Post job interview etiquette

[matter2003]

7 hours ago, Hoss said:

I actually had a recruiter from a much bigger city reach out to me recently and did an interview yesterday over the phone. They offered an in-person which I denied because the pay doesn’t match the jump in cost of living nearly enough... but that was the first time I’ve been approached by a recruiter which was a nice experience.

I hear from recruiters via phone or email almost daily it seems like...if I would have known this is what it would be like once your resume got out there as a software engineer/developer, I would have tried to keep it on the downlow, hahaha...

Just like R Kelly...

"Keep it on the downlow....nobody haaaassss to knowwwww....."

Edited December 8, 2018 by matter2003

[shrader]

8 hours ago, Hoss said:

I actually had a recruiter from a much bigger city reach out to me recently and did an interview yesterday over the phone. They offered an in-person which I denied because the pay doesn’t match the jump in cost of living nearly enough... but that was the first time I’ve been approached by a recruiter which was a nice experience.

Expect the flood gates to open from here. Those people are like vultures. Once your info is out there on a source they can pull from, they all have it. I still get emails based on a resume I posted probably 15 years ago. They never have anything to do with the work I do, but those people will not fill positions unless they try. 

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

Expect the flood gates to open from here. Those people are like vultures. Once your info is out there on a source they can pull from, they all have it. I still get emails based on a resume I posted probably 15 years ago. They never have anything to do with the work I do, but those people will not fill positions unless they try. 

My info has been out there I just hadn’t really updated it until recently and now I’ve got some actual appeal so that’s nice. Doesn’t hurt to talk.

[Ripper]

I believe that you took the proper steps in correct sequence.  It sometimes take a while for the corporate gears to move.  Best of luck and I hope that you are awarded the position.

[pastajoe]

I interviewed for a computer analyst job years ago. Everything went well and I got a call a few days later from their HR who made me an offer. My only counter was that I asked if I could have my own cube. When interviewing with my potential manager she had said I would be sharing a cube. And after thinking about it I knew doing so would be distracting when I’m trying to concentrate.

HR said they would check with the manager and get back with me. A couple of weeks passed and I got no return call or email. So I sent an email to the manager asking what the status of my request was. She said she never heard from HR, and had assumed I wasn’t interested in the job. I decided I didn’t want to work for a company that was that unorganized, and ended up finding another job.

[KD in CT]

No one makes hiring decisions based on a thank you note (or lack thereof).  Anyone who would is not someone you'd want to work for anyway.  Many, many things can happen between a good interview and an offer (or not).   

-They might have found someone they liked better but are keeping you on the string until they close him.
-They might have done a final 2019 budget review and realized they needed to shave a couple jobs out of the budget.
-As they got closer to making an offer, they might have reviewed the role more closely and revised the job requirements.  

I've seen all those things happen many, many times.   And sometimes everything is fine, and the key people just got distracted/delayed, or haven't been able to connect in person to make a final group decision.  That happens a lot, especially at year end with lots going on both at work and at home.  So hang tight and wait for them to make the next call.  Showing eagerness is fine, but going overboard is not.
 

[inkman]

Finally heard back. I already knew the deal but I needed closure.  I really think I could have made a difference in their company and bring them to the next level. Alas, they didn't agree.  

I'm now putting that energy into my current employer. I was running scared for the last 2 years.  I talked to my bosses boss. My former boss.  It was good to connect. He renewed my faith in th company. I think I can continue in an upward trajectory in the company and make an impact. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

Finally heard back. I already knew the deal but I needed closure.  I really think I could have made a difference in their company and bring them to the next level. Alas, they didn't agree.  

I'm now putting that energy into my current employer. I was running scared for the last 2 years.  I talked to my bosses boss. My former boss.  It was good to connect. He renewed my faith in th company. I think I can continue in an upward trajectory in the company and make an impact. 

I’m sorry you didn’t get the job. However it sounds like you found your future for now where you are. That’s a pretty good result as well.  Who knows, they may have done you a favor in the end.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

These things happen for a reason.  We seldom, if ever, know, or find out, that reason.

