What was broken, what changed?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

22 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Ummmm....no. Beaulieu is a nice looking young man ? 

 

?

Perspective.

16 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

He's a big scary bear. 

And perspective.

Edited November 11, 2018 by New Scotland (NS)
WOW!! ... Flagg

[klos1963]

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

The key difference is talent, not culture, IMO. Better goaltending, better defense with Dahlin, improved Bogo and no major injuries yet, and the addition of Skinner and Sheary. Okposo is back at top level, ERod has emerged and Jack and Samson are a year older. 

Talent certainly makes a difference, doesn't it?

[dudacek]

@Randall Flagg 

Certainly losing begets frustration begets conflict begets losing just as winning begets joy, begets trust begets more winning.

And I agree with the majority of your post. I just wonder about your dismissal of off-ice improvements as “locker room fairy dust.”

So during the offseason, the Sabres made a point to create trust. Players called and met with each other. Coach Phil Housley visited players and alumni. General manager Jason Botterill brought in new guys and talked with the holdovers.

“There’s a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that no one will ever see, understand or take credit for,” alternate captain Zach Bogosian said. “We’ve done it together as a group, everyone involved from Botts to the coaching staff to the training staff to the players. Everyone in here wants to make this a fun place to play.

There is considerable evidence that the Sabres put a major emphasis on team-building in a relationship sense over the summer.Why the reluctance to acknowledge the role that improved group dynamics may be having in their improvement?

[klos1963]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

It's premature to call Dahlin our best defenseman folks.  His gaffs, committed by someone wearing 82 or 6 or 8, would have us screaming to get rid of the bum.

He's hardly our best defenseman, but he's not out of place for an 18 year old. Although a big splash by him would have been fun, it's encouraging to see him developing a complete game. Again, he's only 18.

[Randall Flagg]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

@Randall Flagg 

Certainly losing begets frustration begets conflict begets losing just as winning begets joy, begets trust begets more winning.

 And I agree with the majority of your post. I just wonder about your dismissal of off-ice improvements as “locker room fairy dust.”

 So during the offseason, the Sabres made a point to create trust. Players called and met with each other. Coach Phil Housley visited players and alumni. General manager Jason Botterill brought in new guys and talked with the holdovers.

“There’s a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that no one will ever see, understand or take credit for,” alternate captain Zach Bogosian said. “We’ve done it together as a group, everyone involved from Botts to the coaching staff to the training staff to the players. Everyone in here wants to make this a fun place to play.

There is considerable evidence that the Sabres put a major emphasis on team-building in a relationship sense over the summer.Why the reluctance to acknowledge the role that improved group dynamics may be having in their improvement?

The "fairy dust" is the idea that the team can comeback now that they believe in themselves. Like I said, they're actually BEHIND last year in terms of "tying the game down by two with the goalie pulled." 

I agree that the team is bonding and believing in themselves like never before, and that it helps them on the ice. 

That wouldn't have happened with this group or any group had the hockey ability of the team not been improved. We'd have the same bleak feeling right now if these guys realized, like last October, like any team ever (including the multiple-cup-winning core of the almost dynasty LA Kings, completely intact), that they were by default not going to be able to compete this season. 

So I am acknowledging it. But I disagree with the order as posed. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[Randall Flagg]

They team-built and "had a different feel" all before last season too. Go read the articles and interviews before we knew we were bad. It was talked about almost as much as it was this year because of the whole regime change. It was the same stuff, but it didn't help, becuase we were built like the worst team in the league and the players found that out (and then one almost died). 

And I've also posted and talked at length about how important it was that captain Jack was making the rounds during the offseason. 

So the idea (aided by my poor choice of words at time, for sure) that I inherently don't believe in locker room stuff is probably deserved, but is also incorrect. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[dudacek]

I would suggest that a huge portion of the “improved goaltending” is about mental perception.

2.45 GAA .915 SP and 2.90 GAA .905 aren’t hugely different. What is more different is the team perception last year that the goalie could implode at any moment, whereas this year’s guy is as steady and competitive as they come.

Hutton whiffed on Virtanen’s weak backhand, then let in Gudbranson’s butterfly from the point in absolute Lehner-esque fashion yesterday. But the team didn’t deflate, it rallied.

Guys are playing better because they trust their goalie and want to win for him.

Edited November 11, 2018 by dudacek

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, dudacek said:

I would suggest that a huge portion of the “improved goaltending” is about mental perception.

2.45 GAA .915 SP and 2.90 GAA .905 aren’t hugely different. What is more different is the team perception last year that the goalie could implode at any moment, whereas this year’s guy is as steady and competitive as they come.

