Jbot Do Something Already - 4 Saving the Playoffs Edition

[inkman]

No 10 game win streak, no mandate from the fan base for the playoffs. Coming into the season we were all content on having a team competing for the playoffs without standing on a ledge waiting to jump if it wasn't so. We have exactly what we set the season out to have. A team competing for the playoffs. People's short-sightedness is amazing. It's like a plague.  

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, inkman said:

No 10 game win streak, no mandate from the fan base for the playoffs. Coming into the season we were all content on having a team competing for the playoffs without standing on a ledge waiting to jump if it wasn't so. We have exactly what we set the season out to have. A team competing for the playoffs. People's short-sightedness is amazing. It's like a plague.  

True.

But they also are minus a (relatively) significant piece of the plan for both this season AND next season & to keep from straining the rest of the assets too severely, that piece needs to be replaced sooner than later.

Forcing guys to play roles they aren't ready for doesn't spur their development.  (Ristolainen & the Edmonton Eulers of the past decade say 'hi.' ;))

[Ducky]

Staal will be an UFA this summer and he is the one I would be going after if I am JBot but I wouldn't give him more than 2 years and he probably will get more. He's got 70 goals and 71 assists in the last two seasons playing for the Wild. I'd love to see him in a Jets uni for the next two seasons.

No use giving up draft picks just because you have lots of them. Keep your picks and draft well and have patience. Trade your picks and prospects when you are contending. If I'm Buffalo, I go after Staal in free agency. He'd make an excellent 2C while youngsters develop.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Ducky

[inkman]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

True.

But they also are minus a (relatively) significant piece of the plan for both this season AND next season & to keep from straining the rest of the assets too severely, that piece needs to be replaced sooner than later.

Forcing guys to play roles they aren't ready for doesn't spur their development.  (Ristolainen & the Edmonton Eulers of the past decade say 'hi.' ;))

Berglund and Mittlestadt were non factors from the onset on the season. It was apparent in October there was a major hole in this line up. So JBOT has known his team has serious flaws since the first puck drop. I don't think the cavarly is coming. 

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, inkman said:

Berglund and Mittlestadt were non factors from the onset on the season. It was apparent in October there was a major hole in this line up. So JBOT has known his team has serious flaws since the first puck drop. I don't think the cavarly is coming.

Could be correct.  Won't change my mind that they should be.

[DarthEbriate]

4 hours ago, darksabre said:

Okay, but what team is giving up a middle six center right now? Most teams with players we would want for that role are still eyeing the playoffs. They aren't selling yet. We're stuck waiting because Berglund left us hanging. 

It's true. (All of it.) Berglund might not have been providing 2C points, but he could have been projected to do so. Everyone else is still alive, and they're not moving a 2C at rental rates yet. By the time other teams are willing to go rental rates, it could be too late for our playoff aspirations.

However, JBot is a cutthroat Lobot-ized GM. He knows this season is not the season. He cannot care about whatever "suffering" we've had. His job is to build a team for the future around the very young core. He would be foolish (and I hope he doesn't) to give up any of our 3 first round picks. Don't "go for it" now. It might be nice to make the playoffs, but it's more important to be excellent (and maximize the potential of Cup runs) by supplementing an already good roster with those 3 1st round picks in two years.

[inkman]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Could be correct.  Won't change my mind that they should be.

I'd love to see Eichel's Hawerchuk, the perfect compliment for Mr. LaFontaine.

[DarthEbriate]

5 minutes ago, inkman said:

I'd love to see Eichel's Hawerchuk, the perfect compliment for Mr. LaFontaine.

Mittelstadt in 2 years?

(Or a 2020 2nd + a prospect for rental-Staal?)

[LGR4GM]

Omg, NO to Toews and his horrible contract. Talk about building a team wrong. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

With all the "culture" change talk it makes me curious .....does anyone know if Skinner and Staal got along when in Carolina? They both seem to be good teammates and I would assume they might have. Would be nice to have some confirmation before any trade for Staal went down.

