Playing themselves out of a playoff spot.

[Weave]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Wouldn't go so far as to say they were mailing in the effort for a period or 2 of those other games, but they weren't able to, for large stretches, to match the intensity when their opponent got their legs really moving (just like their opponents couldn't match THEIR intensity for large stretches).  Though we tend to imply the Sabres play is what dictates play, that's only 1/2 of it, & games ebb & flow.  (That wasn't intended to read as ####ishly as it likely does.)  Which made for really entertaining games.  

And, especially with 2C being covered by Mittelstadt/committee, don't know that we could ask for more at that time.

Provided Mittelstadt can get his confidence back, Dahlin finds a 2nd wind, & Pilut & Thompson continue to grow; & they get/ stay healthy &/or (& being preferable ;)) get that upgrade at 2C they can continue at the 12 point / 10 game pace which should get them in the playoffs.  And, especially had Berglund not walked away, IMHO it wasn't inevitable that they'd struggle down the stretch because the kids are learning and still growing.  It stillisn't setin stone they have to struggle.  (Come on Botterill, bring in the cavalry.)

 

Mailing in has implications that weren't intended.  Call it for lack of a better phrase.

[Stoner]

How much does Botterill's (relative) inactivity play into the mindset of the team? For a lot of guys, it has to be smelling a lot like recent seasons that "weren't about this season." Conversely a trade, even a modest one, would likely spark the team for at least a few games. And really that's all they might need to get things back on track.

[Taro T]

17 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

How much does Botterill's (relative) inactivity play into the mindset of the team? For a lot of guys, it has to be smelling a lot like recent seasons that "weren't about this season." Conversely a trade, even a modest one, would likely spark the team for at least a few games. And really that's all they might need to get things back on track.

That could play into the mindset.  OR the mindset could be, we're a family, we don't NEED outsiders, and we don't WANT outsiders.  We're still in a playoff spot & WE'LL figure out how to stay there.

Don't know that's what it is.  Merely playing devil's advocate to our resident devil's advocate. ;)  Considering I've been on board with the "bringin a 2C NOW" crowd, kind of hoping that ISN'T what it is. ;)

But, considering how few moves have been made this year even when things aren't going quite right - Elie, Tennyson, Pilut, Smith, Guhle, & Wedgewood brought in or up (ottomh), maybe there's a grain of truth to it.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

How much does Botterill's (relative) inactivity play into the mindset of the team? For a lot of guys, it has to be smelling a lot like recent seasons that "weren't about this season." Conversely a trade, even a modest one, would likely spark the team for at least a few games. And really that's all they might need to get things back on track.

And that is the point.  This team needs to know that the GM has their backs and will fix problems as the arise.  Sitting on his hands right now sends the wrong message IMHO.

[Thorner]

14 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Forget the streak. Where's the team that was still playing with its hair on fire against Nashville, Tampa, Toronto after the streak? That team would have rolled Florida, Philadelphia, the Islanders.

Even before the streak, the Sabres were looking pretty decent. They seemed to be on the upswing with the potential promise of more wins coming, even if a streak of the magnitude that followed hadn't entered our day dreams.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Thorny

[Carmel Corn]

To make the playoffs:

1. Find a legit 2C solution before we slide down to 9th, 10th, 11th, etc.

2. Fix the powerplay (they have the skill, but IMHO the coaching is suspect here)

3. Consistent effort vs. long lapses of coasting and watching the other team's skate around you.  I dread the second period of each game especially.

To succeed in the playoffs:

4. See 1, 2 and 3 above plus

5. Figure out a way to add some sand and grit to this team.  Look at the Cap's as an example...Wilson is a wrecking machine, their stars play with an edge.  Skill and grit combined!

 

 

 

[darksabre]

14 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

And that is the point.  This team needs to know that the GM has their backs and will fix problems as the arise.  Sitting on his hands right now sends the wrong message IMHO.

You're better than these bad assumptions. How do you know he's sitting on his hands? How do you know he isn't working the phones to try to get something done?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

6 minutes ago, darksabre said:

You're better than these bad assumptions. How do you know he's sitting on his hands? How do you know he isn't working the phones to try to get something done?

Each and every GM in the NHL, or whatever league, are never just standing / sitting around. 

[darksabre]

18 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Each and every GM in the NHL, or whatever league, are never just standing / sitting around. 

Right.

And I think if you were to ask players and GMs about each other, each would deflect and say it's their job to do the best they can for the team. GMs aren't going to start wars with their players because they have bad nights, and players aren't likely sitting around wondering why their GM isn't pulling off huge trades all the time. Both parties know that the other's job isn't easy.

