them all have their ice time limited when needed. This idea requires solid additions up front AND Skinner. As for JBot having a plan B.........dunno. Did the Islanders? They gambled on Lehner and won, but I think their only plan B was boring shut down hockey and plan for the future. They seem to have had one.
PerreaultForever Posted April 29, 2019 Report Posted April 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, Taro T said: They seem to have had one. I really don't think so. I think they just got lucky. What I'm really thinking is Tavares was/is over rated. he's good, but not that good.
Thorner Posted April 29, 2019 Report Posted April 29, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: I really don't think so. I think they just got lucky. What I'm really thinking is Tavares was/is over rated. he's good, but not that good. I don’t think Tavares’s talent and ability is overrated, but I think the value, the affect on the end results one single player can represent in a lineup sometimes is. Does hockey have a WAR stat similar to baseball? Edited April 30, 2019 by Thorny
#freejame Posted April 30, 2019 Report Posted April 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, Thorny said: I don’t think Tavares’s talent and ability is overrated, but I think the value, the affect on the end results one single player can represent in a lineup sometimes is. Does hockey have a WAR stat similar to baseball? In a similar vein, does hockey have rate stats?
PerreaultForever Posted April 30, 2019 Report Posted April 30, 2019 5 hours ago, Thorny said: I don’t think Tavares’s talent and ability is overrated, but I think the value, the affect on the end results one single player can represent in a lineup sometimes is. Aside from goalies, that is true, it is a team sport and any roster that relies on one guy (perhaps named Jack) will have problems. Tavares was overrated in the sense that he was supposed to have made everyone around him better, but it would seem that some of those guys were pretty good on their own.
Gatorman0519 Posted April 30, 2019 Report Posted April 30, 2019 It’s starting to look like Skinner is going to the market. Short term that is bad news. Long term... I’m not digging 8 years $9 million if that’s the case. I don’t think he is a regular 40 goal guy.
Zamboni Posted April 30, 2019 Report Posted April 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said: It’s starting to look like Skinner is going to the market. Short term that is bad news. Long term... I’m not digging 8 years $9 million if that’s the case. I don’t think he is a regular 40 goal guy. No one is saying 9 mil. At least not in the past 3 months. Skinner will get from some team a max or near max term. And be at 7.5-8.5 per. i would be shocked if it was lower or higher than that window.
Gatorman0519 Posted April 30, 2019 Report Posted April 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, Zamboni said: No one is saying 9 mil. At least not in the past 3 months. Skinner will get from some team a max or near max term. And be at 7.5-8.5 per. i would be shocked if it was lower or higher than that window. $8.5 is still crippling 4-5 years from now. There are not many Ovechkins that can produce like that well into their 30’s. The likelihood is he hits the wall.
Derrico Posted April 30, 2019 Report Posted April 30, 2019 38 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said: $8.5 is still crippling 4-5 years from now. There are not many Ovechkins that can produce like that well into their 30’s. The likelihood is he hits the wall. This!! I would pay closer to $9 per if we're talking a 5 year term. If it's 7 or 8 years then no thanks to anything over $7.5 at max. 1
Zamboni Posted April 30, 2019 Report Posted April 30, 2019 Since the Buffalo News Sports dept. has lost a lot of their “better” writers/reporters, I wonder what bridges they still have intact to have “credible sources” to make any kind of valid and truthful claim regarding anything “behind the scenes”. Is Lance any good? Or is he another Sullivan or Harrington?
Brawndo Posted April 30, 2019 Report Posted April 30, 2019 40 minutes ago, Zamboni said: Since the Buffalo News Sports dept. has lost a lot of their “better” writers/reporters, I wonder what bridges they still have intact to have “credible sources” to make any kind of valid and truthful claim regarding anything “behind the scenes”. Is Lance any good? Or is he another Sullivan or Harrington? He’s relatively new, started at the end of October after covering The Pirates for DK Sports in Pittsburgh. After the changes in Buffalo News, it would make sense for the Sabres to have a relationship with the new guy as The Buffalo News is a major source of information for some of their fan base. At the very least it might piss off Harrington. He does seem more engaged in the team, as he writes articles about draft prospects, potential free agents and other possible suitors for Skinner. He also is engaging with fans across multiple social media platforms. 1
nucci Posted April 30, 2019 Report Posted April 30, 2019 On 4/28/2019 at 4:47 PM, Taro T said: And if Botterill were to do that, he'd guarantee Skinner wouldn't sign here. Botterill already has a "plan B" and I expect that should Skinner decide he wants to accept a better offer than the Sabres have given him, he'll let them know before July 1 & he'll offer them to match. He could get a better offer somewhere else; just having a really hard time coming up with where that would be when all things ($'s, term, linemates, closeness to home, ability to be a leader, & fit with teammates) are considered. And therefore, really expect him back. what about a winning team?
Taro T Posted April 30, 2019 Report Posted April 30, 2019 3 hours ago, nucci said: what about a winning team? What about it? Team had the best record in the league back just after Thanksgiving. Better coaching providing a better PP, a new 2nd line, & getting the goaltending they had prior to Hutton getting injured & this team should make the playoffs. Once you're in, anything can happen. None of those are givens, but it's not like any are impossibilities either. And how many winning teams have the cap room & need for a 35 GS & the rest to not only make him an offer better than what Buffalo offers but also to make it better overall via the intangibles? 1
nucci Posted April 30, 2019 Report Posted April 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Taro T said: What about it? Team had the best record in the league back just after Thanksgiving. Better coaching providing a better PP, a new 2nd line, & getting the goaltending they had prior to Hutton getting injured & this team should make the playoffs. Once you're in, anything can happen. None of those are givens, but it's not like any are impossibilities either. And how many winning teams have the cap room & need for a 35 GS & the rest to not only make him an offer better than what Buffalo offers but also to make it better overall via the intangibles? Maybe he wants to play for a winning team.Obviously better coaching, better PP, new 2nd line...better goaltending...should make the playoffs.....basically a better team? We've been hoping for this for a few years now
Taro T Posted April 30, 2019 Report Posted April 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, nucci said: Maybe he wants to play for a winning team.Obviously better coaching, better PP, new 2nd line...better goaltending...should make the playoffs.....basically a better team? We've been hoping for this for a few years now Maybe he ####### does and he leaves. More money for the 3rd part of that upgraded 2nd line.
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