Berglund on Waivers with Purpose to Terminate His Contract

[SwampD]

39 minutes ago, LTS said:

Yeah, just rip the dude without knowing the story.  Good call.

It may turn out that he's all sour grapes, but why assume it?  The fact that there's little to no news about him makes me think that there is indeed something going on. 

Even better, you are actually pissed off about it?  Wow.

So, we should be happy that the return we thought we were getting back for ROR, we didn't get?

He still quit, and I'm a little miffed, as well. If he wants to tell us that he had a good reason, he has that option. Until then, he can suck it.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree.  I think Jbot thought at 30 he had enough left to give us a reasonable 2c for this season as Mitts learned in the NHL and then 3c for years 2 and 3 depending on how Asplund or Davidsson developed.  

If that was the plan and since he is gone,  doesn’t Jbot have to do something to fix this hole?

 

Agree with that.  This whole Berglund episode strikes me as something that messes with the plan causing short term pain but in the long run will work out better than the original plan.

Been trying to come up with an analogy, and about the best (Extremely relatively speaking) that's come to mind is someone that plans to go to community college because they don't have the money to make an Ivy League school work and sets down the road towards the community college (using an eh older vet at 2C because there aren't any better options (neglecting for the moment the elephant in the room that was not only available but in house) for the short term while waiting for Mittelstadt to mature to the point of playing that position even though that will create cap issues down the road when cap space starts to become valuable) at the last minute gets a scholarship that almost makes the Ivy League school as affordable as the community college (that cap hit down the road is gone and cap space even frees up at present as well) but there's no money in the budget for that additional cost of the school (not even having that eh vet around to play 2C in a pinch) so that student needs to either find an extra job to come up with that money (figure a way to make somebody that isn't a 2C that is in house at some level a serviceable 2C) or take a loan (give up a package to get either a 2C that fits in LT or a pending UFA to fit in ST) to keep from overworking yourself short term realizing the loan will have to be paid later if it's taken out.

Botterill & Housley has so far been trying to work the extra job (forcing Mittelstadt into the role he knows that he's not ready for) and Housley is just now trying to take on a different part time job (trying Larsson in that 2C role).  IF they can make that work and not flunk out of school (i.e., make the playoffs), that's the plan with the best long term return as they still have ALL their assets and will have that nice shiny degree (they'll have had guys perform well enough to get through this and they'll have gained additional confidence moving forward).  But that is a BIG IF.  Still seems to me that a better solution would be to take out a small loan (say a 2nd round pick and a middling prospect) for one of those pending UFA's that could fill the role they need now and possibly even re-sign in the offseason to make sure they don't fail out (miss the playoffs).  Then they continue to gain the benefits of their better situation and only have a small loan (lack of a roll of the die on a guy that might help 4 years from now) holding them back from being fully debt free.  (Well minus that credit card binge trip out to the Hamptons, aka Okposo, that isn't terribly costly now but will look real bad when the balloon payment is due and the introductory rate on the card goes away.)

And though Botterill said he wouldn't spend any capital on a pending UFA, the situation on the ground $'s wise and personnel wise has morphed significantly since Berglund walked away.  So, though a blanket - we will not go out and pursue a pending UFA made sense, it may no longer make sense.  Especially if a reasonable deal is available.  And who knows what's going on behind the scenes elsewhere; maybe there's a younger guy that could be available now for a reasonable price that would again make it make sense to send a package out to obtain.

Had Berglund stayed, they'd've been in better shape ST especially with Eichel out ST, but 3 years from now they'd have an expensive 4th liner still hanging around - heck they'd had an expensive 4th liner hanging around this season.  Berglund should've helped them weather the storm of Girgensons and Jack being out, but he really has been a minor role player and was not showing Housley that he should get those 2C minutes he was expected to help fill when acquired.  But LT they'd've had to figure out where to bury the cost of Berglund as they'd be figuring out how to pay for the 2 Rasmi, Jack, Sam, and Jeff.  And quite likely Casey and Linus would be looking at substantial money as well.  They sure would've been wishing they had gotten that Ivy League degree (getting rid of Berglund) then rather than just have the CC degree (still having a likely washed up but still expensive Berglund still around).

Sorry for the horrible rambling analogy.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

Here is what I don’t understand about the handling of Mitts so far.  He has struggled at center and now is on the 4th line. How does that help his development? Why not move him to wing for the rest of this season to take some pressure off him but gets his skills into a more offense oriented role? He thrived in that role late last year (admittedly small sample size). In the alternative send him down to get his confidence back.  We have Larsson, Erod, Sobotka, and Z who can all play center. Certainly Erod and Larsson have played well enough at center to be playing more prominent roles then Casey right now.  With KO and Pommers reduced to ineffectiveness, why not try Casey on the wing?

