Jack’s shooting % - Is it a problem?

[WildCard]

FWIW Jack had an interview post practice the other day where he says he and some secondary players need to stat putting the puck in the net. So don't be surprised if Jack starts shooting like crazy more

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, WildCard said:

FWIW Jack had an interview post practice the other day where he says he and some secondary players need to stat putting the puck in the net. So don't be surprised if Jack starts shooting like crazy more

He's 8th in shots on goal. He needs to shoot crazy better. 

[Randall Flagg]

I'm not convinced he's taking any different shots from any other year. I've seen him hit a lot of pipes, and give a lot of his prime chances to Skinner who puts them in instead. I want him hitting 30 goals, much less 20, but if the two players combined are at 60, who cares how it's split up? 

[Stoner]

51 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Jack was like 8th in PPG about two games ago. 

It's way too early to put serious stock in those numbers. He fluctuated about 40 spots in about 72 hours.

I was responding to Hoss' hypothetical of Jack finishing the season at his current pace.

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Is he 39th in ppg? I think he is technically tied for 34th but I guess that depends on rounding. 

For the purposes of these discussions I just go with where nhl.com puts a player. Jack is tied with several players but placed below players who have played fewer games.

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

The difference between Jack and say 13th on the list... 0.2ppg. So he has some work to do and I think scoring goals would go a long way towards helping him out. PA I agree with, Jack isn't good enough right now, we need more. 

Jack's been fine. More than fine. And the team is doing well. I just think it's important for fans who tend to overrate their own players to know that Jack is not producing at an elite level. It's a scorer's league right now.

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

I was responding to Hoss' hypothetical of Jack finishing the season at his current pace.

To be fair, if he finishes at his current pace he won’t be 39th in scoring. Sustaining a point per game pace isn’t easy.

I expect he’ll have an uptick in goals very soon. I’m not sure his assist numbers will go much lower but getting to 70 assists is rare.

[Stoner]

3 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'm not convinced he's taking any different shots from any other year. I've seen him hit a lot of pipes, and give a lot of his prime chances to Skinner who puts them in instead. I want him hitting 30 goals, much less 20, but if the two players combined are at 60, who cares how it's split up? 

Skinner's agent?

[DarthEbriate]

Even a Stormtrooper has an off day now and again on the target range. He'll be alright.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

Even a Stormtrooper has an off day now and again on the target range.

 

Incidentally, I've been on that practice range.

[calti]

9 hours ago, darksabre said:

I'm fine with Jack's numbers being Joe Thornton-esque 

hmm im glad I read thru the thread cuz I was gonna say he was being thorntonlike. 

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

 

Incidentally, I've been on that practice range.

he looks like one of the cowsills

[Doohicksie]

What's a cowsill?

 

... after googling... wow, you're right.

[DarthEbriate]

See! See! He hit the target. Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise.

It would be nice if all our officers set for stun. Excellent accuracy, everyone pops back up shortly thereafter and makes snappy retorts to their fathers....

[Doohicksie]

30 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

See! See! He hit the target. Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise.

It would be nice if all our officers set for stun. Excellent accuracy, everyone pops back up shortly thereafter and makes snappy retorts to their fathers....

As soon as I read what you wrote, I knew I had to find that video.  When I toured the police training facility, they said that was the biggest indoor target range in the Western Hemisphere.  The FBI has used it and they're jealous.

[Hoss]

3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

As soon as I read what you wrote, I knew I had to find that video.  When I toured the police training facility, they said that was the biggest indoor target range in the Western Hemisphere.  The FBI has used it and they're jealous.

And it’s SUPER unnecessary.

[Huckleberry]

Ah no worries, he is saving 20 goals for the playoffs.

[LGR4GM]

Playoffs? Please sir, what are those? 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by LGR4GM

[Doohicksie]

8 hours ago, Hoss said:

And it’s SUPER unnecessary.

It was part of an existing structure.  The training facility was built out of existing warehouse space.