@GASabresIUFAN  ...you suggested that a 2nd and AHL'er like Bailey might get it done. With the Dumba injury you might try a Dman instead of Bailey. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by MakeSabresGrr8Again
typo

[GASabresIUFAN]

13 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

With all the "culture" change talk it makes me curious .....does anyone know if Skinner and Staal got along when in Carolina? They both seem to be good teammates and I would assume they might have. Would be nice to have some confirmation before any trade for Staal went down.

@GASabresIUFAN  ...you suggested that a 2nd and AHL'er like Bailey might get it done. With the Dumba injury you might try a Dman instead of Bailey. 

OK so Guhle and a 3rd.

[inkman]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

OK so Guhle and a 3rd.

I gotta think they'd want someone for this season.  Maybe not in this deal tho.

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

The fact that Casey is likely two years away from actually being a 2nd line centre is evidence that we may need to use our ammunition to shoot higher than stopgaps like Staal.

People talk about Patrick Kane all the time. The player that actually is a better fit is Jonathan Toews.

He’s not the player He was hyped to be and he is drastically overpaid. But he is also ROR without the suicide watch. He’s got four years left on a deal where he can be an excellent 2 for 2 years and an excellent 3 for two years.

Obvious cap dancing needed, but the Hawks need a reset. Depends on the price, but I’d make the call. He’s a perfect fit, roster-wise.

Oh, yes.  Yes please with sugar on top.

Some facts:

- Toews will turn 31 at the end of April. 

- He's scored 20 goals or more every year in his 11-year career.

- In his last 3 seasons, he had 58, 58 and 52 pts -- and has 37 pts in 43 games this year. 

- He's 6'2", 201 lbs.

- 2-time Canadian Olympian

- Captained the Blackhawks to 3 cups, won the Conn Smythe in one of them

He would be an incredible addition and a great #2 center.

I would give Chicago Guhle, Nylander and a #1 for him, but they have to take Okposo.  And if they wanted McCabe instead of Guhle, I would probably agree.

 

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Toews is a pie in the sky idea and likely isn’t necessary.  Casey could be ready as early as next year.  Regardless, the stop gaps I mentioned, such as Bozak, Johansson and Staal could all be perfect for not only this season but the next 2 years after.  Staal and Johansson are UFAs and if they fit and succeed you extend them.  If not, you move on. 

I think Jbot’s vision is a 1-2-3 of Jack Casey and Asplund, but this might not come to into focus until 2020-21, but can get close to that vision with just one move now. 

A lot of things *could* happen, but Mitts looks miles away from being an effective #2 center.

I don't mind the Staal idea and it probably is more realistic than Toews.

I don't want Bozek under any circumstances.

 

9 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

With all the "culture" change talk it makes me curious .....does anyone know if Skinner and Staal got along when in Carolina? They both seem to be good teammates and I would assume they might have. Would be nice to have some confirmation before any trade for Staal went down.

@GASabresIUFAN  ...you suggested that a 2nd and AHL'er like Bailey might get it done. With the Dumba injury you might try a Dman instead of Bailey. 

Good call.  I'm sure JB would speak with Skinner about Staal before making a move.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I'm glad the consensus is moving toward Jbot doing something ASAP.  

[inkman]

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'm glad the consensus is moving toward Jbot doing something ASAP.  

Good things our opinions will make a difference

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

Kudos to @GAsabrefan for starting this thread. Threads are made for discussions like this (and arguments that come out of it). However, I'm considering taking him off my Christmas card list because this thread really has me torn like a piece of paper through a micro-shredder, LOL.

It has me wanting to react and post comments on nearly every post and intertwines with some of the other threads on these boards. The O'Reilly trade, the Berglund escape, Prospects, team needs, team culture,  etc,etc. 

Some points I'd like to make...

Not a fan of the Bozak idea.

I think the Staal idea is ok.

I would also love the Toews trade but if you give away KO and Nylander what kind of production do you get from Toews/Mitts with the forwards that are left? Is Mitts not producing because he doesn't have quality wingers or are the wingers not producing because Mitts isn't ready yet (or both)? I think Toews would be a good one for Casey to learn from but with Casey as the 3C with crappy wingers won't help a whole lot. Another move/ call-up would likely need to be done. That is what has me torn, the idea of developing Casey is the problem. Do you play him at 2C with better wingers or 3C  and hope for the best.  If you go with the 3C route, then a good 2C to guide him AND help our 2ndary scoring is necessary. Toews would probably fit the bill, I just don't see that happening though.