I doubt the players are giving much thought to what Botterill is/isn't doing to fill the Berglund hole. They likely believe they can win without Bergs and they're going to work on making that happen.

And if they are, for some reason, fretting about what Botterill is doing, I would advise them to perhaps consider spending that time figuring out how to score on the power play...

[GASabresIUFAN]

30 minutes ago, darksabre said:

You're better than these bad assumptions. How do you know he's sitting on his hands? How do you know he isn't working the phones to try to get something done?

If he waits until the trade deadline to make a more that is the definition of sitting on his hands.  That would be allowing this incomplete roster to flounder for another 20% of the season.

Do I know for sure that he isn’t working on a deal right now.  No of course not.  However, the forward secondary scoring has been a problem the entire season and he has literally done nothing to address it.  Nothing.  He hasn’t even tried any internal solutions.  This indicates to me, as I watch other GMs make deals, that he is ok with the failing status quo and that is not OK when we are trying to develop a winning culture.

[darksabre]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

If he waits until the trade deadline to make a more that is the definition of sitting on his hands.  That would be allowing this incomplete roster to flounder for another 20% of the season.

Do I know for sure that he isn’t working on a deal right now.  No of course not.  However, the forward secondary scoring has been a problem the entire season and he has literally done nothing to address it.  Nothing.  He hasn’t even tried any internal solutions.  This indicates to me, as I watch other GMs make deals, that he is ok with the failing status quo and that is not OK when we are trying to develop a winning culture.

A couple of middling trades happen and you think Botterill is missing the boat?

Step off the ledge man.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

A couple of middling trades happen and you think Botterill is missing the boat?

Step off the ledge man.

Except those GMs didn’t have their middle center walk away.  This GM has had this happen and needs to address it and hasn’t.  I hope he proves me wrong and addresses it soon, but I think he waits until the trade deadline and odds are it will be to late by then.

[dudacek]

Deals don’t happen just because you want them to. Both teams have to like the components of the deal, the contracts have to work, the timing has to work, both the short-term and the long-term have to be considered and he is competing against 30 other GMs to make the best offer.

Take Eric Staal:

Minnesota has to make a decision whether or not he is part of their future.

If he’s not, they have to decide if they are keeping him in order to make a playoff run or dumping him to get an asset.

If they are dumping him, they have to shop him around to see what the offers are.

They have to scout the offers and confirm their impressions of the pieces on the table.

They have to decide which offers are best and play the suitors off against each other to see if they can get a better offer.

They have to decide if the best offer is worth doing.

They have to decide whether they are better off taking an offer now, or waiting to see if offers improve.

Meanwhile, the Sabres have to go through a similar process.

Botterill probably could get Staal right now by being aggressive and offering up two firsts. But few of us would be happy with that call. Minnesota is probably not going to take the first 2nd round pick on the table a month before the deadline. Why would they?

Even if we are committed buyers I am not convinced there are many committed sellers. Other GMs have their own plans and the deadline affects how they implement them.

Sometimes the process has to play itself out.

Edited January 7, 2019 by dudacek

[darksabre]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Except those GMs didn’t have their middle center walk away.  This GM has had this happen and needs to address it and hasn’t.  I hope he proves me wrong and addresses it soon, but I think he waits until the trade deadline and odds are it will be to late by then.

He hasn't addressed it yet. That's the only argument you're able to make right now. That you don't like that he hasn't addressed it yet.

I don't really know what you want other than for JBots to be a magician who can just materialize the deal he wants out of a hat.

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Deals don’t happen just because you want them to. Both teams have to like the components of the deal, the contracts have to work, the timing has to work, both the short-term and the long-term have to be considered and he is competing against 30 other GMs to make the best offer.

Take Eric Staal:

Minnesota has to make a decision whether or not he is part of their future.

If he’s not, they have to decide if they are keeping him in order to make a playoff run or dumping him to get an asset.

If they are dumping him, they have to shop him around to see what the offers are.

They have to scout the offers and confirm their impressions of the pieces on the table.

They have to decide which offers are best and play the suitors off against each other to see if they can get a better offer.

They have to decide if the best offer is worth doing.

They have to decide whether they are better off taking an offer now, or waiting to see if offers improve.

Meanwhile, the Sabres have to go through a similar process.

Botterill probably could get Staal right now by being aggressive and offering up two firsts. But few of us would be happy with that call. Minnesota is probably not going to take the first 2nd round pick on the table a month before the deadline. Why would they?

Sometimes the process has to play itself out.