Hutton whiffed on Virtanen’s weak backhand, then let in Gudbranson’s butterfly from the point in absolute Lehner-esque fashion yesterday. But the team didn’t deflate, it rallied.

Guys are playing better because they trust their goalie.

Sure it is, especially considering the uptick in scoring even from last year. Would you rather have Ryan Miller as your starter or Michael Leighton from the same era?

Agreed otherwise though. 

[LTS]

There are a ton of reasons without a doubt.

Randall pointed out a lot of good stuff up above.  The "fairy dust" though is not something I would classify as them "believing in themselves" it's "believing in their team".

I don't know that last year they believed in each other.  I think that's a huge difference this year.

[North Buffalo]

1 hour ago, ... said:

They're having fun:

 

Jack got goosed...

A rasmi sandwich

[Doohicksie]

28 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

They team-built and "had a different feel" all before last season too.

I work in the corporate world.  Our company has rolled out a "culture of accountability" initiative.  It actually has made a difference in some respects, but it's taken two or three years of annual training for the rank and file to get into the habit of it, let alone acting on it.  And still everyone hasn't bought in.

Acknowledging that a hockey team is a smaller enterprise, there's still a "learning curve" for that kind of stuff.  It doesn't happen instantly.  The more cynical folks at my company see it as "this year's initiative" and it's only by doing it over and over that it is taking hold.  Same could be said for the Sabres.  With the revolving door at head coach, lots of players probably didn't buy into Housley and his method/system/culture last year; it was a wait and see period.  Two years in and the message consistently delivered, the team is starting to believe.

(In the movies, this "starting to believe" thing usually plays out in a montage of practices that lasts about two minutes.  The real world doesn't move that fast.)

Edited November 11, 2018 by Doohickie

[...]

27 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I work in the corporate world.  Our company has rolled out a "culture of accountability" initiative.  It actually has made a difference in some respects, but it's taken two or three years of annual training for the rank and file to get into the habit of it, let alone acting on it.  And still everyone hasn't bought in.

Acknowledging that a hockey team is a smaller enterprise, there's still a "learning curve" for that kind of stuff.  It doesn't happen instantly.  The more cynical folks at my company see it as "this year's initiative" and it's only by doing it over and over that it is taking hold.  Same could be said for the Sabres.  With the revolving door at head coach, lots of players probably didn't buy into Housley and his method/system/culture last year; it was a wait and see period.  Two years in and the message consistently delivered, the team is starting to believe.

(In the movies, this "starting to believe" thing usually plays out in a montage of practices that lasts about two minutes.  The real world doesn't move that fast.)

People with their eyes closed to this "phenomenon" don't want to believe the impact.  The parallels to life and reality at large are many and significant.

Edited November 11, 2018 by ...

[Robviously]

47 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

They team-built and "had a different feel" all before last season too. Go read the articles and interviews before we knew we were bad. It was talked about almost as much as it was this year because of the whole regime change.

The roster turned over a lot last offseason too but mostly with role players.  At the end of the day, the key players were all the same.  And you'd take the interviews with a serious grain of salt since that's exactly what you'd expect any team looking for a turnaround to say.  (Would anyone ever say "this year's team feels the same!" coming off a terrible season?)

[Robviously]

28 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I work in the corporate world.  Our company has rolled out a "culture of accountability" initiative.  It actually has made a difference in some respects, but it's taken two or three years of annual training for the rank and file to get into the habit of it, let alone acting on it.  And still everyone hasn't bought in.

Acknowledging that a hockey team is a smaller enterprise, there's still a "learning curve" for that kind of stuff.  It doesn't happen instantly.  The more cynical folks at my company see it as "this year's initiative" and it's only by doing it over and over that it is taking hold.  Same could be said for the Sabres.  With the revolving door at head coach, lots of players probably didn't buy into Housley and his method/system/culture last year; it was a wait and see period.  Two years in and the message consistently delivered, the team is starting to believe.

(In the movies, this "starting to believe" thing usually plays out in a montage of practices that lasts about two minutes.  The real world doesn't move that fast.)

My experience in the corporate world is why I take this seriously too.  I'm sure this sounds corny but going to work feels completely different when you're surrounded by people that don't care versus people that are actually invested and want to do a good job.  I've had both and it's far more than just who's competent and who isn't.

Harvard Business Review writes articles about this all the time.  If you need a good travel example with Thanksgiving coming up, read up on how Southwest Airlines spent decades building their culture and continues to reinforce it (and why other airlines have struggled to do something similar).

You can apply this to families too.  Or any community.  Culture matters.

[GASabresIUFAN]

The biggest change on this team was forcing this team to unit behind it’s best player.  