As a fan these situations can really have you torn. On one hand you want success now (mostly because of the streak) while on the other hand wanting the future success to continue for years to come. Speaking of the streak...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxUfg3uCBbg

 

[Ducky]

Staal will cost more than a 2nd and a prospect...I think he will cost a 1st + which is why I thought the Sabres should wait until the off-season.

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Staal will cost more than a 2nd and a prospect...I think he will cost a 1st + which is why I thought the Sabres should wait until the off-season.

No he won't.  We traded Kane for a conditional 2nd, an AHLer and a 4th.  We acquired Skinner for a middle prospect, a 2nd, a 3rd and a 6th.  These guys are in their prime with years left ahead of them. No way Staal gets a 1st for a 34 year old player.  Not happening.  

26 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Kudos to @GAsabrefan for starting this thread. Threads are made for discussions like this (and arguments that come out of it). However, I'm considering taking him off my Christmas card list because this thread really has me torn like a piece of paper through a micro-shredder, LOL.

It has me wanting to react and post comments on nearly every post and intertwines with some of the other threads on these boards. The O'Reilly trade, the Berglund escape, Prospects, team needs, team culture,  etc,etc. 

Some points I'd like to make...

Not a fan of the Bozak idea.

I think the Staal idea is ok.

I would also love the Toews trade but if you give away KO and Nylander what kind of production do you get from Toews/Mitts with the forwards that are left? Is Mitts not producing because he doesn't have quality wingers or are the wingers not producing because Mitts isn't ready yet (or both)? I think Toews would be a good one for Casey to learn from but with Casey as the 3C with crappy wingers won't help a whole lot. Another move/ call-up would likely need to be done. That is what has me torn, the idea of developing Casey is the problem. Do you play him at 2C with better wingers or 3C  and hope for the best.  If you go with the 3C route, then a good 2C to guide him AND help our 2ndary scoring is necessary. Toews would probably fit the bill, I just don't see that happening though.

As a fan these situations can really have you torn. On one hand you want success now (mostly because of the streak) while on the other hand wanting the future success to continue for years to come. Speaking of the streak...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxUfg3uCBbg

 

So I should be waiting on a XMas card?  Don't be torn.  This is one of the few time with the right value move we can have our cake and eat it too.  Trade for a Staal or Johansson and you keep the 4 picks, protect Mitts this season, improve your center play and have no long term commitment.  Perfect.  Get a Coyle or Couterier and it will cost you one of the firsts, but like Skinner you get a guy in his prime that truly enhances the team long-term as well as short.  I'd love to see Couterier step in behind Eichel.  

If Jbot continues to do nothing, I hope PH keeps trying different lineup combos.  Maybe even put Sam back at center and try Mitts as jack's RW to try to get him going.

Edited January 7, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

15 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No he won't.  We traded Kane for a conditional 2nd, an AHLer and a 4th.  We acquired Skinner for a middle prospect, a 2nd, a 3rd and a 6th.  These guys are in their prime with years left ahead of them. No way Staal gets a 1st for a 34 year old player.  Not happening.  

So I should be waiting on a XMas card?  Don't be torn.  This is one of the few time with the right value move we can have our cake and eat it too.  Trade for a Staal or Johansson and you keep the 4 picks, protect Mitts this season, improve your center play and have no long term commitment.  Perfect.  Get a Coyle or Couterier and it will cost you one of the firsts, but like Skinner you get a guy in his prime that truly enhances the team long-term as well as short.  I'd love to see Couterier step in behind Eichel.  

All true, but it depends on what you give up to get that piece. It doesn't matter which 2C you get, are they gonna be effective enough with the wingers we have to make that much of a difference? Hence, I made the comment about "is it Mitts" or "is it the wingers (or both)? I tend to lean more towards the "both", which leads me to believe that we need to be very selective in who we go after and what we give up, all while considering if another move needs to be made.