[DarthEbriate]

25 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

It was part of an existing structure.  The training facility was built out of existing warehouse space.

Getting further off topic, I'd love for gun ranges be part of controlled facility/structures.  There was an incident a few years ago (I think in CA?) where an outdoor shooting range used a berm as a backstop to their targets. Except! The berm was an underground gas pipeline. Over the years they shot into it...and eroded it. And I think they were using a tractor/backhoe of some sort to cleanup and they tore into the pipeline. Designed shooting ranges are good.

[LTS]

On 11/15/2018 at 9:41 AM, LGR4GM said:

No it is not. That is a terrible shooting percentage. If you want to take the next step as a team we need Eichel's to bury the opportunities he is getting. Jack should be at 7 goals not 4. Over the course of a season that is a problem. 

As you said with regards to other players who are overachieving.   Their totals will come down.  Jack's totals will go up.  I'd worry about it at the end of the season or if the Sabres fall off their current pace.  Right now... the team is winning.

22 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

A $10 million offensive player can't be 39th in scoring (points per game). He just can't be.

Jonathon Toews.

[mjd1001]

On 11/15/2018 at 1:54 PM, Randall Flagg said:

Jack was like 8th in PPG about two games ago. 

It's way too early to put serious stock in those numbers. He fluctuated about 40 spots in about 72 hours.

I agree its too early to be looking at any numbers that fluctuate as the season goes on.  If his lower shooting percentage was a continuation of a trend that included all of last year..then maybe.  I'd start to be concerned about the number if it stays this low another 20+ games into the season, but even then I'd evaluate it in terms of his overall game.

[Stoner]

4 hours ago, LTS said:

As you said with regards to other players who are overachieving.   Their totals will come down.  Jack's totals will go up.  I'd worry about it at the end of the season or if the Sabres fall off their current pace.  Right now... the team is winning.

Jonathon Toews.

Not a great comparison. Toews won the Conn Smythe Trophy on his rookie contract while being in the running for the Selke. He went on to win the Selke and has been a perennial strong candidate for it. The Hawks have (had) their Eichel.

[Thorner]

On 11/15/2018 at 12:41 PM, WildCard said:

 

Agreed

The expectations are certainly changing. The consensus before seemed to be ~ point a game, 80 points as the bar for success for Jack. He's pacing for 86 points currently, and now that's not enough.

So the bar is what now, 90 points a season? 100?

Team is 3 games above Deluca .500, 7th in the NHL, with 22 year old Jack wearing the C and scoring at an 86 point pace, previous career high being 64. 

He makes 10 mil. Big deal. Tavares makes 11 mil and has 3 points more than Jack and by all accounts he's having a tremendous season.

Tough, tough crowd. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Thorny

[Thorner]

On 11/15/2018 at 1:47 PM, PASabreFan said:

I was responding to Hoss' hypothetical of Jack finishing the season at his current pace.

For the purposes of these discussions I just go with where nhl.com puts a player. Jack is tied with several players but placed below players who have played fewer games.

It's a points per game ranking. Number of games played is already factored in. If anything having more games played is the mark of a better player in this scenario.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Thorny

[LTS]

15 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Not a great comparison. Toews won the Conn Smythe Trophy on his rookie contract while being in the running for the Selke. He went on to win the Selke and has been a perennial strong candidate for it. The Hawks have (had) their Eichel.

Pretty sure he won't be in the running for it this year.  It's amazing what the team around you can do for your stats.

But, whatever.  Jack is fine. He's worth every penny being spent on him (when using NHL economic value rules).

He makes the Sabres go right now and they are going very well.

[Stoner]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

It's a points per game ranking. Number of games played is already factored in. If anything having more games played is the mark of a better player in this scenario.

Yeah, that's right. Thanks. I don't know how nhl.com breaks the tie. But it appears there's a glitch there. Radulov, who has played nine games, is above Wheeler, who has played 18 games. Same points per game. Eichel and two others have played 19 games and have the same PPG, but Eichel is 40th, the others 41 and 42. Doesn't matter really.