[Huckleberry]

On 12/24/2018 at 11:48 AM, New Scotland (NS) said:

These things happen for a reason.  We seldom, if ever, know, or find out, that reason.

Mostly its nepotism ?

[WildCard]

On 12/7/2018 at 11:13 AM, Hoss said:

I actually had a recruiter from a much bigger city reach out to me recently and did an interview yesterday over the phone. They offered an in-person which I denied because the pay doesn’t match the jump in cost of living nearly enough... but that was the first time I’ve been approached by a recruiter which was a nice experience.

Had the same recently, feels good

In a similar vein, how do you go about negotiating salary? Especially if the negotiated salary is a decent size above their initial offer; if I'm moving to a bigger city, and moving my entire life, I want 20k more than they offered, to both cover cost of living and ensure it's not a lateral move.

[Tondas]

I negotiated several positions over my career.  First offers are just that, a starting point.  I know finances are personal and should be.  But I think there needs to be context.  If they are offering $150k and you want $170k, that's somewhat reasonable (13% ask over offer) and there are other mechanisms to get you where you need to be (signing bonuses, guaranteed bonuses, options, etc.). until your annual performance increases get you where you want to be on an annual basis.  If they are offering $50k and you want $70k, that may be a bridge too far (40% over offer).

My advice:

1.  Get them to love you.  Vital.  Demonstrate you're easily going to bring in greater than the $20k you're asking for.

2.  Document cost of living from where you live to where you will live (lots of internet sites on cost of living comps).  Show your ask is not out of line.

3.  Be flexible with other benefits and perks.

3.  If it doesn't feel right, walk away,  but be sure to leave on great terms.  I once got an offer for the job I walked away from 6 months later after the guy they selected didn't work out (and got the salary they didn't give me on the first time around.)

Good Luck.

[WildCard]

4 minutes ago, Tondas said:

I negotiated several positions over my career.  First offers are just that, a starting point.  I know finances are personal and should be.  But I think there needs to be context.  If they are offering $150k and you want $170k, that's somewhat reasonable (13% ask over offer) and there are other mechanisms to get you where you need to be (signing bonuses, guaranteed bonuses, options, etc.). until your annual performance increases get you where you want to be on an annual basis.  If they are offering $50k and you want $70k, that may be a bridge too far (40% over offer).

My advice:

1.  Get them to love you.  Vital.  Demonstrate you're easily going to bring in greater than the $20k you're asking for.

2.  Document cost of living from where you live to where you will live (lots of internet sites on cost of living comps).  Show your ask is not out of line.

3.  Be flexible with other benefits and perks.

3.  If it doesn't feel right, walk away,  but be sure to leave on great terms.  I once got an offer for the job I walked away from 6 months later after the guy they selected didn't work out (and got the salary they didn't give me on the first time around.)

Good Luck.

Good advice, thanks. 

What about negotiating an impromptu raise with your current employer? How do I go about initiating the conversation?

[Tondas]

5 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Good advice, thanks. 

What about negotiating an impromptu raise with your current employer? How do I go about initiating the conversation?

Sorry Wild, I never did the impromptu raise with my same employer. (I did for promotions within the same company, but never asked for a raise at my current position).  Not sure how to advise on this.

[Hoss]

7 hours ago, WildCard said:

Good advice, thanks. 

What about negotiating an impromptu raise with your current employer? How do I go about initiating the conversation?

The only time I ever asked for a raise I walked in and asked for a 15% raise because I was dumb when I accepted the first offer so after about a year and a half of hard work I showed them I was worth it. My boss laughed and pushed a piece of paper across the table at that moment that said I was getting a 15% raise. Luckiest moment of my career lol.

I’m currently deep in conversations with what will hopefully be my next employer. I have no issues asking for more money after talking to over a dozen hiring managers in my industry and seeing how it works. What Tondas said about it being a starting point is definitely the case here and I imagine in most if not all industries. I imagine the only places that’ll give you at or near the final offer initially are places that are trying to poach you and not places that you are pursuing yourself.

[Pimlach]

On 12/5/2018 at 10:44 PM, inkman said:

Three weeks ago I interviewed for a position I was very excited about. It was the third interview, two phone interviews previous then face to face. It was a five hour process with eight different people. It started off slowly but by the end I was all but certain I had the job. The person I'd be reporting to literally walked me to HR to discuss next steps (the person we needed wasn't there). So I left believing I was taking the next step in my career. 