Edited January 7, 2019 by MakeSabresGrr8Again

[inkman]

30 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Kudos to @GAsabrefan for starting this thread. Threads are made for discussions like this (and arguments that come out of it). However, I'm considering taking him off my Christmas card list because this thread really has me torn like a piece of paper through a micro-shredder, LOL.

It has me wanting to react and post comments on nearly every post and intertwines with some of the other threads on these boards. The O'Reilly trade, the Berglund escape, Prospects, team needs, team culture,  etc,etc. 

Some points I'd like to make...

Not a fan of the Bozak idea.

I think the Staal idea is ok.

I would also love the Toews trade but if you give away KO and Nylander what kind of production do you get from Toews/Mitts with the forwards that are left? Is Mitts not producing because he doesn't have quality wingers or are the wingers not producing because Mitts isn't ready yet (or both)? I think Toews would be a good one for Casey to learn from but with Casey as the 3C with crappy wingers won't help a whole lot. Another move/ call-up would likely need to be done. That is what has me torn, the idea of developing Casey is the problem. Do you play him at 2C with better wingers or 3C  and hope for the best.  If you go with the 3C route, then a good 2C to guide him AND help our 2ndary scoring is necessary. Toews would probably fit the bill, I just don't see that happening though.

As a fan these situations can really have you torn. On one hand you want success now (mostly because of the streak) while on the other hand wanting the future success to continue for years to come. Speaking of the streak...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxUfg3uCBbg

 

I would put Casey on Jack's wing. Let Skinner play with the new guy. Larsson and Erod your other centers.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 minute ago, inkman said:

I would put Casey on Jack's wing. Let Skinner play with the new guy. Larsson and Erod your other centers.

I think I'd rather move Reinhart instead of breaking up J&J.

[...]

I'm a little...no, a lot...scared of this talk about Mitts being "ready", and banking on that happening.  There is no way I would bank on him becoming anything in the NHL right now.  Contrast Mitts' development to Dahlin's, TT's, Pilut's, or Ullmark's, just on our team alone.  Look across the NHL at the development of other rookies.  I don't think Mitts should be the automatic write in for 2C.

Another issue: who is our trade bait for something like this?  I think we all should be sick and tired of getting back players who are busts, so we'll need to pony-up to get a quality player back who will actually make a difference.

I think we're talking TT, Pilut, McCabe, Larry, Samson (yes, I said it) or the like if you want a difference-make back.  That's what's being asked for here, is a return that will make a difference.  You're talking a first and maybe a second, at least a first, plus a good player to get someone worthwhile back.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by ...
The Central Scrutinizer hath spoken.

[In The Buff]

Some posts here are looking for just a 1 or 2 year rental so to speak that can push us over the edge. Others are looking for more of a longer term player.

What we all share is that our GM should do something, while not veering off course for our long term plans. I think we could do it & I have faith in JBots that if a deal appears worthy he'll pull the trigger.

I'm of the mindset that no season should be written off & if youre in striking distance of the playoffs you need to take advantage of it. Because theres no guarantees for future success ever. 1998-99 we made our Cup run. Most of us probably thought we had many more coming. Whenever you have a chance at being in the playoffs you gotta try to make the most of it imo. If we can get some scoring help that won't disrupt our long term plans I think you gotta go for it.

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, Ducky said:

Staal will be an UFA this summer and he is the one I would be going after if I am JBot but I wouldn't give him more than 2 years and he probably will get more. He's got 70 goals and 71 assists in the last two seasons playing for the Wild. I'd love to see him in a Jets uni for the next two seasons.

No use giving up draft picks just because you have lots of them. Keep your picks and draft well and have patience. Trade your picks and prospects when you are contending. If I'm Buffalo, I go after Staal in free agency. He'd make an excellent 2C while youngsters develop.

That's key, but as a Jets fan you'll know how much that first playoff experience helped that young team learn, even if they took a step back the following year.

It's about getting in. 

[Thorner]

Also, has it been mentioned that it looks like Reinhart is now hurt? Didn't participate in the festivities today.