Why not try 

Skinner Jack Sam

Sheary ERod Thompson

Wilson Larsson Mitts

Girgensons Sobatka Pommers/KO

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is what I don’t understand about the handling of Mitts so far.  He has struggled at center and now is on the 4th line. How does that help his development? Why not move him to wing for the rest of this season to take some pressure off him but gets his skills into a more offense oriented role? He thrived in that role late last year (admittedly small sample size). In the alternative send him down to get his confidence back.  We have Larsson, Erod, Sobotka, and Z who can all play center. Certainly Erod and Larsson have played well enough at center to be playing more prominent roles then Casey right now.  With KO and Pommers reduced to ineffectiveness, why not try Casey on the wing?

Why not try 

Skinner Jack Sam

Sheary ERod Thompson

Wilson Larsson Mitts

Girgensons Sobatka Pommers/KO

Are you using the Larsson line or the Sobotka line as your shut down line for that scenario?  If that'd be the Larsson line, he's still going to be facing stiffer competition than he's ready for IMHO.  If that's Sobotka's line, what sort of ice time does Casey end up with?

I don't have a huge problem with sliding Mittelstadt to W to help him gain some confidence back.  But do believe that I'd rather see him finally in the 3rd scoring line C role 1st.  He's now been there (kind of, the Aisles game was a mess due to Eichel's injury) for 2 games.  Would like to see him there for a handful more before sliding him to wing.

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree.  I think Jbot thought at 30 he had enough left to give us a reasonable 2c for this season as Mitts learned in the NHL and then 3c for years 2 and 3 depending on how Asplund or Davidsson developed.  

If that was the plan and since he is gone,  doesn’t Jbot have to do something to fix this hole?

 

Bingo. 

4 hours ago, inkman said:

JBot hasn't deviated from the long term plan yet.

If the long term plan (including the duration of this season) involves and is heavily influenced by the presence of a bona-fide number 2C on the roster, and the Sabres find themselves without one, in season, it could be argued that failing to address this issue is deviating from the plan as much or more than doing nothing.

---

There is more to the GM's job than assembling a team in the offseason and letting things ride till the next summer. In season moves should not be taboo - It should all be dependent on cost and return. If an upgrade to the centre position can be made at a reasonable cost, Botterill owes it to the players. To give them the fighting chance he intended them to have at season's beginning. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Thorny

[inkman]

36 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Bingo. 

If the long term plan (including the duration of this season) involves and is heavily influenced by the presence of a bona-fide number 2C on the roster, and the Sabres find themselves without one, in season, it could be argued that failing to address this issue is deviating from the plan as much or more than doing nothing.

---

There is more to the GM's job than assembling a team in the offseason and letting things ride till the next summer. In season moves should not be taboo - It should all be dependent on cost and return. If an upgrade to the centre position can be made at a reasonable cost, Botterill owes it to the players. To give them the fighting chance he intended them to have at season's beginning. 

He should be assembling the best on ice product he can but there has to be a little recognition that he doesn't want to Jack up the long term plans for something very short term. If there is a guy available to help them through the end of the season, he should get him. If the price is too high, don't mortgage the future. 

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, inkman said:

He should be assembling the best on ice product he can but there has to be a little recognition that he doesn't want to Jack up the long term plans for something very short term. If there is a guy available to help them through the end of the season, he should get him. If the price is too high, don't mortgage the future. 

Agreed. Botterill is apparently the whiz. He needs to quantify the value of getting into the playoffs this season, and how much of his long-term savings it would be worth giving up on an investment in the current team.

That investment may hold long term gains if it results in these young players finding themselves rewarded with a playoff spot this season. I truly believe that particular positive reinforcement would go a long, long way towards building up their confidence (and therefore long term outlook).

I want Eichel to captain these guys to the playoffs in his first year with the C. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Thorny

[Cascade Youth]

5 hours ago, LTS said:

Yeah, just rip the dude without knowing the story.  Good call.

It may turn out that he's all sour grapes, but why assume it?  The fact that there's little to no news about him makes me think that there is indeed something going on. 

Even better, you are actually pissed off about it?  Wow.

I guess I don't know what happened, that's true.  There could be a perfectly good reason for him to no-show on the team to a degree that was so egregious that he didn't even contest his contract being voided.  I'm not being sarcastic - I guess there is a world where he had a legitimate non-medical issue that warranted ripping up his entire contract.

What that possibly could be, I'm struggling to come up with.  Any ideas?

[StuckinFL]

30 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said:

I guess I don't know what happened, that's true.  There could be a perfectly good reason for him to no-show on the team to a degree that was so egregious that he didn't even contest his contract being voided.  I'm not being sarcastic - I guess there is a world where he had a legitimate non-medical issue that warranted ripping up his entire contract.

What that possibly could be, I'm struggling to come up with.  Any ideas?

Close family member (wife, sibling, parent) struggling with drug addiction or cancer and wanting to be there for them worth more than money, contracting autoimmune disease like HIV that wouldn't effect your ability right away but also would make you weary of taking routine hits and injuries, drug use triggering the onset of schitzophrenia, talking to ROR too much and losing your love of the game, making a bad joke about Risto on the first day and having him stare you down silenty without breaking eye contact during every practice and locker room change since, after making said joke finding Risto in bed with your wife, Marty Biron having your address and constantly stopping by to chat and your kids start calling him dad, ect.