LGR and I were discussing this recently and although he dislikes the trade (I don’t) we reached a census that it was necessary to get his sulky me first personality out of the clubhouse.

Look at the vets Jbot sent packing and it’s net affect on the team. Look at the personalities he replaced the TM guys with.  

ROR (sulky), Lehner (mental issues) and Kane (party boy) out; Skinner (upbeat, plays with an edge, and professional), Hutton (fun and friendly) and Sheary (winner, hard working). The moves also gave the calm professional Pominville a bigger voice in the lockerroom. Add the excitement of Dahlin and Casey, I think Jbot let the stale air out of the clubhouse.

The article also mentioned the great lengths PH and Jbot went to to unite the team in the off-season.  

[matter2003]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Vogl with a piece on the new culture in Buffalo.

https://theathletic.com/646462/2018/11/10/sabres-built-bonds-with-each-other-and-the-past-and-its-showing-in-the-results/

Snippet: for the non-subscribers:

“It’s only been 17 games. There are still 65 remaining, spread out over five months. Skepticism can easily be forgiven.

Just know that there’s none in the dressing room. The Sabres insist they’ve changed. There’s a bond now, a trust. They believe they can win, and they believe in each other.

“It is different,” Bogosian said. “We try not to dwell too much on the past, but you learn from it. We have.”

 

It’s hard to say exactly what was said and done; the article talks about connecting to franchise history playing a role.

But it is very clear that Housley and Botterill identified issues outside of talent that needed to be addressed and they seem to have done a very good job of addressing them.

 

I think its clear O'Reilly was viewed as a problem. Maybe he made it too easy for the young guys to accept losing as they looked at him for leadership and got none.

[Randall Flagg]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I work in the corporate world.  Our company has rolled out a "culture of accountability" initiative.  It actually has made a difference in some respects, but it's taken two or three years of annual training for the rank and file to get into the habit of it, let alone acting on it.  And still everyone hasn't bought in.

Acknowledging that a hockey team is a smaller enterprise, there's still a "learning curve" for that kind of stuff.  It doesn't happen instantly.  The more cynical folks at my company see it as "this year's initiative" and it's only by doing it over and over that it is taking hold.  Same could be said for the Sabres.  With the revolving door at head coach, lots of players probably didn't buy into Housley and his method/system/culture last year; it was a wait and see period.  Two years in and the message consistently delivered, the team is starting to believe.

(In the movies, this "starting to believe" thing usually plays out in a montage of practices that lasts about two minutes.  The real world doesn't move that fast.)

It could also be said that, despite believing in themselves and building camaraderie last year, it was overshadowed by playing the league's worst at many positions. 

And now there's some good hockey ability for that stuff to actually help. 

Again, I think I've found the best way to say what I think - it's important to be a team and when you've got team-building stuff going for you it'll help, but it doesn't get fixed before the hockey team does, pretty much by definition. I could run through forty billion examples again, but I don't think anyone wants to read that. 

It's going to help them down the stretch that they're forming these bonds and whatever. But the reason they're better at hockey can 100% be traced to the hockey itself. And the locker room stuff will help keep it going and make it easier.  

1 hour ago, Robviously said:

The roster turned over a lot last offseason too but mostly with role players.  At the end of the day, the key players were all the same.  And you'd take the interviews with a serious grain of salt since that's exactly what you'd expect any team looking for a turnaround to say.  (Would anyone ever say "this year's team feels the same!" coming off a terrible season?)

I've never taken interviews seriously whatsoever and I think 99.99999% of the time nobody else should either. These guys are taught to be robots. The robots on good teams say all the good robot things, and the robots on bad teams say all the bad and annoying robot things. 

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

I think its clear O'Reilly was viewed as a problem. Maybe he made it too easy for the young guys to accept losing as they looked at him for leadership and got none.

I'm still not sure I know who believed ROR was a problem. 

Every move Botterill makes has a distinct Jason feel to it. Sheary. Skinner. Scandella. There's one single move that sticks out as quite different from the rest, with a deadline that Jason didn't impose himself. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Terry is the one who asked nicely for the Tim Hortons guy with the bad quote in the locker room cleanout to be moved.

[Ho-Chi-Sock]

Nice article about Hutton from the [BN]

 

Quote

Hutton stopped 36 of the 39 shots he faced against Vancovuer, including all 15 in the first period, to salvage what could have been a disastrous afternoon. It was the type of performance Hutton's teammates have come to expect and powerfully illustrated why the Sabres signed him to a three-year contract in July.

"I just want to win games," Hutton said after the win. "I think people see that competitive side of me. Coming in here, we obviously had a younger team, and it was a transition. You hear all the talk coming in and everything that needed to change.

