What value in a contract for Skinner?

[kas23]

18 hours ago, StuckinFL said:

But that's exactly the point. What other GMs will pay him sets the table. If no one else in the league is going to drive his contract up to 9m then why would we pay him that? Just cause it's a nice thing to do? You figure out what the market outside of Buffalo will be and then negotiate accordingly. And I don't see any GM in the entire league looking at Skinner, even if he scores 50g this season, offering him 9+ for 8. If he was being centered by a league average center I could see that happening. But that's not what's happening and alot, not all but alot, of his current success is due to being on Eichel's wing. GMs employ pro scouts for a reason and I can't see anyone watching Skinner this year thinking he's going to be a 40g player without a superstar center for another 8 years. If someone out there is that naive, let them have him and try to trade him to them this year so you can get something back. 

Never underestimate the stupidity of another team’s GM. If we pay him $8M then we are paying for a 45g scorer to be on Eichel’s wing for the next 5-6 years. A reasonable contract. If another team pays him $8M, then they are likely overpaying. However, while Eichel is a great player, he’s not unique. There are other centers out there that can feed Skinner just as well. What if we are competing with that team to sign him?

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

11 hours ago, StuckinFL said:

Yes, I don't think he will ever scratch the possibility of a 50g season without a superstar like Eichel feeding him. A 50g season and a 37g season are 2 totally different beasts. One is impressive, the other is top of the league. And a player that can score 50g with an average center I would feel paying 9 for 8 would be a n absolute bargain. A player that's hit 28, 37, and 24 (ES: 24, 30, and 20 respectively) in his past 3 seasons is not a 50g talent by himself. So don't pay him like he is one. Pay him like a 30-35 goal talent. And that is between 7 and 8 depending on term, how much the player wants to go there, and how good of a negotiator the GM is. 

You can't say that Eichel is contributing to his success and then say that Eichel's assistance shouldn't be factored in to projecting what to pay him. That just makes no sense to me. I mean, even if he hits 50g this year, that's an average of 34 goals over 4 seasons. Offer the man that kind of deal. 

There's really no sense in continuing this argument since you seem to want to keep changing the game and upping the importance of Jack. Your contention was that Skinner isn't a 30g scorer with an average C and Jack is the reason he's doing it. Now you up the game and say he can't score 50 with an average C(which I agree).

I am not asking for them to pay Skinner 9x8.  But you don't seem to want to accept the fact that Skinner has been a very good goal scorer his whole career with LESS than average C and not even consistant linemates..

Why did we pay Eichel 10M/yr and not the level he played at for his past which was about 50-65pts? Should we have paid him alot less based on his previous years as you seem to point out for Skinner? Skinner makes Jack better too and seems to make Jack "happy". Whats it worth to you to keep Jack happy and not have to try and find another guy who fits Jack this well. Who was the last the last player to score 30g on Eichels line? Reinhart has 8g...does he not have any if he were not on Jacks line? Reinhart has 28 assists (who's scoring the goals?). Are you also gonna say that Reinhart makes Skinner better? Jack and Sam have played together before while Skinner hasn't. Just maybe, Skinner has made them BOTH better. 

I trust JBOTS to do the right thing, which ever that may be. If he decides not to pay Skinner, then I'm sure he has an alternative plan.

[StuckinFL]

16 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

There's really no sense in continuing this argument since you seem to want to keep changing the game and upping the importance of Jack. Your contention was that Skinner isn't a 30g scorer with an average C and Jack is the reason he's doing it. Now you up the game and say he can't score 50 with an average C(which I agree).

I am not asking for them to pay Skinner 9x8.  But you don't seem to want to accept the fact that Skinner has been a very good goal scorer his whole career with LESS than average C and not even consistant linemates..

Why did we pay Eichel 10M/yr and not the level he played at for his past which was about 50-65pts? Should we have paid him alot less based on his previous years as you seem to point out for Skinner? Skinner makes Jack better too and seems to make Jack "happy". Whats it worth to you to keep Jack happy and not have to try and find another guy who fits Jack this well. Who was the last the last player to score 30g on Eichels line? Reinhart has 8g...does he not have any if he were not on Jacks line? Reinhart has 28 assists (who's scoring the goals?). Are you also gonna say that Reinhart makes Skinner better? Jack and Sam have played together before while Skinner hasn't. Just maybe, Skinner has made them BOTH better. 