Thank you.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Yes it takes two to tango.  Always has.  That doesn’t change the urgency of getting something done if he wants to try to bolster this team while they are in a playoff spot.  My point has always been that if he waits until the trade deadline he is throwing the good work done early this year away and that sends the wrong message.  Might he have to “overpay” to get a deal done now? Maybe, but what is the value of making the playoffs this season?  

Edited January 7, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yes it takes two to tango.  Always has.  That doesn’t change the urgency of getting something done if he wants to try to bolster this team while they are in a playoff spot.  My point has always been that if he waits until the trade deadline he is throwing the good work down early this year away and that sends the wrong message.  Might he have to “overpay” to get a deal done now? Maybe, but what is the value of making the playoffs this season?  

I think you are weighing to separate assets against each other. The 1st round pick or whatever gets traded against the playoffs. 

[darksabre]

18 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yes it takes two to tango.  Always has.  That doesn’t change the urgency of getting something done if he wants to try to bolster this team while they are in a playoff spot.  My point has always been that if he waits until the trade deadline he is throwing the good work done early this year away and that sends the wrong message.  Might he have to “overpay” to get a deal done now? Maybe, but what is the value of making the playoffs this season?  

I attribute little value to making the playoffs this season, especially if it comes at a large cost.

The Bills made the playoffs last year even though they shouldn't have and it doesn't seem to have helped them at all...

I'm not interested in throwing away the future of this team just to make the playoffs this year with a squad that can't score a power play goal to save its life.

I want Botterill to build this team right. So that they go to the playoffs many years in a row once they finally do get there.

[SwampD]

If Jack comes back, I have a feeling that we are all going to be a little more at ease about our playoff hopes heading into the All Star/Bye break.

With such a young team, I think they get into trouble when they have time to think. This stretch of 5 games in 8 days will be perfect for them to stop thinking and just play. I hope they are as fried after it as they were the last time they had one of these stretches.

A proven 2C would be great, but it would be even better if they could develop and figure it out on there own.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yes it takes two to tango.  Always has.  That doesn’t change the urgency of getting something done if he wants to try to bolster this team while they are in a playoff spot.  My point has always been that if he waits until the trade deadline he is throwing the good work done early this year away and that sends the wrong message.  Might he have to “overpay” to get a deal done now? Maybe, but what is the value of making the playoffs this season?  

What good work done early this year are you referring to? Just curious so that I'm not responding to the wrong thing.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

What good work done early this year are you referring to? Just curious so that I'm not responding to the wrong thing.

 

A team going from worst to a playoff position by Mid-season.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

38 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

A team going from worst to a playoff position by Mid-season.

Pretty generic.....thought you were talking about something more specific that you considered to be the reason behind that success or something JB did to support that happening.

 

[apuszczalowski]

On 1/3/2019 at 1:14 PM, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I think he is looking at the possibility of falling even farther. With the cushion over the Rags/FLA being enough to hold them off at least for a little while longer.

That's also assuming the Sabs lose.

But isnt that what we are all supposed to cheer for? If tour not a cup favorite your supposed to tank for a better pick, it's the only way to make a championship team!

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

But isnt that what we are all supposed to cheer for? If tour not a cup favorite your supposed to tank for a better pick, it's the only way to make a championship team!

This kids is called hyperbole 

[apuszczalowski]

9 hours ago, darksabre said:

I attribute little value to making the playoffs this season, especially if it comes at a large cost.

The Bills made the playoffs last year even though they shouldn't have and it doesn't seem to have helped them at all...

I'm not interested in throwing away the future of this team just to make the playoffs this year with a squad that can't score a power play goal to save its life.

I want Botterill to build this team right. So that they go to the playoffs many years in a row once they finally do get there.

You cant compare it to the Bill's, right or wrong, they decided to continue dismantling the team this offseason instead of building off of what they accomplished last year. We will see if it works out in their favour or if it would have been smarter to build with what they had.

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

This kids is called hyperbole 

But for so long in Buffalo it's been all about getting the best picks cause finishing in the middle, or just making the playoffs doesnt do anything good and keeps the team from getting better cause they dont get a high pick....

[apuszczalowski]

8 hours ago, SwampD said:

If Jack comes back, I have a feeling that we are all going to be a little more at ease about our playoff hopes heading into the All Star/Bye break.

With such a young team, I think they get into trouble when they have time to think. This stretch of 5 games in 8 days will be perfect for them to stop thinking and just play. I hope they are as fried after it as they were the last time they had one of these stretches.

A proven 2C would be great, but it would be even better if they could develop and figure it out on there own.

Hes only been gone a couple games, the problems were the same with him here and with him away. His return isnt going to change much. They have one good line and that's it, they need to start bolstering the rest of the team...