"I think for me I just want to be a calming factor in there, that can come out every night and compete hard. I try to wear it on my sleeve and battle for the guys."

Remember, Hutton ranked first in save percentage (.931) and goals against average (2.09) among goalies with at least 30 games played last season. His 26 starts for the St. Louis Blues were his most since 2013-14 with the Nashville Predators. Despite Linus Ullmark making the jump to Buffalo this season, General Manager Jason Botterill signed Hutton at the onset of free agency.

The thought was Hutton could take some pressure off Ullmark, while also providing the Sabres with a proven veteran. Robin Lehner, their full-time starter the previous two seasons, was rarely able to steal a win when those in front of him were suffering through growing pains.

Hutton did that twice in three days. Ullmark was given the start Thursday in Montreal and proceeded to allow five goals on 32 shots, leading Housley to turn to Hutton in the third. Hutton stopped all five shots he faced in regulation, including Artturi Lehkonen's breakaway only 15 seconds into the third period, and the Sabres won, 6-5, in overtime.

Hutton was outstanding again Saturday when injuries to Sam Reinhart and Jack Eichel left Housley with only 10 forwards for most of the first period. The Sabres' defensemen were also making familiar mistakes. But Hutton was able to hold on to a one-goal lead until both returned, including an impeccable stop on Tyler Motte's one-timer from the slot midway through the first period.

Hutton's lone mistake was taking a bad angle on Jake Virtanen's backhanded, go-ahead goal with 34 seconds left in the second period. And there was the sprawling robbery of Horvat, arguably the Sabres' save of the season thus far.

"He's mentally tough," Housley said of Hutton. "He battles and I think he's got a great foundation, which starts in practice, where he works very hard. That relays into the game. He'd probably want that one back, but he's a fighter. He doesn't carry that goal into the rest of the game. He gets composed again and made some huge saves in overtime."

Hutton also stopped Elias Pettersson's wrist shot and Nikolay Goldobin's backhander in the shootout to secure the win. Entering Sunday's games, Hutton ranked 11th and 12th in the league in save percentage and goals against average, respectively, among goalies with at least 10 starts.

He has six wins in 12 starts while often being on the wrong side of puck luck. The Sabres have scored one goal or less in six of Hutton's starts. On the other hand, they haven't scored fewer than three in any of Ullmark's five starts.

Even in games such as Saturday's, Hutton embodied the spirit Housley is cultivating in a locker room that failed to recover from lapses in play not so long ago....

 

[Randall Flagg]

Another thing that has changed: Phil doing little things like recognizing the need to minimize Skinner's time in the defensive zone, the benefits of letting Kyle and Scandella work their way back to a previous form away from the limelight of top lines and pairings, Phil quickly fixing lineup mistakes. He's grown too. 

[dudacek]

O’Reilly remains the oddity - he’s clearly better than the players they acquired for him; it’s pretty tough to argue he’s not better than anyone than Eichel. And people like to forget Kane when they talk about how the talent was upgraded.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I think if you look at Skinner in and Kane out, that is basically a wash, at least on the score sheet and talent wise.

[GASabresIUFAN]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

O’Reilly remains the oddity - he’s clearly better than the players they acquired for him; it’s pretty tough to argue he’s not better than anyone than Eichel. And people like to forget Kane when they talk about how the talent was upgraded.

I disagree that ROR deal is an oddity.  The deal was very similar to the Kane deal.  He got rid of someone who he didn't think was part of the solution long-term and got the best assets he could.  Frankly the deal isn't that much less then we paid to acquire him.

Edited November 11, 2018 by GASabresIUFAN

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I disagree that ROR deal is an oddity.  The deal was very similar to the Kane deal.  He got rid of someone who he didn't think was part of the solution long-term and got the best assets he could.  Frankly the deal is that much less then we paid to acquire him.

The Kane deal was typical though. Last place team, upcoming UFA, trade deadline. That happens every year, and the value was there. 

The ROR deal was a sketchy value deal with a self-imposed deadline of a current-good-player still in his 20s with 5 years left of team control. It was quite distinct. And Botterill, in his tenure, both in words and actions, expressed far more belief in ROR as a member of the team going forward than Kane. 

I think Terry wanted to move on from ROR more than Jason did. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[bg17]

34 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'm still not sure I know who believed ROR was a problem. 

Every move Botterill makes has a distinct Jason feel to it. Sheary. Skinner. Scandella. There's one single move that sticks out as quite different from the rest, with a deadline that Jason didn't impose himself. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Terry is the one who asked nicely for the Tim Hortons guy with the bad quote in the locker room cleanout to be moved.

Are you suggesting that Botterill and Housley didn’t have an issue with O’Reilly and would have preferred to keep him but Pegula gave them marching orders?