I trust JBOTS to do the right thing, which ever that may be. If he decides not to pay Skinner, then I'm sure he has an alternative plan.

Not at all, I continually state over and over that he is a 30g scorer and should be paid like one, not a 40+g player on his own. As far as Jack's contract, he's younger and hasn't scratched the surface of his prime years yet. And I think his contract is going to look like highway robbery in a few years. 

I think you and I are in agreement on everything other than what other GMs will offer him and that he'd be willing to go to. So why are we disagreeing?

I think he can get about 9 per but not with max term, so thats the wiggle room. I think Buffalo is the greenest pasture for him as far as term, $, linemates, and projected competitivness. I think the market won't be insane and he can be had for less than 8 for max term.

[tom webster]

I’m sure someone mentioned this but I’m too lazy to go back and read. Skinner only waived his no trade clause for Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Toronto. 

He clearly has a preference to stay near this area, Toronto is highly unlikely to sign another high end forward unless they trade one and Buffalo is the only place that can offer eight years.

This gets done and a lot easier then a lot of people think.

[darksabre]

Just now, tom webster said:

I’m sure someone mentioned this but I’m too lazy to go back and read. Skinner only waived his no trade clause for Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Toronto. 

He clearly has a preference to stay near this area, Toronto is highly unlikely to sign another high end forward unless they trade one and Buffalo is the only place that can offer eight years.

This gets done and a lot easier then a lot of people think.

Agreed.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

3 minutes ago, StuckinFL said:

Not at all, I continually state over and over that he is a 30g scorer and should be paid like one, not a 40+g player on his own. As far as Jack's contract, he's younger and hasn't scratched the surface of his prime years yet. And I think his contract is going to look like highway robbery in a few years. 

I think you and I are in agreement on everything other than what other GMs will offer him and that he'd be willing to go to. So why are we disagreeing?

I think he can get about 9 per but not with max term, so thats the wiggle room. I think Buffalo is the greenest pasture for him as far as term, $, linemates, and projected competitivness. I think the market won't be insane and he can be had for less than 8 for max term.

It's the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Those 3 make each other better and one of the best lines in the league right now. Let's fix the other lines:)

 

[StuckinFL]

1 hour ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

It's the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Those 3 make each other better and one of the best lines in the league right now. Let's fix the other lines:)

 

Amen, I wanna see him as a Sabres for the rest of his career. But I don't think we need to overpay him to do it at the expense of our future. 

 

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

I’m sure someone mentioned this but I’m too lazy to go back and read. Skinner only waived his no trade clause for Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Toronto. 

He clearly has a preference to stay near this area, Toronto is highly unlikely to sign another high end forward unless they trade one and Buffalo is the only place that can offer eight years.

This gets done and a lot easier then a lot of people think.

Totally agreed. That's why you don't need to overpay to entice him to stay. 9+, like I've read a few times in this thread, for max term is a gross overpayment.

[StuckinFL]

Side note: how great is this team going to be in the next 2 years if JBot keeps this up? I wasn't even this excited when we landed Dahlin or Eichel as I am in this moment. This is what being a sports fan is all about. I love the team he's building. 

[sweetlou]

After the first of the year Skinner will sign and Sabres can look to other options to improve second line. 

I think contract will be eight years. No movement clause for the first five and limited for last three. 

Money will also fluctuate and be top heavy for the first few years and then go down as to help in future contracts for younger players.  AAV will still be good but will help Sabres in real money.

I'm thinking 9, 9, 9, 8, 8, 7, 7, 5.  

So I'm hoping for a 8 year 62 million contract with an AAV of 7.75

Edited December 27, 2018 by sweetlou

[Brawndo]

Dreger was on TSN Toronto talking about Skinner this AM. 

https://www.nicholsonhockey.com/archives/2018/12/27/dreger-skinner-proving-to-be-world-class-finisher