If any of those are the case I could see walking away from the contract and not wanting the reason why to be public knowledge. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by StuckinFL

[Cascade Youth]

1 hour ago, StuckinFL said:

Close family member (wife, sibling, parent) struggling with drug addiction or cancer and wanting to be there for them worth more than money, contracting autoimmune disease like HIV that wouldn't effect your ability right away but also would make you weary of taking routine hits and injuries, drug use triggering the onset of schitzophrenia, talking to ROR too much and losing your love of the game, making a bad joke about Risto on the first day and having him stare you down silenty without breaking eye contact during every practice and locker room change since, after making said joke finding Risto in bed with your wife, Marty Biron having your address and constantly stopping by to chat and your kids start calling him dad, ect.

If any of those are the case I could see walking away from the contract and not wanting the reason why to be public knowledge. 

All good ideas.  Some of those things have almost happened during the franchise's history, which makes your post particularly well thought-out.

[woods-racer]

I think he was unhappy with the  way the whole thing played out.

The trade with a no trade clause.

*Demoted* to the line he was on.

His stats as a Sabre.

 

He wanted a change of scenery and money wasn't making him happy (thinking he would get similar on the open market anyway) so he took a chance and has hit the free market. He is now finding out his services will be had for a lot less on the few teams that he is willing to play, and that even fewer teams even want him.

I wish him the best, but I believe this is more ego or a form of *make the ego happy* than for any other reason.

 

If he winds up somewhere in the world playing for the love of the game for a lot less and is very happy, I will greatly admire him for that. I doubt this happens.

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by woods-racer

[nfreeman]

Nobody knows anything, but the fact that he hasn’t signed anywhere yet is consistent with the theory that he has some serious personal issue.  

[dudacek]

It might not be any more complicated than he quit a job he didn’t like because he thought he could afford to.

[TrueBlueGED]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

It might not be any more complicated than he quit a job he didn’t like because he thought he could afford to.

So we traded O'Reilly for a guy who actually lost his love for the game? ???

[Scottysabres]

43 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

So we traded O'Reilly for a guy who actually lost his love for the game? ???

This is priceless. You sir, my wife and I would be honored to pick up your tab for a game evening out, a Leafs/Sabres affair. The humor brings laughter to this household. We both chuckled at this one.

[Ho-Chi-Sock]

So here's a hypothetical: If Berglund's agent HAD submitted his NTC in time, would the ROR trade still happen? If so, what pieces would be different? Does Tage come over? Does the lottery exempt on the 1st still happen?

[Ogre]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

It might not be any more complicated than he quit a job he didn’t like because he thought he could afford to.

I’ve done this very thing within the last six months. Life is short. Be happy.

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, Ogre said:

I’ve done this very thing within the last six months. Life is short. Be happy.

Quitter.

 

?

[Ogre]

9 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Quitter.

 

?

?......

I’m no working class hero though. 

I’m just trying to live another day.?

[SwampD]

Just now, Ogre said:

?......

I’m no working class hero though. 

I’m just trying to live another day.?

Noble goal.

[pi2000]

14 hours ago, Ho-Chi-Sock said:

So here's a hypothetical: If Berglund's agent HAD submitted his NTC in time, would the ROR trade still happen? If so, what pieces would be different? Does Tage come over? Does the lottery exempt on the 1st still happen?

Yes

[LTS]

On 1/4/2019 at 12:11 PM, SwampD said:

So, we should be happy that the return we thought we were getting back for ROR, we didn't get?

He still quit, and I'm a little miffed, as well. If he wants to tell us that he had a good reason, he has that option. Until then, he can suck it.

I'm not sure anyone was amped up about the return for ROR.  I think most people fell on the side of gone with the best deal possible or they should have kept him.  The return was the return.  He's not helping his current team and this team is better.  The reasons debated and it boils down to we all know nothing about what was going on.  We can act on the results and the results have been positive for Buffalo and negative for St. Louis.  I don't care anymore about it.  

The Berglund factor goes into it.  The Sabres would be better, in theory, if he were on the roster.  He had a role and he was fulfilling it rather well.  For some reason he decided to give up millions of dollars and drop off the face of the Earth. There's a fairly large difference in saying "He can suck it." as opposed to letting the dude piss you off because you are watching the Sabres.

I guess people want to carry the hate around.  They need to hate someone, something. I don't know.

 

[Cascade Youth]

Or they get emotional during a tough game and think ok, at least it’s safe to vent about it on a fan message board, and weren’t expecting a sanctimonious beat-down in response...

[inkman]

27 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said:

Or they get emotional during a tough game and think ok, at least it’s safe to vent about it on a fan message board, and weren’t expecting a sanctimonious beat-down in response...

Welcome to the internets 

[LTS]

1 hour ago, Cascade Youth said:

Or they get emotional during a tough game and think ok, at least it’s safe to vent about it on a fan message board, and weren’t expecting a sanctimonious beat-down in response...

Sorry you felt that was a sanctimonious beat-down.