I knew they had several candidates but growing impatient, I texted the person I'd be reporting to and asked what the timeline was for this process. She told me a couple weeks. So two weeks later I emailed HR to check on my status. No response. I texted another person I interviewed with and he claimed they had another person to interview. So I reached out to another contact in the industry who knows the involved parties and he's going to poke around to find out what the deal is. 

So did I screw this up (post interview) as none of you should know how that went? 

37 years of experience in the corporate world.  All companies are different and times they are a’changing but here are my thoughts. 

There is pretty much no “knocking it out of the park” in today’s environment.  Most leadership jobs are coded as “underutilized “ so if they have a list of candidates expect them to interview a diverse pool of candidates and check all boxes. 

I prefer to to ask all my “process” related questions at the end of the interview and not post interview.  Follow up process related texts and emails might be a negative to some, they probably think they covered this already.   That said, a nice follow up letter/email thanking them for their time and expressing your desire is a must and should be sent the next business day.  

These long periods with no contact are difficult   My son recently had this situation several times, it never worked out positively but at my company it is becoming more normal to take a long time to hire.  One reason is the use of global staffing systems with hiring professionals outsourced and not on site to help   

HR ain’t what they used to be   Most companies rely on Skelton crews for HR (cost cutting) and push much of the hiring work onto the hiring manager. At our company HR reps usually cannot answer job related or hiring timeline questions, they are limited to internal hiring compliance related tasks   They represent the company not the potential employee   

Time  of year is important and end of year is prone for delays.  

I would avoid too much texting and process questions.  After the initial follow up email I would reach out  every few weeks to express interest, ask if they need more information, reiterate your commitment, etc. 

 

Good luck.  

 

Edit.  Duh.  I see you heard back.  Decided to leave my comments in place.  I like your attitude, be the best you can at your current job and keep eyes and ears open for more opportunities.   

Edited December 27, 2018 by Pimlach

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Is 'Ghosting' a thing for hiring managers?

Asking for a friend.

My wife told me that the trend now is to 'Ghost' a friend and just ignore them and not even tell them that you are doing it.

I had an interview in early December and they expected to move to the next step prior to Christmas.  Nothing.

It is a big (the biggest) bank and things move very slowly.  The hiring manage was going to talk with other departments to see about best fit.  It's a pert-time job that I am over qualified for, but I am easing into retirement / sale of my accounting practice and just want to have a steady part-time paycheque.

So, what do you guys and gals think?  Will I hear anything (either way), or not?

Edited December 27, 2018 by New Scotland (NS)

[inkman]

5 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Is 'Ghosting' a thing for hiring managers?

Asking for a friend.

My wife told me that the trend now is to 'Ghost' a friend and just ignore them and not even tell them that you are doing it.

I had an interview in early December and they expected to move to the next step prior to Christmas.  Nothing.

It is a big (the biggest) bank and things move very slowly.  The hiring manage was going to talk with other departments to see about best fit.  It's a pert-time job that I am over qualified for, but I am easing into retirement / sale of my accounting practice and just want to have a steady part-time paycheque.

So, what do you guys and gals think?  Will I hear anything (either way), or not?

My boss broke the "news" to us that employees were ghosting companies now. I said, you mean people just not showing up any more without telling anyone?  Because that shits been happening since day one of employment. Someone decided to give it a cutsie name "ghosting" and I'm supposed to think this is something new? 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

My boss broke the "news" to us that employees were ghosting companies now. I said, you mean people just not showing up any more without telling anyone?  Because that shits been happening since day one of employment. Someone decided to give it a cutsie name "ghosting" and I'm supposed to think this is something new? 

I hear you about employees and them not even showing up for interviews, but what about employers?  Are they doing it now too, just because?  

Stop the planet!!  I want to get off.

[inkman]

1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I hear you about employees and them not even showing up for interviews, but what about employers?  Are they doing it now too, just because?  

Stop the planet!!  I want to get off.

I imagine some companies with a poor HR department or none at all. 

[LTS]

1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I hear you about employees and them not even showing up for interviews, but what about employers?  Are they doing it now too, just because?  

Stop the planet!!  I want to get off.

 

9 minutes ago, inkman said:

I imagine some companies with a poor HR department or none at all. 

Even companies with a good HR department.  It's happened to me numerous times.  Literally just stopped responding, to anything.  The hiring manager, HR, anyone I spoke with and had contact information, all of them just stopped responding.

This has happened at least 5-6 times for me and most of those were after second interviews no less.

My summation is that I don't want to work for a company that conducts its business like that.

[Claude_Verret]

I recently interviewed for a position.  The first interview was for half a day spending time with various senior people and giving a presentation that represented my work over the years in a niche technology that they were trying to develop. Everything went great and I had a really good vibe. About a week later they brought me back to meet with the CEO.  The conversation there moved towards the salary and benefits that I was looking for.  When I told him my salary requirements he asked if it was negotiable and I responded that of course it is and that I'd be looking at the entire package if they decided to offer me the position. A few days later I received an offer letter:

30% less salary than I told him in the interview.

2 weeks vacation. lol

401k and other benefits. meh.

To say that I was insulted would be an understatement.  So I ghosted them.  It wasn't worth my time to draft a letter in response to it.  After about a week I hear back from the CEO wanting to know if I had a counter offer.  This time I did respond with an offer to come on board as a consultant at my highly inflated hourly rate....negotiable of course.  I haven't heard back. lol

 

Beyond all of that, something really turned me off during my interview with the CEO.  As we sat down in his office he asked me to tell him about myself.  As I began speaking his phone beeps. Not only does he pick it up,  but he begins reading an email for a good minute as I'm talking.  I've repeatedly had to remind my reports over the years about not having their phones out in meetings and at the lab bench, and here is a CEO who presumably is interested in hiring me, on his phone reading an email right off the bat in the interview.  Bush league. 

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

30 minutes ago, LTS said:

 

Even companies with a good HR department.  It's happened to me numerous times.  Literally just stopped responding, to anything.  The hiring manager, HR, anyone I spoke with and had contact information, all of them just stopped responding.

This has happened at least 5-6 times for me and most of those were after second interviews no less.

My summation is that I don't want to work for a company that conducts its business like that.

Terrible.  I hate what has become of this world.

[inkman]

4 hours ago, Claude_Verret said:

I recently interviewed for a position.  The first interview was for half a day spending time with various senior people and giving a presentation that represented my work over the years in a niche technology that they were trying to develop. Everything went great and I had a really good vibe. About a week later they brought me back to meet with the CEO.  The conversation there moved towards the salary and benefits that I was looking for.  When I told him my salary requirements he asked if it was negotiable and I responded that of course it is and that I'd be looking at the entire package if they decided to offer me the position. A few days later I received an offer letter:

30% less salary than I told him in the interview.

2 weeks vacation. lol

401k and other benefits. meh.

To say that I was insulted would be an understatement.  So I ghosted them.  It wasn't worth my time to draft a letter in response to it.  After about a week I hear back from the CEO wanting to know if I had a counter offer.  This time I did respond with an offer to come on board as a consultant at my highly inflated hourly rate....negotiable of course.  I haven't heard back. lol

 

Beyond all of that, something really turned me off during my interview with the CEO.  As we sat down in his office he asked me to tell him about myself.  As I began speaking his phone beeps. Not only does he pick it up,  but he begins reading an email for a good minute as I'm talking.  I've repeatedly had to remind my reports over the years about not having their phones out in meetings and at the lab bench, and here is a CEO who presumably is interested in hiring me, on his phone reading an email right off the bat in the interview.  Bush league. 

 

I really don't understand how a company can go with that offer to you?  Was the salary request above market for the position?

[Hoss]

13 hours ago, inkman said:

My boss broke the "news" to us that employees were ghosting companies now. I said, you mean people just not showing up any more without telling anyone?  Because that shits been happening since day one of employment. Someone decided to give it a cutsie name "ghosting" and I'm supposed to think this is something new? 

Everyone wants to blame millennials. It’s the cutest thing Boomers do.